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Old 09-18-2023, 02:14 PM   #41
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My budgets have varied by multiples depending upon
Boat
Where I cruise
How much money I have
Age
How well I get to know the cruising region.

How you spend your money splits into discretionary choices and the obligatory nut.
A N60 o a Mainship 34
Western Med or eastern
Still working or retired
Mostly stationary in one region or in constant cruising.
30 or 70
Same back and forth snowbirding or RTW.

The obligatory nut for many cruisers maybe slightly higher. Health insurance and med evac. Mail handling. Land transportation. Communications. And things like that. But not to a large degree once you figure out a new cruising grounds for food and basic necessities.
Just like dirt dwellings boats and their maintenance is anything you want and can spend on it.
If I was having an expense conversation with a newbie it would start with
What boat?where? What will you and your significant other put up with? How do you live? Foodie? Lots of toys? Let’s of land based interests? Etc.
Think Don is informative but don’t think his experience relates to anyone other the similar life and use patterns.
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Old 09-18-2023, 03:53 PM   #42
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When my sons were little they used to ask me, Dad, how much does a house cost? How much does a car cost? How big does a house have to be before it's a mansion? Same kind of thing.

(We visited the Breakers at Newport during the boat show last week. When we walked through the front doors I said, My sons, almost everything may be relative in life, but okay, this would be a mansion in anybody's book.)
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Old 09-18-2023, 04:33 PM   #43
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......
Think Don is informative but donít think his experience relates to anyone other the similar life and use patterns.
I've watched his spreadsheet for a few years now on CruisersForum. The numbers draw a lot of attention and would obviously vary widely based on personal habits, desires, and available funds. But I think this distracts from the magic here - it's not the expenses that's near-universal, but the categories, the "A" column, not the "B" column with dollar signs. Armed with his spreadsheet as a model, anyone can build a reasonably accurate budget that suits their anticipated style of cruising. Since he's been transparent enough to provide the actual numbers, you can adjust up or down.

So when someone asks "how much does it cost to live on a boat?" You can say: "I know one guy who tracks all his expenses, lives s balanced life in and out of marinas, and lives on about $50k-$60k per year.'

Or you could say "or depends on blah-blah-blah so it runs the gamut."


Peter
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Old 09-18-2023, 04:41 PM   #44
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Ranks right up there with the classic question.... "you take your boat to Florida every winter? That's so cool, how long does it take?" You can give plenty of different answers on that too.

Ranks right up there with "how long is a rope?"

As I posted before..... the whole breakdown and some line items are definitely an interest to many newbies...but a single bottom line is about as accurate as taking a random poll of 100 Americans with no filters and asking them how much do they spend every year on living....some dirt poor rural Arkansas (pick any state) resident or a person from the Hamptons may be in the wide ranging answers.

There is always the short answer...unfortunately with wide open questions comes my blah-blah-blah answers.
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Old 09-18-2023, 05:13 PM   #45
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The reason I post these threads is because when I got interested in retiring early
and living/cruising on a boat I needed numbers.

Blah blah, "it depends", "as much as you have" answers were useless for planning. But there wasn't really real numbers out there. This includes the crazy "I cruise on $500/mo not counting X (you never got a dollar amount for X)" people and those posting stuff like "I only spend $50/yr on maintenance".

So I promised I would post my real numbers in a way that planners could use to decide on what THEY should use for their own plan. I have never been able to really understand why people get so interested in trashing it etc.

But I find it informing for myself and as good a use of an expensive MBA as needed by a boat bum like me.

You know something that the full spreadsheet really shows??????? It is that those expensive "not counting X" things happen regularly and just skip around in categories. My expenses are not high due to dining and drinking out, for us it is the "X"................and "the boat".
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Old 09-18-2023, 05:18 PM   #46
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BTW you know what you have not seen on this thread?

Someone post their own numbers in similar way.
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Old 09-18-2023, 06:12 PM   #47
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So I promised I would post my real numbers in a way that planners could use to decide on what THEY should use for their own plan. .......
That's exactly how I used it when I found it on CF a few years ago. It was tremendously helpful. Few people post their costs, few who do track their longterm costs. Not just maintenance, but the episodic costs such as replacements, upgrades, and unexpected repairs.

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those expensive "not counting X" things happen regularly and just skip around in categories. My expenses are not high due to dining and drinking out, for us it is the "X"................and "the boat".
Yea, the "It depends" answer is frustrating. Of course it depends. Duh... A 25-word preamble of assumptions should cover it for anyone with knowledge and a willingness to try. For example, before you joined TF, I used your example a few times when folks would ask "how much does living aboard cost?" In the fog of "it depends" or "as much as you have," I'd say "here's a guy who seems to live a middling life full time aboard his sailboat. Some marina, some anchor, some travel, Bahamas/Florida. He's spending around $4k/mo. YMMV." (Okay, maybe a bit more than 25-words, but you get the idea).

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BTW you know what you have not seen on this thread?

Someone post their own numbers in similar way.
This is where you lose me. I will never have these numbers because I don't track expenses. I stopped around 6-months into my refit to preserve my sanity. As I've said a million times now on both TF and CF, many thanks for collecting and sharing this data. A better question is one never asked: is the information useful? How is it being received? But no, you're a bit defensive about lack of reciprocity. Or how so few have asked for your spreadsheet.

You know what's missing from this thread? What you see on CF but not here? No one is saying your numbers are bogus or that they can do it for a less (well, I guess Simi60 did, but he did so respectfully). No one has insinuated you spend too much. At worst, many reminders that your numbers are your numbers ---- YMMV.

Don, I can't tell if you're just a bit prickly by nature or if your CF experiences have left you a bit jaded and cynical. But I think you're trying to pick a scab where there is none.

Peter
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Old 09-18-2023, 06:18 PM   #48
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BTW you know what you have not seen on this thread?

Someone post their own numbers in similar way.
You are falling back into the trap.

What you did was commendable and useful. But it is more a framework and a guide for people who cruise like you. Not everyone does even though the categories are very similar. So you really need to stop taking it personally even if others are trying to make it so. Other spreadsheets will just be variations on your theme and some might/should post...especially if their cruising style or range of expenses varies greatly from yours. If other have similar totals....what the use in posting them?

I had cruising (snowbirding) spreadsheets for about 8 years. I never worried about the 4-6 months I sat in New Jersey in a marina with very predictable costs. For the 8 years or so of snowbirding, half were almost every night in marinas and the other half rarely.... so which do I post because there was something like $8000 difference in just marina costs alone. All because of my passenger's dog.

I am not going to post them as they are buried pretty deep in my files and yours is a good example...also with a bit of further research, people could come up with their own. It doesn't matter how many minute categories ate made...who cares if antifreeze gets lumped in with consumable liquids like oil and boat soap? As long as one sees them as annual recurring costs.

Be happy you got kudos for what you did and let the negatives fly by.
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Old 09-18-2023, 06:36 PM   #49
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But no, you're a bit defensive about lack of reciprocity. Or how so few have asked for your spreadsheet.
Maybe. I prefer to think of it as don't go crapping on my data unless you are willing to share yours. I truly would like to see more people share their data/experience. Isn't that the reason for forums? Doesn't it seem that if I am posting what people call high expensive numbers they would want to show how it can be done for less other than just saying they do?

One of the interesting things about this topic over the years is the number of people who PM or email about their costs, but wouldn't post it to the thread.

BTW - I have seen some data from 1 person who has like 30 different categories.
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Old 09-18-2023, 07:18 PM   #50
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Maybe. I prefer to think of it as don't go crapping on my data unless you are willing to share yours. I truly would like to see more people share their data/experience. Isn't that the reason for forums? Doesn't it seem that if I am posting what people call high expensive numbers they would want to show how it can be done for less other than just saying they do?

One of the interesting things about this topic over the years is the number of people who PM or email about their costs, but wouldn't post it to the thread.

BTW - I have seen some data from 1 person who has like 30 different categories.
I can crap on a lot of posted things posted on TF, doesn't mean I have done them, will do them, have owned them, etc...etc....

As I posted that posting numbers similar to yours wouldn't do many people any good and not worth my effort to find and post them.

There are a few people here that will vouch for my reputation of honesty so "proving anything" is not something I am worried about.

As far as others stating they can live more cheaply on a boat than you and you are affronted by that because they aren't "proving it"? Are you serious? You couldn't find ways of shaving dollars off your spending?

Whether on a boat or on land, budgeting is a personal thing. People live on all different amounts and some hate it and some are happy. Out of all the things I have done and with boats in my life...and the 17 years of living aboard.....budgeting was the easiest thing I ever did. Some years it was less than what you posted, on 3 different kinds of boats. No braggin'...in fact BIG F'in Deal.....WHO CARES?

Adios...you have gone over the edge in my thinking.
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Old 09-18-2023, 08:10 PM   #51
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Don,


Thank you. I don't care what others say, I don't have a trawler, i don't liveaboard, I'm a landlubber who owns a 21' walkaround.


The numbers you have give me food for thought. To others who say "that's not right" or "pssh, I can do it better" are missing the point.


The point is to provide a reference for someone like me with no clue what it would cost. $15k USD/year? $50k/yr? $100k/yr? i don't know - i've never done it and its hard to find someone to share their numbers like you just did.


I don't expect if/when I do this that my numbers will be the same as yours. But again, that's not the point. You gave me figures for expenses on a particular boat in a particular country living a particular lifestyle.


Thank you - don't let the naysayers get under your skin (don't worry, they'll be along shortly to pooh-pooh my post too....
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Old 09-18-2023, 08:17 PM   #52
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As far as others stating they can live more cheaply on a boat than you and you are affronted by that because they aren't "proving it"? Are you serious? You couldn't find ways of shaving dollars off your spending?
Of course I can spend less. So what? The point you don't seem to be able to understand is that just saying so without showing what you would or wouldn't spent on isn't of any use to a planner.

BTW IF you knew the spreadsheet you would know that I say it can be done for less and I even provide a number and what it wouldn't include.

You aren't really interested in the topic other than to ....
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Old 09-18-2023, 08:26 PM   #53
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Maybe. I prefer to think of it as don't go crapping on my data unless you are willing to share yours.
As far as I am concerned, I never crapped on yours
I simply said we do it different to you.

And I listed the differences amounting to about $30k difference.

As stated, proof of our spend yearly is a simple money in vs money out
Everything bought on PayPal, direct debit or bank transfer
Tracked and shown monthly and at years end on a bank app.
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Old 09-22-2023, 11:18 AM   #54
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well I was wrong and there are lots of people here who are interested and have asked for the spreadsheet

I tried again to attach and it was a invalid file :-(
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Old 09-22-2023, 11:38 AM   #55
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well I was wrong and there are lots of people here who are interested and have asked for the spreadsheet

I tried again to attach and it was a invalid file :-(
Don - if you're up to it, maybe PDF the summary page and post that. The month-to-month walk is interesting, but really, the categories and summary are where the gold is.

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Old 09-22-2023, 12:25 PM   #56
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Thanks Don - for sharing with me ...
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Old 09-22-2023, 01:36 PM   #57
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Don - if you're up to it, maybe PDF the summary page and post that. The month-to-month walk is interesting, but really, the categories and summary are where the gold is.

Peter
I tried that once and the pages don't line up and it is useless
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Old 09-22-2023, 04:21 PM   #58
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Agree Don has done good work and the organization of his spread sheet is very helpful.
Through several boats now we’ve been using “Boating Suite”. Like it as it also tracks where I buy fuel and what it costed as well as the details of my maintenance and all other boat expenses. Everything including which vendor, contact information, my impression of that vendor and time/place of each event is recorded. I can export the files easily.
Beyond getting a cost of ownership such a program or spread sheet is very helpful in running a boat. I like having everything I need for ordering, knowing intervals, knowing how to get stuff done in one place which is why I use a program rather than a spreadsheet. It uses my iPad gps and information so a lot of the entries are filled out automatically.
I’ve tried other programs but like this one the best.
I don’t tract airplane flights, going out, clothes and other daily expenses as I feel differently about them. Wife and I can piss away money wherever we are it seems. Would do that on or off a boat. Admittedly our food costs are usually higher on the boat as we need transportation to get there, often have fewer options and inability to bulk purchase to the degree we do at home. So food is higher. Same with airplanes, car rentals and such. So I use the program to only tract things I consider direct boat expenses. Don’s way make great sense as well if your question is what do I spend per year living and is justified in being more inclusive.
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Old 09-22-2023, 06:04 PM   #59
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I tried that once and the pages don't line up and it is useless
Do you have google drive? You can upload it there and then set for anyone or anyone with a link, post the link here

Sorry Don this wil probably hurt your brain.
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Old 09-22-2023, 07:17 PM   #60
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Do you have google drive? You can upload it there and then set for anyone or anyone with a link, post the link here
that hurt my brain
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