Liveaboards in SE Alaska

[NowhereHome]

Just wondering what all the year-round Alaska folks do to keep the boat warm?

 

[Alaska JD]

Diesel furnaces are most common. The best are hydronic with multiple zones. However, in Wrangell, electricity is cheaper than diesel.

 

[jbloyd]

Diesel furnaces are most common. The best are hydronic with multiple zones. However, in Wrangell, electricity is cheaper than diesel.

That's comforting to know. Our new to us Defever 44 has a Webasto hydronic that we have already used a few times. The temps haven't really been that low here. We are at Semiahmoo, across from Blaine, WA and it's not gotten below freezing yet. I found a slow leak in the diesel pump that is in the combustion chamber. It still works but, I'll have to figure out a fix pretty quickly.

I've watched all of Jim and Rosie's videos and they are well worth the time. They are also very responsive to inquiries. They certainly have it together when it comes to cruising.

 

[Nomad Willy]

jbloyd,
If you're buying a Wabasto make sure you get one big enough. We bought the “Airtop 2000” and wasn’t quite enough. As soon as the outside temp got below 30 it ran all the time. If you get one too big it cycles too often. It’s worth getting right.

 

[jbloyd]

jbloyd,
If you're buying a Wabasto make sure you get one big enough. We bought the “Airtop 2000” and wasn’t quite enough. As soon as the outside temp got below 30 it ran all the time. If you get one too big it cycles too often. It’s worth getting right.

Thanks for that information but, as stated, the unit came with the boat. We are not buying another one. At least, not yet. If the leak in the diesel pump can't be fixed we might have to buy another ignition chamber unit (if that's possible). But, we aren't there yet.

BTW, the PO and his wife have a place in Concrete where they live in their travel unit, when they are not at their regular home in AZ.

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

Introduce yourselves to Bill and Donna on Denali Rose, a 43’ Nauticat. They are currently in Petersburg but will be in Wrangell around the end of the month. I think they are on C dock in Heritage Harbor. Bill and Donna have lived aboard in SE Alaska and been based in Wrangell for a number of years. Very knowledgeable and helpful... We’ll be based in Heritage Harbor, living aboard Arctic Jade, an OA 42 this spring. Currently having some maintenance completed in Anacortes. I look forward to meeting you next spring.

Sounds great. Looking forward to meeting, and have a great cruise up. We will go find Bill and Donna at the end of the month as well. Jim

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

Just wondering what all the year-round Alaska folks do to keep the boat warm?

We have two sources of heat. A 24,000 BTU forced air diesel furnace and 3 - 240 Volt Cruise Air Reverse cycle units. All can be used anytime, either at the dock, while cruising or while at anchor.

It works well and we have no trouble keeping the boat at 68 degrees, even in below freezing temperatures.

Jim

 

[markpierce]

Wished my bow's steel plate was carried lower, at least as low as floating docks.

 

[MurrayM]

Wished my bow's steel plate was carried lower, at least as low as floating docks.

Maybe a Trireme bow modification?

 

[ksanders]

Just wondering what all the year-round Alaska folks do to keep the boat warm?

I have three Wallas forced air furnaces on my boat totaling 30,000 BTU/hour.

What I like about the Wallas forced air units is that they bring in a portion of the make up air from the outside, keeping things fresh.

 

[Southeast37]

We are also in Sitka, Ak. Although we haven't moved on to our boat yet (needs more work)
we plan to! we will be operating around the sitka area for the winter. Myia K is our vessels name.

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

We are also in Sitka, Ak. Although we haven't moved on to our boat yet (needs more work)
we plan to! we will be operating around the sitka area for the winter. Myia K is our vessels name.

Awesome! We have friends and YouTube Subscribers in Sitka, so we will certainly try to get out their when the weather permits this winter. We were there in August for a week and have always really enjoyed Sitka and the trip out Peril Strait.

When we know when we will be there we will reach out.

Thanks,
Jim and Rosy
M/V Sea Venture
www.youtube.com/CruisingSeaVenture

 

[Salishseer]

What are to calculated benefits for your boat with the bulbous bow. I see these in shipyards, but not that I recall in a smaller (<75/) M/V. Did you retain a marine engineer/designer and model the addition? Interested to know... Am an oceanographer from UW.

Mel - Salishseer

 

[Salishseer]

Hi Kevin - I am shopping for a new to be boat for cruising BC and SE. What made you choose the Bayliner 4788? I like it, but the 4588 is almost identical.... What made your decision?

Thanks,
Mel - Salishseer

 

[Nomad Willy]

I remember seeing people living on big open skiffs in Juneau early 70’s.
The’d make some hoops and sticks to support the visquien (sp?) plastic mostly transparent. Worked in the rain and snow.

One of the prettiest things I’ve ever seen is Harris Harbor at night in the winter with all the lights showing through the snow and plastic scattered here and there throughout the harbor. The lit up snow whether the light was coming through windows or just plain plastic made the harbor beautiful.

 

[ksanders]

Hi Kevin - I am shopping for a new to be boat for cruising BC and SE. What made you choose the Bayliner 4788? I like it, but the 4588 is almost identical.... What made your decision?

Thanks,
Mel - Salishseer

For me the 4788 is just a progression in both terms of issues/bugs worked out, and changes in technology.

For example the 4588 was constructed using the then standard technology of wood deck cores between fiberglass layers. The 4788 being later years utilized a foam core between fiberglass layers.


Not a darn thing wrong with the 4588's. They were very good boats. Our budget just allowed for a newer boat that took advantage of the things the boating industry learned and continues to learn.

I suspect that a boat, and brand boat, built today would by it's very nature be better than a similar boat built 30 or 40 years ago.

 

[Salishseer]

Thanks Kevin.... I have not seen that distinction in construction, anywhere else. Pretty important in my book. I had a LaFitte 44 designed by Bob Perry (yes, that is a sailboat), but with airex-cored hull and decks - strong, no condensation, and quieter.

I apreciate your feedback. Again, thank you,
Mel

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

What are to calculated benefits for your boat with the bulbous bow. I see these in shipyards, but not that I recall in a smaller (<75/) M/V. Did you retain a marine engineer/designer and model the addition? Interested to know... Am an oceanographer from UW.

Mel - Salishseer

Mel,
We are working on detailed YouTube video (I think it will be a 3 part series) that will go over the bulbous bow project start to finish.

Our work was done by Keller Fiberglass in Wrangell Alaska (they have installed many bulbs on boats in the 50 - 65 foot range - mostly commercial fish boats) in combination with the University of British Columbia which has done a lot of research on bulbous bows and I believe most of the tank testing associated with design work. Between the two they worked out the exact calculations for size, position, weight, etc.

I think lots of the research and assumption has been that a bulb is installed to increase range. In our size, and our main purpose of installing the bulb was to reduce pitching.

So far, our sea trials have determined:
1) it has reduced pitching by 50-60%, as measured by a digital inclinoscope we have onboard. So far, our testing has been in seas up to 8-10 foot range. This alone makes us conclude that the project was a great success.
2) It appears, though more sea trials are needed, we have increased our average speed by about .5 of a knot, which is a bonus. I believe this has happened because the stern of the boat no longer squats as we increase our speed. In fact, when going from 2 knots to 7.5 knots our bow drops 1.5 degrees on average.

We have not yet felt the loud banging that has been reported by some boats when the bulb lifts partly out of the water in larger seas. This could be because our bow is quite thick. the fiberglass at the front of Sea Venture's hull is approximately 5" thick. We have not had the bulb completely out of the water yet, but this would take very large seas. The fishing boat owners we have talked with say that when the bulb comes completely out of the water they know it's getting rough enough to pull gear. When ask what those seas are, they are talking 12-16 foot seas with a period of under 8 seconds - well, we are not planning on "pleasure" cruising in those conditions.

Hope this helps.

Besides our YouTube series on the project, we will add a lot more information on our website over time. All this video and website stuff is just a hobby, so patience may be required!

Jim Addington
M/V Sea Venture
www.CruisingSeaVenture.com

 

[Salishseer]

Jim, thanks for the really complete answer. I had assumed it was mostly for speed, but had not considered the reduction in pitch.

Do you think the reduction is due to the added weight far forward, or by the fact that the bulb is probably burying itself in the steeper seas, and so the rocking is reduced?

I'll look forward to the videos on it. Smooth sailing,
Mel

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

Jim, thanks for the really complete answer. I had assumed it was mostly for speed, but had not considered the reduction in pitch.

Do you think the reduction is due to the added weight far forward, or by the fact that the bulb is probably burying itself in the steeper seas, and so the rocking is reduced?

I'll look forward to the videos on it. Smooth sailing,
Mel

Mel,

My understanding from the naval architect the reduced pitching is the result of the bulb shape plus the weight of the water on top of the bulb when cruising. Our bulb as a 38" diameter. Compared to the knife edge before, that is a lot of water that has to be displaced to push the bow down. The same goes for lifting the bulb up. It has to displace the water running on top of the bulb. Ours sits about 1' under water when cruising in flat water, so to move upward it has to displace about 850 additional pounds of water to lift up.

The bulb itself weights right in at 1,300 lbs. It's all fiberglass - about 3.5" thick. It has a 2" hole drilled in the top and bottom, so it's filled with sea water.

Everyone I have talked to that has a bulb on a this size boat has reported the same results related to both pitching and increased speed.

It's all quite interesting to me.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Salishseer]

OK, Jim... one small point that you added did NOT dawn on me. Never thought about it, but assumed bulbous bows are HOLLOW/sealed. Not intuitive, upon reflection. That completely explains the reduction of pitch...given the mass of water within the bulb.

Live and learn. Thanks,
Mel

 

[Nomad Willy]

Re the reduction in pitch I would think .. would mostly be the resistance of the round tube to rising or falling. Example .. if you had same sized tube vertical and tried to move it almost instantly horizontally. With zero weight it would present huge resistance to lateral movement. But the weight would dampen it. With so much force I wonder why the BB don’t break off in big seas.

 

[Salishseer]

Ah, good question, Eric.

For Jim... I wonder how far into the hull the BB penetrates, and how is it supported?

Mel

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

Ah, good question, Eric.

For Jim... I wonder how far into the hull the BB penetrates, and how is it supported?

Mel

Great questions. I think you will really enjoy seeing the process of the install once I'm done with the videos. We did a time lapse of all 14 days of production so you can see it all come together.

A little explanation of the process should be helpful.

They started with a 12' - 38" diameter tube (21% of the maximum beam of Sea Venture) - 1.75" thick solid fiberglass - it weighed about 1250 lbs.

A pattern of the hull was then made and basically a large "V" cut into the tube until it slid back on the hull to it's final resting place.

There are no hull penetrations.

The full 12' of tube is still there running down the sides of the hull. 42" sticks out the front. The rest, 7.5' runs along the sides of hull. This leaves about 15' of connection surface running down each side of the hull, or 30 LF total.

Then the serious fiberglass work began. A total of 22 layers of cloth were laid up going about 18" out onto the hull for this entire 30 LF of length on the outside, and 10 layers of cloth were laid up on the inside. The end result was the final tube thickness is right at 3.5"

The domed front was separately made and then fiber glassed to the front of the tube in the same manner. It is 3.5 to 5" thick.

Inside the bulb is a 1.5" thick fiberglass vertical panel fiber glassed to the inside top and inside bottom of the tube and the leading edge of the hull. Because it curves back on the lower portion, this vertical panel connection to the hull is approximately 5' long. It has 15 layers of fiberglass on each side as well, and adds additional vertical strength to the whole system.

As I mentioned before, the bulb has a hole drilled in the top and bottom to allow it to be full of sea water. The vertical panel also has holes in so both sides are filled.

Doing a lot of math I don't understand, the naval architect is completely confident no seas can damage or loosen it.

A side note about the strength. On our same dock here in Wrangell, AK is a beautiful commercial fishing boat - a 58' Delta, Pacific Sea. They have a bulb as well, installed the same way here in Wrangell. Even though the owner has been fishing these waters for 40 years he had an oops. He thought the auto pilot was set . . . but it wasn't. While not looking up about 6 miles south of Wrangell, he drove up onto the rocks at 9 knots, putting the front of the 75 ton boat out of the water. Not surprising, it tore the front of the bulb apart. Of note, the bulb to hull connection was not compromised. After determining he was not taking on water he was dragged off the rocks and under his own power came back to Wrangell, where the boat was hauled. While the bulb had to be completely rebuild, there was only gouges in the hull itself. He will tell you without the bulb he knows he would have lost the boat.

Hope all that helps.

Jim

 

[Ken E.]

Jim, slight thread shift.....you have paravane stabilizers. Do you use them often? Do they take the roll out? All the commercial trollers have them in SE, hooked up to their poles.

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

Jim, slight thread shift.....you have paravane stabilizers. Do you use them often? Do they take the roll out? All the commercial trollers have them in SE, hooked up to their poles.

Ken,
Yes, we use them all the time, but then again, we do a lot of ocean travel.
They work extremely well. Example: In a 10' beam sea with a 10 second period they will take a 40 degree roll each way to around 8 degrees. If we are cruising in a 3-4 foot chop that may cause of roll of 8-10 degrees each way, they will put the roll to under 2 degrees. I would also note that the poles out without the fish in the water is a benefit as well. It does not reduce the roll, but slows the roll period quite a bit. The same as a tight rope walker with his long pole. We have had the paravanes in the water for as long as a month at a time.

The performance of paravanes is directly related to the size of the system and the length of the poles. Our system is not small - the poles are 26' long, 5" diameter Aluminum. The system was designed by Johnathan Moore, a naval architect in Port Townsend who has extensive experience with paravane systems. It was built and installed by the Port Townsend Shipwrights Co-Op. We did do an 8 part YouTube video series on the project. If interested, you can find the series detailed on our website. Also on the website we have a Q&A section where an entire portion is devoted to the paravanes. I answer lots of questions about why paravanes, how they work, etc. The website is: CruisinigSeaVenture.com The website is new, so any feedback on it would be greatly appreciated.

Hope that helps.
Jim

 

[Ken E.]

Thanks for the response....I was just interested in how paravanes worked for you in a general sense rather than wanting to install them. Will check out your website.