Liveaboard advice for a novice

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Lastly, going upriver in any river is not fun.
To do it for any length of time more then ONE day is the reason you've not heard of anyone doing the loop backwards.

Good luck and welcome to the camp

Going up the Columbia is a blast and fun

 

[Ctsearay]

I work on boats that people bought as bargains. Living a minimalist life style isn't for me. My boat has all the amenities of a small home including zoned air, washer and drier, and real household appliances. I think if you want to last , you'll need to not make too many sacrifices. Dragging your laundry to a launderette gets real old fast.

Scary I like your post. I saw your post on the Newbies thread. You mentioned that you weren't going to give up certain things. My wife and I are looking to be live aboards in 6-10 years and I've been making a list of things that are "got to haves" so far its a full size shower, toilet, refrigerator queen/kingsize bed, washer dryer, zoned AC & heat and a watermaker. What else could you recommend? Thanks in advance

 

[caltexflanc]

Scary I like your post. I saw your post on the Newbies thread. You mentioned that you weren't going to give up certain things. My wife and I are looking to be live aboards in 6-10 years and I've been making a list of things that are "got to haves" so far its a full size shower, toilet, refrigerator queen/kingsize bed, washer dryer, zoned AC & heat and a watermaker. What else could you recommend? Thanks in advance

Why the water maker? Do a total cost of ownership analysis first. That is, assuming you will be buying water somewhere like the islands and your usage thereof. I was already to install one, but could never get it to pencil out unless we were pretty much full time in pay-for-water waters.

Have you done any cruising yet? So many issues are personal choice, no right or wrong answer.

By the way, after years of chartering boats of different sizes and configurations, we too had all your items other than the WM and never regretted it; quite the contrary. More importantly, begin to understand all the ergonomics (and potential economics) of handling, running, repairing and maintaining the boat. Creature comforts are nice, but if the boat is a misery for you to go boating in, only provide some solace as she becomes a dock queen.

 

[Ctsearay]

Hi George,

I was figuring the water maker for more self sufficiency and longer showers LOL. The personal choice items are what make it more liveaboardable for the both of us. And keeping the repairs to a dull roar is optimum!

 

[caltexflanc]

If keeping repairs to a dull roar is a goal, than a watermaker is not such a great idea. They are high maintenance items. But again, it completely depends on where you are boating and for how long, in some cruising scenarios I could definitely see the utility.

Living aboard full time on moorings or at anchor, 350 gallons (plus 30 in the water heater) lasted us a long time, we could stretch it out to 3 or 4 weeks even with a dishwasher and clothes washer on board. One of the best upgrades we made to the boat was a Watercounter, which keeps very precise track of what is left in the tank. Thus we learned what various lengths of shower used, or settings on the washers.

 

[FF]

>As for the journey, I can see how that could get very tiring on a slow boat.<

Really depends on your Karma.

Some love the months actually using the boat on a cruise.

However the time can be cut in half with a faster boat.

MONEY will be the key .

If 1500 miles requires 1500+ gal of fuel , will the half time journey become too expensive?

The first few years it is better to contemplate a marina for the sitting season , and anchoring out for the transit period.

All hook, All the time , is a delight , but most owners and boats need time (and cash) to get the boat in an operating condition that works for the owners newest lifestyle.

Lighting , cooking , heat , ventilation are all different away from the power hose.

 

[Marlinmike]

I like the mission, just think some expectations might end up being adjusted and you would have to ask yourself if we didn't want to bring the vessel back and forth then what?
My dream for retiring was house in Maine and condo in Florida and take the boat back and forth, did one trip to Florida and Bahamas then back and I can tell you we loved the trip, but have no interest in repeating the journey, couldn't image doing it twice a year, yea I know people do it, just not me, and coming from Mich is even a longer trip.

 

[Bilgewater]

I will chime in and pass on the advice I received several years ago - "Don't buy the biggest boat you can afford, buy the smallest you can live on". We have a 36' Gulfstar that needed work, and we spent two years getting her ready. We spent this summer on the Erie Canal, and loved it! Had to replace a injection pump on one of the Perkins, but wasn't surprised as it was 40 years old. We'll replace the other one next year before we leave again.
I considered the compost toilet, but went with an RV style gravity toilet atop a 30 gallon holding tank. Uses about a pint of fresh water, and is simple. One moving part, and gravity hasn't failed me yet.
Fresh water is easy to replace wherever you go in the US. Some use bottled water to drink, but we haven't had any issues with "town" water yet.
Going slow is something you have to get used to. Out-running weather isn't an option at 7 kts. Our biggest challenge is to have the patience to wait out the weather on Lake Erie for ideal conditions. Hard to do sometimes. The worst thing to do is try and meet a schedule. You'll find yourself pushing your comfort/safety limits to "be there by Thursday".
We sold the house and most things in it, and rent an apartment for now. Best thing we ever did. It is liberating to get rid of "stuff" that you accumulate over time.
Make a want/need list. Then do research, ask around, and be brutally honest with yourself. Many "needs" are really wants, and can hold you back from getting on the water and living your dream.
Best of luck on your search.

 

[Scary]

A real refrigerator

Scary I like your post. I saw your post on the Newbies thread. You mentioned that you weren't going to give up certain things. My wife and I are looking to be live aboards in 6-10 years and I've been making a list of things that are "got to haves" so far its a full size shower, toilet, refrigerator queen/kingsize bed, washer dryer, zoned AC & heat and a watermaker. What else could you recommend? Thanks in advance

I agree that a watermaker is probably only needed if you are in a place where there is no water, or you have to buy it. Tankage is the answer. I carry 450 gallons.
Walk around bed is important, nothing gets older than having to crawl over someone or crawling into a bed from the end.
Hanging closet space, heated in cold climates.
Storage, storage , storage, accessible storage. ( not under the couch or under the dinette.
Comfortable furniture, loose recliner, real couch with a back that's not vertical.
Quiet fans and blowers, toilets.
Good Quiet water pressure with a accumulator At least 50psi.
Shore power, at least 50 amps 240 volts.
A real range, propane or electric, I have a Jenair with electric grill and down draft vent.
A good sized sink, and enough counter space to prepare food.
The list goes on and on. It is possible to get by with a minimalist approach, people live in 26' express cruisers and small sail boats with kerosene lights. To each his own.

 

[Ctsearay]

Great post Scary! My list is getting more well defined. Yeah I only was interested in the watermaker for less reliance on poor water quality at some marinas.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Watermaker, I have one and advocate anyone coming to the Caribbean on a regular basic to have one. If you are frequenting marinas in the United States and Canada at least once a week you don't need one. Assume even with a washing machine that 300 gallons of tankage will last a week.

I hadn't seen the mention of a washing machine. Creature comfort par excellence.

 

[N4712]

x2 On the watermaker, one of the BEST things we added to the boat. On our summer trip we never had to worry about water, took real showers, washed clothes multiple times a day, wash the boat, wash the dinghy. Never had to worry.

 

[TONTOROSS]

I am just starting my boat ownership. She needs work, so we'll do some work. Take short trips down the Columbia & back. More work. I think the water maker, for what we want to do is in the middle of the long list. Good refrigerator, AC, HEATER!, is at the top of the list. I am very fortunate to have a wife who is a custom furniture maker. We are removing the leather couch & recliner so "we" can make a custom couch of which the back is slopped backwards at comfortable angle & will be a day bed. The best thing about this entire adventure is the learning. You can take this for a grain of salt if you want; for those of you who look at a boat, house or barn as something that should be left alone. You don't really own it until you dig in and make changes to suit you. When we bought the boat, I thought holly crap! How much material is between me and the water? What will happen if I move this to over here? My biggest concern was will the boat be out of balance?

We were going to sell the ranch, get the boat ready for a trip to Mexico. I was hurt bad; took the ranch off the market; still healing; hurricane hit the Baja. Everything in it's own time, I guess.

 

[Marlinmike]

"What will happen if I move this to over here? My biggest concern was will the boat be out of balance?"

Smart to understand that, some people start ripping out and replacing like its a house, even seen some granite going in for counter tops, weight is a double edge sword on a boat.

 

[55chev]

Freelancer, i too was told i was crazy to sell my nice house and buy an old wooden boat(which many told me i was actually insane) but i did,then I bought a small property"cheap" built a 600 sq ft mini house and now am restoring and up grading my 36 footer...through all the what ifs ..i ended on ..what if i don't! good luck we only live once ,Mike

 

[freelancer]

The watermaker seems like it has many uses, I think the biggest for me would be a washing machine.

55chev, I've found that I only need to tell certain people... no sense in telling the world now. My parents used to tell me when I was younger, "The more you talk about doing something, the less likely you are to do it". This has proven true in my world. Talking with all of you about it is different though.. at-least there is constructive feedback.

It's great to see that other people are doing the same thing, I wish you the best. BTW did you design the house yourself?

I'm considering renting my house instead of selling. I can get at-least $1200 a month, and it is freshly updated. Because of how little I owe on it, I could live off the extra every month. All of my income would be disposable after that (boat, insurance, diesel, whatever).

I realize that many of you have purchased your boats with cash, however I wanted to ask the question anyway. Have any of you purchased a boat with a loan? If so, would you have done it the cash route if you could go back?

Looking forward to more great reads on these forums. Thanks to all who have contributed!

 

[N4712]

Can't give advice on the financial part, but once you get a watermaker you'll find out it will be alot more useful then just for the washer, for ex like washing the boat, filling up water jugs, washing the dink, and best of all real showers.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Watermaker. There is an often cited rule that the most dangerous thing on a boat is a schedule. Without a watermaker you may have a schedule to get water before you run out. This may be at a time when you otherwise would not move. Usually not a big deal, but it is something to consider.

 

[Mac2]

Couldn't agree more with the watermaker comments. I just installed one this year and spent three weeks in the San Juans without touching a dock once. I was inspired to purchase one when I was in the islands a few years ago when they were having a drought. I was getting turned away at docks unless I purchased something. It became a real hassle.

 

[boatpoker]

Tontoross has it right ... the most important addition to the boat for your plans is some form of heat. We did our first trip south without it and spent some miserable nights in NY, NJ and anchored off Sarasota. My wife said she'd never do the trip again without heat.

You sound like a handy guy around houses and cars so you will learn about boats but there are differences. Marine Survey 101 and Boat Maintenance for non-Idiots may help smooth the learning curve.

 

[janice142]

I'm considering renting my house instead of selling. I can get at-least $1200 a month, and it is freshly updated. Because of how little I owe on it, I could live off the extra every month. All of my income would be disposable after that (boat, insurance, diesel, whatever).

I did this and it was an unmitigated horror. Damage will occur, rent will be late, and every little thing that you'd naturally take care of because you own it, will be your problem. Your Expensive-to-fix problem. A tenant won't tighten the screws holding a hinge to a cabinet. Doors will be slammed open and the gizmos that should have prevented damage will have been broken/removed.

Need I remind you of fleas? Vermin?? Your contract calls for no pets? Ha! You're not there and besides they have a medical necessity for a critter.

Don't say it cannot happen to you and yours. It can, and might.

The city fined me for the trash left in front of the house when the tenant left. Finally. And it cost me a lawyer to pry her out. It took nearly a year to get rid of her and of course no income for that time -- just expenses.

Please be smarter than I was. Take the money and run. Or cruise.

[And it's possible my perceptions were colored by the fact that I was doing the whole chemo bit (and a couple of diets via physician removal of parts) so while sick I had to deal with the nonsense.]

But I'd never rent to a tenant. If they cannot afford a down-payment, tough.

In my opinion that is.

 

[CPseudonym]

I did this and it was an unmitigated horror. Damage will occur, rent will be late, and every little thing that you'd naturally take care of because you own it, will be your problem. Your Expensive-to-fix problem. A tenant won't tighten the screws holding a hinge to a cabinet. Doors will be slammed open and the gizmos that should have prevented damage will have been broken/removed.

Need I remind you of fleas? Vermin?? Your contract calls for no pets? Ha! You're not there and besides they have a medical necessity for a critter.

Don't say it cannot happen to you and yours. It can, and might.

The city fined me for the trash left in front of the house when the tenant left. Finally. And it cost me a lawyer to pry her out. It took nearly a year to get rid of her and of course no income for that time -- just expenses.

Please be smarter than I was. Take the money and run. Or cruise.

[And it's possible my perceptions were colored by the fact that I was doing the whole chemo bit (and a couple of diets via physician removal of parts) so while sick I had to deal with the nonsense.]

But I'd never rent to a tenant. If they cannot afford a down-payment, tough.

In my opinion that is.

Wisdom gained from experience. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, except in rental real estate. Was spoiled by good long term tenants then they moved out of both houses within 2 months of each other, then the wheels fell off that formula.

Sold both, paid the capital gains and bought some brain dead easy moderate risk mutual funds. Coulda bought high risk and the return would still be more consistent than the brave new breed of renters and attorneys nowadays.

Rentals are great if you don't mind working on them and they're across town IMO.

 

[bligh]

I did this and it was an unmitigated horror. Damage will occur, rent will be late, and every little thing that you'd naturally take care of because you own it, will be your problem. Your Expensive-to-fix problem. A tenant won't tighten the screws holding a hinge to a cabinet. Doors will be slammed open and the gizmos that should have prevented damage will have been broken/removed.

Need I remind you of fleas? Vermin?? Your contract calls for no pets? Ha! You're not there and besides they have a medical necessity for a critter.

Don't say it cannot happen to you and yours. It can, and might.

The city fined me for the trash left in front of the house when the tenant left. Finally. And it cost me a lawyer to pry her out. It took nearly a year to get rid of her and of course no income for that time -- just expenses.

Please be smarter than I was. Take the money and run. Or cruise.

[And it's possible my perceptions were colored by the fact that I was doing the whole chemo bit (and a couple of diets via physician removal of parts) so while sick I had to deal with the nonsense.]

But I'd never rent to a tenant. If they cannot afford a down-payment, tough.

In my opinion that is.

I have a couple of rentals. I dont need any more headaches- I have two boys already. I pay someone to manage them and the tenants. It runs about 10% or less of the annual rent to do it. Problem tenants are handled legally, swiftly and decisively.

 

[55chev]

the house design was a combination of ones on the net and personal taste,check out "Wheel Haus"
i have rented my place before..NEVER AGAIN!!lol

 

[Arcticspud]

Rentals are great except for the renters.

 

[Billyfeet]

Ha, "Landlord Stories".....it could be a hit series on FOX NEWS! But back to living aboard, what has been said about keeping the homestead and renting it is true... a nightmare waiting to happen. Even if the renters pay on time and don't trash the house. Because you will carry the burden in your head with you aboard your dream cruise. At least for me one of the top pleasures of living/cruising aboard was that my universe was me, my boat and I. I did not have anything out of that small place pulling my mental energy away from the task at hand. Which was enjoying the heck out of every simple pleasure coming my way. I like the note that Col. Walter Kurtz penned to his wife...."Sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids........I'm not coming home!"

 

[BobH]

Ben there, done that, never got a decent offer for the kids though!

Bob

 

[FF]

We are removing the leather couch & recliner so "we" can make a custom couch of which the back is slopped backwards at comfortable angle & will be a day bed.

Or just purchase one of a pair I have for sale for less than the cost of the springs , never mind the folding gear.

HEAT is the key to a good 12 month life afloat.

I suggest the Dickinson or similar , so no electric needs to be provided.

If they start to tax gravity , it might be different.

HEAT , any style , any brand is a complex installation to do it right.

Right is -20F , and warm & toasty aboard , more if AK is a destination.

 

[Forkliftt]

I did this and it was an unmitigated horror. Damage will occur, rent will be late, and every little thing that you'd naturally take care of because you own it, will be your problem. Your Expensive-to-fix problem. A tenant won't tighten the screws holding a hinge to a cabinet. Doors will be slammed open and the gizmos that should have prevented damage will have been broken/removed.

Need I remind you of fleas? Vermin?? Your contract calls for no pets? Ha! You're not there and besides they have a medical necessity for a critter.

Don't say it cannot happen to you and yours. It can, and might.

The city fined me for the trash left in front of the house when the tenant left. Finally. And it cost me a lawyer to pry her out. It took nearly a year to get rid of her and of course no income for that time -- just expenses.

Please be smarter than I was. Take the money and run. Or cruise.

[And it's possible my perceptions were colored by the fact that I was doing the whole chemo bit (and a couple of diets via physician removal of parts) so while sick I had to deal with the nonsense.]

But I'd never rent to a tenant. If they cannot afford a down-payment, tough.

In my opinion that is.

Good points Janice. I don't understand why more people don't realize that many problems (probably most) could be avoided by just addressing a small thing like a loose hinge screw before it strips and now you have a stripped hole (s) that even repaired will probably never be as strong as original.
Sorry for the thread drift?.....
One of my pet peeves is how the door gets closed on my truck. I know- pretty small stuff. But by occasionally lubricating the hinges and striker, and using "reasonable" force to close the door, it will probably work well for several years. Mine is an '05 and still works great. "If you close it that hard now while new, then that's what it will take to even get it to latch in a few years" is something I have said many times. I know. Pretty pathetic- but it does matter?.
Course I'm a cheap ass too. The edge of my drivers seat recently began to wear apart at the seam. I saw it coming...
And for the last year I would lift myself up and over this area as I stepped out of the truck. Luckily, for $40 a guy down the street did a nice job of sewing it up since it was caught early. Maybe with my "up and over" disembark approach I can get 10 more years out of the seat?? ???


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

 

[Captainjohn]

Cost of Living aboard calculator

I would like to share an interactive excel spreadsheet that I have developed that can help predict the annual/monthly cost of living aboard. It has a number of costs that are for both land and sea but I believe that with very little time you can get some good numbers in front of you.

please e mail me at jkenny@canalside.net to get a copy as I am not able to attach an excel file to this submission.