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Old 02-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I'm guessing too, but here's my guess. This presumes that what the Spectra tech support guy told me is correct about adapting to salinity levels. The flow rate of the membranes is proportional to the flow rate of the feed pump. And the feed pump is variable speed. So my guess is that they control the speed of the feed pump to maintain a constant flow rate out of the membranes.
A "traditional" watermaker design is to have a valve in the brine out stream. Pinching the brine out valve increases pressure across the membrane. Forcing h20 molucules through the membrane to produce product water.

To automate this you would use a proportional valve instead of a manual valve.

The sensors required would be membrane pressure, and product water volume.

The raw water salinity value would be no more necessary for the controller than it is for a human performing the same task.

To switch ther product water all you would need is a three way valve or two on-off valves, and a TDS sensor.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:20 AM   #22
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Stage 1 Completed

The battery chargers are now relocated. Man that was a tight spot. Those that do their own work understand you spend more time running down uninspected parts than you do in the actual install. The system seems to be working correctly, but I have a question on the remote for which I will start a different thread.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:49 PM   #23
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Install begins

I am lucky in that I have some room in my engine room. When I relocated the battery chargers to the port side it left a nice wall to mount the control panel and twin filters. I mounted the other filter on the A/C shelve. The big high pressure pump and low pressure pump fit nicely in front of the STBD engine next to the fwd A/C unit. I still need to find a home for the membranes.

So now the plumbing and electrical.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:38 PM   #24
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Great update Tom. Still plenty of work ahead, but it will be worth it. Like the box you found for the Panel. Did you decide to build a manifold for Raw/Fresh washdown? Keep at it.
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:05 PM   #25
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Yes I will be building a manifold. So I have been searching for a place for the two membranes. I found 2 places in the aft cabin.

1. Under the bed next to the water tanks. Con is drilling a 1.5 inch hole in the bullhead. Con is running long 2 high pressure hoses and 1 low pressure line.
2. Cabinet under washer/dryer. It is easy access, but i would be drilling 1.5 hole in the bulkhead. The exhaust pipe also goes through this cabinet. Con would be same as above running 2 high pressure hoses and 1 low pressure line.

3. Mount it in the engine room. All lines would be short and easy install. Big issue: the ER gets hot in the summer. According to the membrane sticker operating temps are 32f to 120f. The install book states " do not install the RO membrane module in an area where the membranes can become heat soaked to temperatures above 120f while in operation and 140f while not in operation, doing so will cook and destroy the RO Membrane. "

My engine room gets pretty warm in the summer. How much I don't know.
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:14 PM   #26
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Why not mount them on the hull, one on each side, outboard of the engine room. Tell people that they are mini rocket launchers. LOL
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:46 PM   #27
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I don't think I'd worry to much about that temperature warning.

I've lost track of the number of boats I've run where the membranes are mounted up on the engine room ceiling right over the engines. (Just like on the boat I currently run.) And the membranes seem to last just fine.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:52 PM   #28
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Dont forget that you will have to get to rhe membranes periodically... Say every three to four years. Also see you have filtered mounted over cables. Toy can lose a lot odd water changing filters. Just something you might want to consider.
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:56 PM   #29
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Why not mount them on the hull, one on each side, outboard of the engine room. Tell people that they are mini rocket launchers. LOL
Paint some flames behind them!!!
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:01 PM   #30
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Thanks for the advice everyone. This morning I ran the engines at 1000rpms for 1.5 hours. Engine room was heated up nicely. I took a laser temp tool with me. The front of the ER was cooler (70f) that the rear (92).

When I shut everything down and let it sit for about 45 minutes, I took some more readings. The front had warmed up to 82f and the rear around 100f. I am still a little concerned about the temps during the summer, but I will keep an eye on it. I just have to learn to duck when entering the ER. Time to read ( they sent me a thumb drive with all the instructions. I took it down and had it printed) and then off to the plumbing.
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:30 PM   #31
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I'm with Bill on the membrane location. The engine room is OK. It's like your batteries, ideally they shouldn't be exposed to the heat of the engine room but that's where most of ours are.

Our pressure vessel/membrane is mounted in the engine room. In 10 years, we're on our third membrane, the first, I sucked in some oil. The second membrane lasted over 5 years with heavy use. We replaced it when the TDS was approaching 500ppm. We cruise in mostly warm climates.
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:27 PM   #32
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Tom, does this mean you can shower? Your number of friends will increase exponentially!

But this riposte aside, will you be able to use river water as RO feed?
Yes, requires adjustments but can be used.
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:33 PM   #33
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H PNW waters are significantly bio-fouled, so the filters plug often.
Sea Recovery actually has "Plankton Filter's" which can be placed before the other filters and filter anything larger than 100 micron. Our boats which were built in the PNW came with that as that's where the need seems to be greatest.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:56 PM   #34
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The Low pressure plumbing is done with the exception of the brine dump. Plan on running that up to a sink drain.

In the pics none of the tubing is tied down yet.

I hung the membranes on the ceiling in the ER. Just have to watch your head when entering or existing the ER.

Waiting on my high pressure hoses to get here. We also have a scheduled haul out at the end of March for annual maintenance and new davit system install.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:44 PM   #35
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You mean the Sink Drain lines leading aft, not the actual sink, Right?
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #36
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You mean the Sink Drain lines leading aft, not the actual sink, Right?
Nope sink drain, but I came up with a different plan. Run the tube to the stbd side and tap into the drain pipe as I have good access behind the battery chargers.

Now the problem is the product (fresh water) blue line. the fresh water line from my tanks come off the bottom of the tank, 210 gal. I am told not to plumb it into the line coming from the tank because as the tank fills it places pressure on the membranes.

So I will have to run the blue line to the tank and tie it in at:

1. tie into the fill line

2. Tie into the vent line

3. Drill and tap into the top of the tank. Not sure how I would do this...
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:34 PM   #37
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Nope sink drain,

Now the problem is the product (fresh water) blue line. the fresh water line from my tanks come off the bottom of the tank, 210 gal. I am told not to plumb it into the line coming from the tank because as the tank fills it places pressure on the membranes.

So I will have to run the blue line to the tank and tie it in at:

1. tie into the fill line

2. Tie into the vent line

3. Drill and tap into the top of the tank. Not sure how I would do this...
Hmmmmm.....mine goes to the "Draw" side (bottom) of the main tank, no problems yet. Just had to remove the check valve.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:36 AM   #38
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Given the choice, I would plumb (tee) the product water to the top of your tank, no back pressure whatsoever. Also, if your system doesn't have a UV filter/light , I would add one to sanitize the product water through that before going to the tank.
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:40 AM   #39
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I like the idea of putting the membranes on the ceiling.
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:00 AM   #40
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Placing it like Crusty Chief, I wonder how much back pressure there actually is. Granted this is the easy way out. I would have to drill a hole through the bulkhead and I'm not sure if I have enough blue line for the run.....I know what I will be doing today.
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