From Liveaboard Motor Sailor To PNW Trawler

[AlanT]

Tender: You are often limited by the size and range of your tender, so we want something that can handle beaching over rocks, barnacles and Oyster shells for daily foraging, seaworthy and dependable… Is their a better alternative to a RIB, for the PNW?

I'll just pick up this one topic. I am in the PNW and have friends that have strayed from RIBs to alum and wood but they came back because it is a real pain when your dink bashes your boat at anchor! That's not their only quibble but it is a common one. I favor a RIB with added protection for our rocky shores. I have had two Rendovas, an 11' and currently a 14'. They have a stable fibreglass deck over the top of the tubes and some have an arch to grab, so they are easy and safe to board. The tubes come off easily if ever needed for refurb and I have had a sacrificial rubber "grounding pad" installed (glued) under the bows of both. I frequently let the dink up onto rocky shores for the dogs evenings and mornings and the sacrificial pad is not yet showing any signs of wear.

Overall its a great dink and a shame they don't build them anymore. You can pick one up used and get the tubes renewed and refurbing the tub is pretty straightforward if that's what you are into. Sounds like an exciting time for you. Have fun ~A

 

[Changes]

Hi Kuya Nick,


My wife is a Filipina and we travel often between Baltimore and Manila. I had a 53' Hatteras Motor Yacht before buying our 44' Nauticat Motorsailor schooner. Your larger motor sailor is lovely and you will find it hard to duplicate. The Hatteras 58' LRC might interest you, as it has a walk in engine room and there are tons of space everywhere on this boat. If I the money, it would be on my bucket list. Most of the modern trawlers are truly very expensive. We are happy with our 44'. The 58' is beyond my budget, but for you it might give more space than you now have. Nothing wrong with bringing you vessel to the PNW either. Perhaps my Filipina wife or I could be helpful to the 2 of you in some way. And yes, there are plenty of Filipinos where you will be moving. This means EVERYTHING to a Filipina (ask me how I know). You may reach me here or forkliftman1952@gmail.com or 410-913-2330 usa

Salamat Po !!! Shipmate Michael

Hi Michael,
Never been to Baltimore but from YT bloggers seems like some beautiful and historic cruising .

The PNW was my home until after Uni and the early days of my commercial sea time and marine college. So it will be interesting to see all the changes when we visit my siblings next summer and hopefully look at available Trawlers.

While Zaida will be happy wherever I am, as long as it is on a boat!
...her real preference to our future location ... is what I hope to discern next year.

Thats why I started a new thread about getting a chance to be a guest on a Trawler next summer in return for hosting on board StarGazer here in the Philippines, next winter .

Goal being to give Zaida a real taste of PNW boating experience with owners already doing it

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s36/taste-your-cruising-life-57644.html

After 14 years together I realize that her happiness is my happiness, but Filipinos are often too polite to come out and say
...this sucks!..
.... so you need to tread carefully when making life changes for both. [emoji7]

 

[slowgoesit]

Hi Slowgoesit, Your boat really caught my eye....
can you point me to any links that would show layout and interior?
I did find one for a boat called Tortuga

Thanks Nick

Tortuga, from what I have seen is similar, but different . . . does that make sense? I don't have the exact layout available right now, but here is a link to the selling ad that should give you the basic idea. Rear deck to pilot house, same level, down into main salon/galley/bar area, down forward to two staterooms and head. Down aft to master stateroom, master head, pantry, and entry into engine room. Engine room is stand up, and under most of the salon . . . I LOVE the stand up engine room.

There is another, similar boat coming up for sale this week, kind of a "soft sale" in the Seattle area. Also has a Gardner, not sure which engine, paravanes, etc. I think the asking price will be in the $225k range. Contact Eric of Fairhaven Yachts in LaConner if interested. Tell Eric he owes me a coffee cup!

We would love you host you two on the boat next year, but we are unsure if we will still be in the PNW then, as we are planning on departing to Sea of Cortez at some point. Plans are fluid though . . . Tentatively planning on leaving PNW around this time next year, so maybe doable . . . Would also love to check out your boat and that part of the world in early 2022!

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/lis...fairhavenyachtsales&&ywo=fairhavenyachtsales&


Okay, I did find some layout pics . . . Not all of the specs are correct, as some of them are from design 96, not 118 as built. The design also shows twin engines instead of single, and tankage etc, are not all correct.

 

[Rob]

Living aboard in the PNW

We have cruised extensively in the PNW having spent three decades in Alaska and another in the PNW. Having a dry boat is of paramount importance, and a darn good heating system is the only answer! Recently we moved off of our KK42 after 18 months of living aboard while building a new house. A couple of observations from actual long term experience is that you will be constantly dealing with heat and condensation issues! Yes, there are ways to deal with this. If you’re tied to a dock, probably the most economical way to heat is to use electricity, electricity in the PNW is cheap but not so much so in Alaska. Hydronic heating system can be very expensive to maintain and they do drink up the fuel, run a Wabasto hydronic system for the winter and you’ll be amazed as to how much fuel you’ve used. I’d suggest a good Dickinson heater with a water heater coil addition and an air exchanger installed on the stack. I recently installed this system on our boat. We’ve had a Dickinson heater install on our past four boats. It will provide you with very dry heat at the lowest cost with the best reliability. As for a dingy, I much prefer a Lund over anything else. Have you ever seen what a bear can do to a RIB! Bears don’t eat aluminum and neither do barnicals. Attach a string of fishing net floats along the sides of your skiff and you’ll have no issues with scratching up the hull of your main ship. I’ve been using a 12 foot Lund fitted with a 15hp two cycle(much lighter than a 4 cycle) for about twenty years. I might add that prawn and crab pots and dogs raise hell on inflatables. You probably don’t want to drag your inflatable down the beach across the rocks and shells after the tide leaves you stranded. Aluminum will take a beating and still stay afloat, just add Duct Tape!

 

[Changes]

Tortuga, from what I have seen is similar, but different . . . does that make sense? I don't have the exact layout available right now, but here is a link to the selling ad that should give you the basic idea. Rear deck to pilot house, same level, down into main salon/galley/bar area, down forward to two staterooms and head. Down aft to master stateroom, master head, pantry, and entry into engine room. Engine room is stand up, and under most of the salon . . . I LOVE the stand up engine room.

There is another, similar boat coming up for sale this week, kind of a "soft sale" in the Seattle area. Also has a Gardner, not sure which engine, paravanes, etc. I think the asking price will be in the $225k range. Contact Eric of Fairhaven Yachts in LaConner if interested. Tell Eric he owes me a coffee cup!

We would love you host you two on the boat next year, but we are unsure if we will still be in the PNW then, as we are planning on departing to Sea of Cortez at some point. Plans are fluid though . . . Tentatively planning on leaving PNW around this time next year, so maybe doable . . . Would also love to check out your boat and that part of the world in early 2022!

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/lis...fairhavenyachtsales&&ywo=fairhavenyachtsales&


Okay, I did find some layout pics . . . Not all of the specs are correct, as some of them are from design 96, not 118 as built. The design also shows twin engines instead of single, and tankage etc, are not all correct.

Hi Slowgoesit,
Thanks for the inboard profile and general arrangement plan. Great boat and amazing similarities with my own as a rugged go anywhere craft.

Ours was also designed for canals and actually has a Double Bottom.
This was originally for Skin Cooling and runs from Fwd cabins to Aft hallway. Later switched to raw water for the Tropics, when they repowered with a Perkins.
Still comforting to know that I have that extra protection when I am puttering around uncharted areas.

You can see from my profile and GAP, that layout is very similar, except I have way less tankage (2,500 litrs-660 USG) and tapered ends. I call my engine room "crouching tiger" but for a sailboat it's pretty good!

I think if I were contemplating voyages other than coastal in a trawler, your choice would be very appealing, but now, I only need inside passage range and moderate tankage.

What does bother me about the twin engine trawlers for PNW, is how exposed the props are to deadheads and debris. Yours is very well protected as is my own.
Is this a valid worry for twin engine displacement trawlers in PNW?

 

[Changes]

We have cruised extensively in the PNW having spent three decades in Alaska and another in the PNW. Having a dry boat is of paramount importance, and a darn good heating system is the only answer! Recently we moved off of our KK42 after 18 months of living aboard while building a new house. A couple of observations from actual long term experience is that you will be constantly dealing with heat and condensation issues! Yes, there are ways to deal with this. If you’re tied to a dock, probably the most economical way to heat is to use electricity, electricity in the PNW is cheap but not so much so in Alaska. Hydronic heating system can be very expensive to maintain and they do drink up the fuel, run a Wabasto hydronic system for the winter and you’ll be amazed as to how much fuel you’ve used. I’d suggest a good Dickinson heater with a water heater coil addition and an air exchanger installed on the stack. I recently installed this system on our boat. We’ve had a Dickinson heater install on our past four boats. It will provide you with very dry heat at the lowest cost with the best reliability. As for a dingy, I much prefer a Lund over anything else. Have you ever seen what a bear can do to a RIB! Bears don’t eat aluminum and neither do barnicals. Attach a string of fishing net floats along the sides of your skiff and you’ll have no issues with scratching up the hull of your main ship. I’ve been using a 12 foot Lund fitted with a 15hp two cycle(much lighter than a 4 cycle) for about twenty years. I might add that prawn and crab pots and dogs raise hell on inflatables. You probably don’t want to drag your inflatable down the beach across the rocks and shells after the tide leaves you stranded. Aluminum will take a beating and still stay afloat, just add Duct Tape!

Hi Rob,
Great to have your experienced insight and I couldn’t agree with you any more, about a Lund versus a Rib for rough use in the jungles, when catching supper.

Heat and Condensation is my biggest concern about year-round liveaboard in PNW, especially If I stayed with my present steel boat.

When first considering the option to bring my motor sailor to Canada last year, research found this local company ITR whose equipment seemed less delicate, easier to maintain than the European Hydronic heaters. Speaking with liveaboards in Alaska who use it, they said it was a great system

So I started a thread on Cruiser Forum, (I’m Pelagic) to get some experienced insight, while at the same time designing a system with ITR.
This is the link to the heating review:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f124/itr-marine-heater-review-and-installation-233349.html

What came out of it was a design for a 4800 BTU/hr. Hydronic system from ITR ($15k + shipping and installation), which was put on hold due to Covid.

Now, with us still waiting for borders to open, my decision process to relocate my motor sailor to PNW or buy a Trawler there is still ongoing, with cold weather comfort still being a priority.

If you were designing a heating system for a fiberglass trawler for off grid use, what would be you system choices?

 

[koliver]

Now, with us still waiting for borders to open, my decision process to relocate my motor sailor to PNW or buy a Trawler there is still ongoing, with cold weather comfort still being a priority.

If you were designing a heating system for a fiberglass trawler for off grid use, what would be you system choices?

While there are modern systems that may work very well, none are as simple as a Dikinson Diesel stove. Talk to them about their efficiency and reliability. You will find they excel at both. For shoulder season and winter boating, nothing nicer than returning to your always warm and dry boat.
In boats where the layout demands, a second unit, designed for space heating only, also excels.

 

[Jeff F]

I installed an ITR Chinook system from scratch last year, in part due to your thread on CF. My boat is 50' FG with no insulation and no hull coring. I put in 5 zones with 49k btu total radiators.

After a winter in Ontario I'm happy with the system. During the coldest weather, about -20C, the boiler was running 12-14 hours a day to maintain 18-20C interior temp.

Moisture control here is less an issue than in the PNW, so can't comment on that. But I can reaffirm your research on the Chinook.

I started out without speed controls and found the 16k fans a bit loud at full speed. Added speed control and low speed is unobtrusive and effective. High speed warms up quickly.

My one minor complaint is that the electric and diesel heat cycles on the same thermostat. I had imagined using using the electric as base heat when plugged in, and having diesel set to come on as supplementary. It can't be set up that way. Not an issue for off grid.

My total material cost using all ITR sourced components was about Cdn$10k incl HST.

Welcome to the forum. I don't think I posted to any of your earlier threads, but think you could be happy with your boat there.

Jeff

 

[Changes]

Hi Jeff
Thanks for the welcome.
This Forum has a kinder, gentler feeling to it....which I like.
May have something to do with not having too many sailboat racers here! [emoji1]

Great to hear another endorsement for the ITR and Ontario winters are certainly a test..
Strange that there is not a way to have the electric on as the main and automatically supplement with diesel if unable to maintain a set temp

 

[slowgoesit]

What does bother me about the twin engine trawlers for PNW, is how exposed the props are to deadheads and debris. Yours is very well protected as is my own.
Is this a valid worry for twin engine displacement trawlers in PNW?


All my previous cruising in PNW was in a single screw, no bow thruster. I did hit one log, T-boned at night, it rolled down the hull making contact on the keel, and on the turn of the hull. Probably 5" or 6" in diameter. I felt the hit, heard the rumble of the boat riding up over it as it moved down the hull, but I was on the back deck, and reached the throttle/shift, just in time for the rumble to change to a bang . . . then the vibrations . . . Bent the 1.5" bronze shaft about 3/8" right at the taper, and dinged one blade of the prop . . . ended up replacing shaft with a SS one and having the prop tuned.

Anyway, to address your question, if I had been in a twin screw, odds are I would have still dinged a prop/and or shaft. It's not a big concern of mine though, as for the most part, I'm going to be sticking to daylight hours only for cruising in the inland waters because of concern for flotsam.

I think your boat would be exceptional for the PNW. Hydraunic heat, forced air, or Dickerson stove are pretty much a one time cost, and amortized over the years of ownership isn't really that significant an expense, especially if you can do the install yourself.
Note: Our boat also has two cruiseair heat pumps, so that will be convenient when tied up to shore power, or underway, as we have a hydraulic powered 12kw generator that runs anytime the main engine is running. Enjoy!

 

[Capt. Jon]

I installed an ITR Chinook system from scratch last year, in part due to your thread on CF. My boat is 50' FG with no insulation and no hull coring. I put in 5 zones with 49k btu total radiators.

After a winter in Ontario I'm happy with the system. During the coldest weather, about -20C, the boiler was running 12-14 hours a day to maintain 18-20C interior temp.

Moisture control here is less an issue than in the PNW, so can't comment on that. But I can reaffirm your research on the Chinook.

I started out without speed controls and found the 16k fans a bit loud at full speed. Added speed control and low speed is unobtrusive and effective. High speed warms up quickly.

My one minor complaint is that the electric and diesel heat cycles on the same thermostat. I had imagined using using the electric as base heat when plugged in, and having diesel set to come on as supplementary. It can't be set up that way. Not an issue for off grid.

My total material cost using all ITR sourced components was about Cdn$10k incl HST.

Welcome to the forum. I don't think I posted to any of your earlier threads, but think you could be happy with your boat there.

Jeff

Maybe something like this would solve your separation of both heating sources. It has two zones.

https://cdn3.volusion.com/dxylq.nruds/v/vspfiles/photos/71-5146-2.jpg?v-cache=1604985837

 

[koliver]

What does bother me about the twin engine trawlers for PNW, is how exposed the props are to deadheads and debris. Yours is very well protected as is my own.
Is this a valid worry for twin engine displacement trawlers in PNW?


All my previous cruising in PNW was in a single screw, no bow thruster. I did hit one log, T-boned at night, it rolled down the hull making contact on the keep, and on the turn of the hull. Probably 5" or 6" in diameter. I felt the hit, heard the rumble of the boat riding up over it as it moved down the hull, but I was on the back deck, and reached the throttle/shift, just in time for the rumble to change to a bang . . . then the vibrations . . . Bent the 1.5" bronze shaft about 3/8" right at the taper, and dinged one blade of the prop . . . ended up replacing shaft with a SS one and having the prop tuned.

Anyway, to address your question, if I had been in a twin screw, odds are I would have still dinged a prop/and or shaft. It's not a big concern of mine though, as for the most part, I'm going to be sticking to daylight hours only for cruising in the inland waters because of concern for flotsam.

I think your boat would be exceptional for the PNW. Hydraunic heat, forced air, or Dickerson stove are pretty much a one time cost, and amortized over the years of ownership isn't really that significant an expense, especially if you can do the install yourself.
Note: Our boat also has two cruiseair heat pumps, so that will be convenient when tied up to shore power, or underway, as we have a hydraulic powered 12kw generator that runs anytime the main engine is running. Enjoy!

The debris on the water in years past has given BC waters a well deserved bad reputation that will take generations to end. Decades ago, the forestry industry had to stop putting all their logs in flat booms, where they were susceptible to boom failures that saw a booming (pun intended) beachcombing industry. Big enough to spawn a well loved TV series based in Gibsons.
That all changed when the Provincial stumpage changed from measuring at the mill to measuring at the sort (when the logs are put into the water, or onto a barge, now, instead of when pulled out of the water, then) The logic was, if you have to pay stumpage on a log, don't lose it.
Now, you will still find logs in the water, but their sources are much more limited. High river levels still pull whole trees off their banks, Beaches littered with old and very old logs still lose them at high tide stormy weather, environmental events such as the recent Bute Inlet glacier failure still bring trees to the ocean in high numbers, but as a general statement, there are fewer trees in the water now than a decade ago, and orders of magnitude fewer than 2 or 3 decades ago.

You still need to keep a good watch, but you should be doing so at all times. The real difference is that now a trip that lasts more than a few hours can be made without seeing anything that needs to be avoided, unlike in times past.

 

[Airstream345]

Bullfrog at bullfrogboats.com are pretty popular here in the PNW, for the reasons you mentioned. I have one, powered by a 20HP 4-stroke.

I'll co-sign this one. We had a 10' bullfrog and it's perfect for rocky PNW beaches. I would recommend a larger model as the 10 was very limited in capacity and interior volume. They are also quite heavy so your davit setup will define your upper size/weight limit.

We ended up selling the BF and going with a different dingy as our mission required something else of lighter weight. I do miss just driving up onto the beach and not giving it a second thought.

Also, we own a 54' single. They do exist!

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Yep, and the other thing I didn't like about the 48's was that to go from cabin to aft deck you had to exit midships, then walk back . . .kind of like having two living spaces. No yelling out the back door to the person on the aft deck, or yelling forward . . . . just our personal preference though. Nice boats, and we would have been happy with Nomad, or one of the other ones we looked. . . .

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s69/defever-48-trawler-1982-ctf-built-43604.html

Yep, Nomad.

 

[slowgoesit]

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s69/defever-48-trawler-1982-ctf-built-43604.html

Yep, Nomad.

I really LUSTED for that boat! But I think I like the one we ended up buying more!

 

[Changes]

That Nomad looks great.
On design tradeoffs since I've yet to walk thru a few.

What are the pros and cons of a "Raised Pilothouse "

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Pros: separation from rest of living area.

Cons: separation from rest of living area.

 

[slowgoesit]

Pros: Generally a raised pilot house (RPH) provides better visibility all around while still in a interior space. Having a fly bridge on top of the pilot house helps even more, but adds more weight higher up.

Cons: Some boats require you to go out on deck in order to get to the RPH.