Bilge float switch

[HopCar]

Steve, It looks different from what I remember a Water Witch looking like. I'll be interested to hear how it works out. Two complaints I've heard about other non moving bilge switches are that they can be slow to turn on and then slow to turn off. In the first case I think there is a built in delay so that splashing doesn't turn the pump on and in the second case I think it takes a few extra seconds to dry out after the water drops below the sensor.

 

[JD]

HopCar wrote:Two complaints I've heard about other non moving bilge switches are that they can be slow to turn on and then slow to turn off. In the first case I think there is a built in delay so that splashing doesn't turn the pump on and in the second case I think it takes a few extra seconds to dry out after the water drops below the sensor.

*I used one in a shower pan that had a bilge pump plumbed*directly*over the side exit.* The one I used was from West Marine and it did test by just covering the*sensors (one above the other)*on the front of the case*with your fingers.* It did take a higher amount of water in the pan to start it but depending on how high off of the bottom it was mounted it would get all of the water that the bilge pump was capable of sucking up.**But once the water was below the bottom sensor it shut down instantly.

The only problem I had was that soap scum would collect on the sensors.* But some Clorox wipe down would solve that quite easily.

Keep us posted.


-- Edited by JD on Thursday 17th of November 2011 10:41:30 AM

 

[Forkliftt]

I got the new switch installed Sunday. It was very straight forward but I did have to fabricate an L shaped bracket to mount on. That area of my bilge has a "coving" of sorts that would require me to mount the switch higher than it needed to be. I used a wet rag to test and it came on afetr 10 *seconds and then shut off about the same after removing the wet rag.*

 

[BruceK]

Couple of months back I replaced a Johnson "flipper" type which kept getting stuck but was otherwise still working, with a "Shurflo" (? "NoFlow"), of similar design but seemed much more easily actuated. Came with its own cage which works well, it has not escaped, but it too is getting stuck and not actuating. It freed up ok today, no obvious obstruction, now works but I`m thinking to replace it with a Water Witch or Johnson Ultima,(they cost $80 here), to avoid having exposed moving parts.
Experiences and thoughts most welcome.

 

[FF]

Dont know if its still being made but the most reliable style switch I have seen was an air diaphram that was mounted high and dry.

Only a tube went into the bilge water , so as the water rose the switch would operate.

If a Rule cheapo is used a second higher switch that only operates after the first has failed should also be connected to an alarm.

FF

 

[motion30]

The rule switches do not last and their pumps are no better ,,,,for my money

 

[rwidman]

......... Wonder how to test a switch with no moving parts??

It's an old thread, but the answer is still relevant:

Although you can test a float switch by raising it and you may be able to test a switch with no moving parts by touching the contacts with a wet finger or rag, testing the switch is of little use by itself. You need to test the pump and hose as well. Specifically, you need to test the entire system's ability to remove water from the bilge.

Personally, I was once cleaning my bilge and had filled it with water. The switch came on, the pump came on, but after a few minutes I noticed that the water level was not getting any lower. Investigation showed that the impeller had come off the pump motor. The motor was running but the impeller was not turning.

Other potential problems would be a defective bilge pump, a pump jammed with debris, a blocked strainer, or a blocked hose.

My point? Put water into the bilge with a hose and make sure that the system actoally comes on and removes the water, then turns off. That's the best test.

Why is it that some boaters refuse to leave the dock without two radio checks, yet they never check their bilge pumps?

 

[HopCar]

FF, Both Jabsco and Groco make diaphram switches like you describe. Here's the Jabsco version.

Hydro Air Switch



Ultra reliable bilge switch, which will automatically operate bilge pumps once water level reaches 2 1/4" (55mm).


Model No.: 59400 series

• Air Operated
• No Submerged Electrics
• Safe and Reliable
• Ignition protected (to ISO 8846 Marine)

 

[Forkliftt]

Water Witch switch

I gotta say I test occasionally and the WW switch has no problems. I also used one for my dink pump I fabricated which has worked flawlessly. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s20/keeping-water-out-dink-6403.html

 

[BruceK]

Thanks guys, Jabsco and Groco diaphragm switches are not yet stocked here, so I`m left seeking opinions on submersibles with no external moving parts to jam up ,like WW or Ultima.

 

[Andy G]

Bruce, I have had the same issues over the years, tried different models, all work for a while then they don't. I have always thought that the problem is the environment they work in.

Maybe it would be worth while to buy one of those diaphragm units on Ebay and have it shipped over. Just a thought.

 

[BruceK]

Bruce, I have had the same issues over the years, tried different models, all work for a while then they don't. I have always thought that the problem is the environment they work in.

It is reasonable to expect they work in a bilge, they are designed and sold for nothing else.
I`d not thought of Ebay, might take a look.Can`t be any worse.

 

[Andy G]

BruceK;"It is reasonable to expect they work in a bilge, they are designed and sold for nothing else."

I had an Austin 1800 Mk2 once. It was designed as a car, sold as a car, and was absolute rubbish.

 

[Phil Fill]

As of late I been installing pumps with float switches built in. All the original pumps still have the rule float switch. However, being a worrier/what if, so I installed additional pumps with the built in float switch. Also use a small pump with built in switch in the shower sumps that have worked for the last 10+ years as long as the sump is clean out every once in a while. The shower sump is one nasty environment.

 

[bshanafelt]

I use a water witch in the shower sump - after going through many rule lever type switches - since the change over, no problems - an excellent piece of gear. Only maint. is to wipe the soap scum off the contacts once in the middel of the season.

I use the lever type in the rest of the boat as I have a dry bilge and they do not get much actual use. I will test occasionally with a bucket of water as suggested.

 

[jeffnick]

The Water Witch can be mounted directly on the pump. The first one I bought stayed on until the battery ran down. The replacement has been working well for 3 years.

My boat is trailerable. After I retrieve it and take out the plug, I back it back into the water and watch for the discharge from the pump. My primary bulge pump is the diaphragm type that can suck almost the last drop out...especially since the Witch runs about 10 seconds after the sensor is uncovered.

 

[Brooksie]

Water Witch type of senson: Read carefully the instructions... They don't work correctly on fresh water, or if you have soap, oil, or dog hair in your bilge (among other things) Whomever invented this never had a boat...

Rule and other switches with wires in the bilge: N/G in IMHO

GROCO, JABSCO diaphragm types: super reliable and no wires in the bilge. Make your own out of a washing machine level sensor, that's what they actually use.

 

[JanisK]

BruceK
I have a Water Witch as well and am very pleased with it. As suggested an occasional wipe to clean the contacts and no problems.

 

[BruceK]

BruceK
I have a Water Witch as well and am very pleased with it. As suggested an occasional wipe to clean the contacts and no problems.

Thanks Gemma. I`m still thinking how to go, appreciate the input.
Anyone able to report on Johnson Ultima experience?
(A side advantage, bought online from USA with air freight, a switch is 1/3rd cheaper than at local "Bi-Worth" chandlers. A friend saved $$ buying Aussie made Ronstan parts from a US chandler, despite the 2 Pacific crossings).

 

[jeffnick]

Well...I boat only in fresh water (so far) and I have a dog and my bilge ALWAYS has Joy and usually fabric softener in it and since the original replacement, my Witch has been flawless. I guess I'm just a sucker for no moving parts?

PS
Lemon Fresh Joy lathers in salt water and keeps the bilge clean. The fabric softener contributes to a fresh scent. I'm not an advocate of the effort/expense to keep a bilge totally dehydrated...a little water down there for me is not only inevitable, but a good thing.

 

[psneeld]

Well...I boat only in fresh water (so far) and I have a dog and my bilge ALWAYS has Joy and usually fabric softener in it and since the original replacement, my Witch has been flawless. I guess I'm just a sucker for no moving parts?

PS
Lemon Fresh Joy lathers in salt water and keeps the bilge clean. The fabric softener contributes to a fresh scent. I'm not an advocate of the effort/expense to keep a bilge totally dehydrated...a little water down there for me is not only inevitable, but a good thing.

Inevitable I agree with to a point ....but unless you are a woodie...how can it be a good thing?

 

[Forkliftt]

Water Witch type of senson: Read carefully the instructions... They don't work correctly on fresh water, or if you have soap, oil, or dog hair in your bilge (among other things) Whomever invented this never had a boat...

Rule and other switches with wires in the bilge: N/G in IMHO

GROCO, JABSCO diaphragm types: super reliable and no wires in the bilge. Make your own out of a washing machine level sensor, that's what they actually use.

Brooksie, when I put the rig together for the dink I read the instructions and was also worried about only rain water in the dink. It turned out to be a non issue.

 

[Brooksie]

Brooksie, when I put the rig together for the dink I read the instructions and was also worried about only rain water in the dink. It turned out to be a non issue.

Can't understand... My son killed his battery and nearly sunk his boat with Water Witch. My mooring mate had bad luck with the Johnson switch if the same type.
Bad luck I guess.
But no luck involved with diaphragm type switch, seldom do dish washers or washing machines overfolw any more.

 

[FF]

The only hassle we have found with air style switches is really heavy oil.

If the owner dumps the oil into the bilge at change time , to pump overboard "later", the goop can plug the air line.

A modestly clean bilge is no problem.

 

[BruceK]

Thanks to all, I`ve done the research I can, including at sailnet.com(can get bitchy there too). Batteries kept under water seems odd, but people do like their w/witch. The diaphram type, I wonder about debris lodging in the tube, and a made up branded one might be better than DIY out of washing machine parts; imagine telling your insurer when it fails/boat sinks "I got the switch out of a washing machine I found on the roadside, added a plastic tube...."

 

[psneeld]

Thanks to all, I`ve done the research I can, including at sailnet.com(can get bitchy there too). Batteries kept under water seems odd, but people do like their w/witch. The diaphram type, I wonder about debris lodging in the tube, and a made up branded one might be better than DIY out of washing machine parts; imagine telling your insurer when it fails/boat sinks "I got the switch out of a washing machine I found on the roadside, added a plastic tube...."

Or not having to tell your insurance company anything because something reliable kept your boat pumped out... as opposed to a store bought Rule float switch that has one of the worst reps of any marine product out there...other than boat fuel gauges of course....

 

[FF]

"other than boat fuel gauges of course"

For real failure try the holding tank monitors!

 

[psneeld]

"other than boat fuel gauges of course"

For real failure try the holding tank monitors!

yeah ...but you EXPECT pretty crappy readings from those....

 

[Taras]

I too have replaced 4 Rule float switches over the last 4 years.
In fact, I just replaced (again) my sump pump float switch last week with yet another Rule float switch. The one that failed with the most expensive Rule switch that West Marine carries. I keep my shower sump clean all the time by scrubbing regularly and leaving "CP" in the sump when I am off the boat. The failure is NOT due to it "hanging up".

There has to be a better solution than these P.O.S. (piece of crap) Rule switches.

As a side note, I always keep the packaging and I returned the switch to West Marine. The last one was swapped out for free by West Marine.

 

[Brooksie]

Good point on having to explain to your insurance company that you made your own switch... I was not so much suggesting that you make your own switch rather that the diaphram switch used is the same as found in washing machines and dish washers and close to 100% reliable.

The rule type switches, with wires in the bilge, are disturbing enough when they fail or stick on; but even while they still work (but have bad wires) they can leak current into the bilge water causing stray current damage to engine and running gear. Again, I personally would not have another one if they were giving them away.

As to the small hose on the disphragm type pluging up, not a problem; the hose has a 1" diameter 1-1/2" tall bell on the bottom and the water never rises more than 1/2" in the bell b/4 turning on the pump. So it never touches the small hose itself.