Your annual $ numbers

[SomeSailor]

OK... I get the separation. I think it's misleading when some folks who have what is obviously a $400K-$500K boat who are stating cost of ownership less than $10K a year.

No one ever talks about it and maybe that's just a social statement in and of itself. The elitist adage "If you have to ask how much it costs... then you can't afford it" comes to mind.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that personal finances are generally not social discussion. But it would be nice to hear what that $400K mortgaged boat costs in terms of Annual $$$ numbers too.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

SD expressed my and my husband's feelings about our boat as well. It is central to our life.

 

[Art]

OK... I get the separation. I think it's misleading when some folks who have what is obviously a $400K-$500K boat who are stating cost of ownership less than $10K a year.

No one ever talks about it and maybe that's just a social statement in and of itself. The elitist adage "If you have to ask how much it costs... then you can't afford it" comes to mind.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that personal finances are generally not social discussion. But it would be nice to hear what that $400K mortgaged boat costs in terms of Annual $$$ numbers too.

Call a bank lender - They'll be pleased to provide quotes and give suggestions. IMHO, unless maybe considered strictly as a live aboard, any mortgage on any pleasure-boat is too much! Not so for a commercially inclined and income producing craft.

 

[markpierce]

What Perla thinks about boating :

 

[FlyWright]

Buying the boat over time allowed us to buy the boat that fit our desires in turnkey condition five years ago. This gave us the chance to add the improvements we wanted and still pay off the loan before retirement. We now have the boat we want, equipped the way we want and we own her free and clear.

Sometimes financing makes sense, but it's not for everyone.

 

[bfloyd4445]

whether a person will have a boat mortgage and if so the size of the payments is something they need to figure out and factor in on their own--that's going to depend on the price they pay, the amount they put down, the interest rate they pay, the length of loan they choose... so it doesn't seem relavent to this dicussion for anyone to add in their boat payment when discussing what they spend on maintaining and mooring their boat. IMO.

good point. we were all so wrapped up in this thing we didnt take that thought into consideration

 

[psneeld]

Whether you factor payments in or not or include major capital improvements/replacements is determined whether or not you are going to keep the boat long term or even boat long term.

It's like car payments...you are probably going to have a car for most of your life so whether you make payments or buy new/used cash each time...it all works out close in the end (less interest)...so factoring a dollar amount to major work/new engine/another boat only makes sense in annual costs...

 

[BruceK]

I'm noticing most do not include the payment for the boat itself in their annual cost although most are making them. Are we kidding ourselves a bit?

Some boat owners will have an interest component on borrowings for the boat. Others bear an "opportunity cost", ie their $ in the boat which could otherwise be invested for a return. Others will have a combination of the two.
And there is depreciation.Many boats are a depreciating asset, no matter how much we spend on maintenance.
But that is not the test of boat ownership,we love our boats, we enjoy them, love our boating, our boating friends and the whole boating life.
It is interesting to check how many $ go on the boat. How others regulate their spend may help us too, and I guess there is a limiting point on what we can afford to spend. But it is really not about the $, it is about boating.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Some boat owners will have an interest component on borrowings for the boat. Others bear an "opportunity cost", ie their $ in the boat which could otherwise be invested for a return. Others will have a combination of the two.
And there is depreciation.Many boats are a depreciating asset, no matter how much we spend on maintenance.
But that is not the test of boat ownership,we love our boats, we enjoy them, love our boating, our boating friends and the whole boating life.
It is interesting to check how many $ go on the boat. How others regulate their spend may help us too, and I guess there is a limiting point on what we can afford to spend. But it is really not about the $, it is about boating.

Thank you Island Gypsy.
while everyone else is chattering away about the money they are spending we are out enjoying our boats and when we run out of money we just go to sleep for a bit or go make more!<smile>
My daughter when she was in college would refrain from buying things to not be such a financial burden upon her dad. This bothered me because my feeling was as long as she was working hard to secure her future i would pay the price. Well to make a long story short i decided to have a talk with her. We went out on the searay and while sitting on the deck sipping a cocktail of a boat that cost twice as much as the house i lived in I told her that if she needed money to please ask. She said, Dad, i dont want to burden you you have bills to pay. I replied, Kim, have you ever seen me not have money to put food on the table or buy what ever toy i wished like this boat. She replied, no dad....

The point being money should always follow behind enjoyinmg live because life isnt getting longer and its better to live in a box than go without the fun factor fully engaged.

 

[psneeld]

Thank you Island Gypsy. while everyone else is chattering away about the money they are spending we are out enjoying our boats and when we run out of money we just go to sleep for a bit or go make more!<smile>

Are you living on your boat? Are you preparing for a 4 month cruise?

Otherwise this post sounds just like the rest of yours....

 

[bfloyd4445]

Are you living on your boat? Are you preparing for a 4 month cruise?

Otherwise this post sounds just like the rest of yours....

no. I go back and forth between residences and the boats are just for getting away for a bit. I love to be comfortable out on the water and got used to plush fast boats when winter fishing in the delta for sturgeon. Was years before i realized the fishing took a back seat to just plain getting away. Everyone should spend two three days in the delta fishing or just lounging in the winter fog rain. Gives one a diferent outlook on life. Kinda like an eye opener........ Now I'm ready for a plush slow boat with extended range and my smart phoe<smile>
But, yes, i may be up for an extended cruise when i find the right boat in the spring.

 

[psneeld]

no. I go back and forth between residences and the boats are just for getting away for a bit. I love to be comfortable out on the water and got used to plush fast boats when winter fishing in the delta for sturgeon. Was years before i realized the fishing took a back seat to just plain getting away. Everyone should spend two three days in the delta fishing or just lounging in the winter fog rain. Gives one a diferent outlook on life. Kinda like an eye opener........ Now I'm ready for a plush slow boat with extended range and my smart phoe<smile>
But, yes, i may be up for an extended cruise when i find the right boat in the spring.

Well if you like boating so much...you better be thinking recapitalization or you'll be bank fishing later in life. saying the rest of us that are smart enough to include it in our daily thinking isn't "enjoying" boating is pretty ignorant.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Well if you like boating so much...you better be thinking recapitalization or you'll be bank fishing later in life. saying the rest of us that are smart enough to include it in our daily thinking isn't "enjoying" boating is pretty ignorant.

no, thats not what i am saying at all. or should i say that isnt the thought i was trying to convey. what i meant in a nutshell was whats important, and what most of us including myself push aside is that quality of life first, all else next. I always had an eye on finances but tried to never let them take control. However, especially this time of the year with the spector of taxes looming on the horizon its easy to loose touch with r&r and become enslaved by$$ stretching.

I've thought lots on the subject of running out of $$ before i'm gone and the ogre of leaving my hard earned money to my kids so they can blow it on trinkets is something i dont wish to take to my grave. Ideally one runs out of money on his last day. But, my experiance has been that the medical system drains one dry before the grim reapers visits. Rather leave it to my daughter than the system i guess

 

[THD]

SomeSailor-to answer a prt of your question-our boat is a bit north of $400k but here are our expenses on average-I can't speak to lender costs as we do own it without a mortgage.

Slip-$11,400
Electricity-$900
Insurance-$6,500
Fuel-$9,000 (with twin 154 hp JDs, at 7 knots, we burn about 4.5GPH and average about 500 hours/year)
Oil Changes, general maintenance, etc-$3,000
Annual Haulout-$2,500
Miscellaneous stuff-$4,500

Total-$37,800/year.

We have budgeted our cost of ownership at $40K per year, less than 10%, and in 3 years have not exceeded that.

We did spend about $40K wihen we first bought the boat a few years ago on some electronic upgardes, etc. but have not had to spend anything major on major projects since then. I do as much of the arok on the boat as I can, i only call in a professional when I really need one. So far (knock on teak!) have not really needed to get a lot of outside help.

To us, this is our "second home" and as you can tell from the hours, we use it alo, and in 4 years, it will be our primary home and will be spending its time someplace alot warmer than Shilshole Bay!

 

[markpierce]

To us, this is our "second home" and as you can tell from the hours, we use it alo, and in 4 years, it will be our primary home and will be spending its time someplace alot warmer than Shilshole Bay!

Same here. We probably spend two afternoons enjoying the boat in the marina for every day "out."

 

[psneeld]

no, thats not what i am saying at all. or should i say that isnt the thought i was trying to convey. what i meant in a nutshell was whats important, and what most of us including myself push aside is that quality of life first, all else next. I always had an eye on finances but tried to never let them take control. However, especially this time of the year with the spector of taxes looming on the horizon its easy to loose touch with r&r and become enslaved by$$ stretching.

I've thought lots on the subject of running out of $$ before i'm gone and the ogre of leaving my hard earned money to my kids so they can blow it on trinkets is something i dont wish to take to my grave. Ideally one runs out of money on his last day. But, my experiance has been that the medical system drains one dry before the grim reapers visits. Rather leave it to my daughter than the system i guess

OK Jonah...must have been on the wrong Ark.....

 

[bfloyd4445]

OK Jonah...must have been on the wrong Ark.....

Good point. Guess we should start an Ark or Jonah thread?

However: Getting back to my first post relating the expenses of the Ark. The annual cost of maintaining the Ark must have been far beyond what a poor shepard could aford so Jonah < big fat banker > paid Noah a visit and then there was no more Noah since Jonah was a toothed whale and famished. End of Noah but the beginning of Jonah's Ark.

now u understand?

Getting back to the subject ok? You would have thought that Noah would have been able to amortize his initial investment in the Ark in less than five years from the sale of all the poop accumulating on board to Imperial County co gen plant.
True story. A co generation plant in Imperial county that we tested for the local air quality management district was built to consume the mountains of poop accumulating on ranches in the area.At the time the ranchers were begging people to take all the poop they wanted free of charge. This plant was funded because the investers believed they would have unlimi9ted free for the taking fuel for the plant. Well after they went into operation the local ranchers decided they wanted paid for their poop and kept raising the price till they had to close the plant down. Bad news.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

No no no we split off the ark talk to its own thread and I think it ended up moved to ODTE. No more ark, Noah, Jonah... Talk on this thread!!!

 

[Ocean Breeze NL]

Good point. Guess we should start an Ark or Jonah thread?

However: Getting back to my first post relating the expenses of the Ark. The annual cost of maintaining the Ark must have been far beyond what a poor shepard could aford so Jonah < big fat banker > paid Noah a visit and then there was no more Noah since Jonah was a toothed whale and famished. End of Noah but the beginning of Jonah's Ark.

now u understand?

Now that cracked me up! :lol:

Elwin

 

[ksanders]

That's the reason I ask I suppose. I intentionally only bought the boat that I could pay for from the proceeds of my last boat and a draw from my savings. I don't have a boat payment, but I have much less boat than many others.

So, when I see my costs in the $20K-$25K a year range, and others with boats that cost multiples of 4-5 times what I paid for mine who claim to only spend $10K a year for their addiction, the numbers don't add up in my old nugget.

I think it's partially what Kevin mentioned. It's a near taboo to talk about "owing money on a boat", but my view of these beautiful boats says they must be some working stiffs out there that chose to borrow that cash to buy the toy, but just don't include it in their conversations.

Me... I could only justify the boat if I owned it outright, and that leaves me with an older gal that has good bones, but needs a lot more of my attention than others I slip with. As far as depreciation, I don't have to worry about that. I paid less for the boat than the running gear worth.

I still never look forward to paying that moorage bill though.

For me it was easy. I'm a working man. I've done what I think is pretty well in life financially, but I'm by no means well to do. My house payment was going away so I had the ability to re-direct that payment to a boat that I would have never thought I could buy. I had no other need for the money.

It was then or never. Just the right time of life. I was 49, kids on their own, no house payment. I committed to working untill I paid off my boat, which will be at 61. I only work 24 weeks a year so working untill I'm 61 is no problem. I'm semi retired already.

As far as the boat, I bought it, then put something over a hundred thousand of my own money into making it perfect in every way. I could have purchased allot of good boats outright with that cash , I know that. But this is my second home and I didn't want a perpetual remodeling project

What I can say, is that the more expensive the boat the more likely it has a mortgage being paid on it. Paying cash for a 50 or a hundred thousand dollar boat is in a different level of difficulty as paying cash for a boat that costs several times that.

I will say that a more expensive boat is not any better, or any worse than any other boat. The people down the float with the million dollar + 58 Nordhavn are no happier than I am. I am no happier than my slip mate with his 1970's converted fish boat. At least in Alaska there is no pretense. We are all equal out on the water, and we all enjoy our boats.

 

[SomeSailor]

Thanks for sharing Kevin. Sounds like good plan. With the boat paid off you'll have a bit of a nestegg in that too in case boating loses it's appeal. I'm still working to knock the house mortgage off, so I'm in the opposite situation.

The better news is you're cruising in an amazing boat and while I'm still getting my old gal polished back up.

 

[baldpaul]

SomeSailor-to answer a prt of your question-our boat is a bit north of $400k but here are our expenses on average-I can't speak to lender costs as we do own it without a mortgage.

Slip-$11,400
Electricity-$900
Insurance-$6,500
Fuel-$9,000 (with twin 154 hp JDs, at 7 knots, we burn about 4.5GPH and average about 500 hours/year)
Oil Changes, general maintenance, etc-$3,000
Annual Haulout-$2,500
Miscellaneous stuff-$4,500

Total-$37,800/year.

We have budgeted our cost of ownership at $40K per year, less than 10%, and in 3 years have not exceeded that.

We did spend about $40K wihen we first bought the boat a few years ago on some electronic upgardes, etc. but have not had to spend anything major on major projects since then. I do as much of the arok on the boat as I can, i only call in a professional when I really need one. So far (knock on teak!) have not really needed to get a lot of outside help.

To us, this is our "second home" and as you can tell from the hours, we use it alo, and in 4 years, it will be our primary home and will be spending its time someplace alot warmer than Shilshole Bay!

THD has very similar numbers to me and my boat is just north of $400k. My fuel, marina and insurance are less. I personally would not finance a boat purchase. BUT, to buy my boat to fulfill a life goal, I made some dramatic changes in my life. You can't have everything. So, I sold my business, but still work in the business I sold, still making a respectable income. We also sold our $525k home and now rent a very modest home with cheap rent. To us a house is just a place to live. Understand though, I had Cancer twice in my mid 20s and had radiation treatment in my abdomen area. My thinking is the treatment could kill me 30 years later. I bought my boat at at age 42 and am now 45. If I tire of the boating life, I will sell it and add those funds to my retirement pot and retire if work gets in the way of life. Bottom line.....I don't want a list of things I wish I did.

On the debt topic, this can cause stress and anxiety in many people and offset the positive boat experience, so I would encourage people to consider this before taking a large loan on a certain depreciating asset.

 

[ksanders]

Thanks for sharing Kevin. Sounds like good plan. With the boat paid off you'll have a bit of a nestegg in that too in case boating loses it's appeal. I'm still working to knock the house mortgage off, so I'm in the opposite situation.

The better news is you're cruising in an amazing boat and while I'm still getting my old gal polished back up.

But, you could take out a mortgage if you wanted. You prefer not to and thats a great decision.

As we've both indicated the level of people willing to admit to owing money on their boat is allot lower online than what you see in person on the dock.

The guy 3 slips down from me is an orthadontist. He did my wifes braces, so we know him. He's going to re-fi his house to fund a re-power on his 48' nordic pilothouse (nice boat!). He has no qualms about saying that. Nobody thinks less of him.

When I was in serious discussions with Nordhavn I was told that almost all Nordhavn's are financed. Also its interesting to note that almost all Nordhavns are purchased with the buyers full well knowing they will sell the boat and never pay it off. Nordhavn calls it an "exit plan". Buy the boat, cruise the world for a few years, sell the boat. The difference in price is what it cost you to leve your dream of cruising the world.

Perhaps its an Alaskan thing, or perhaps its an internet thing, but I see no value in telling the world that I paid cash for a super expensive boat, and no shame in telling the world I have a mortgage on it.

Maybe its just us here in Alaska. There's no yacht club posturing here. There's no "Im better than you" on the docks because of the brand of boat you own, or the payment you make on it.

We posture and brag in different ways. For us its the big fish stories. Like the 256lb Halibut that was caught on my 28' Bayliner. Or the could have been world record Ling Cod that my wife caught but we barbequed instead. Now thats posturing that means something.

 

[THD]

BaldPaul-like you, outside of our boat, we live modestly, certainly compared to many of my peers. We live in a small house, with an old, cheap mortgage that will be paid off before we take off. We drive two old cars that are paid for. We both went through prior careers where we lived pretty much to the max, mortgaged to the max and enjoyed (?) it. but, for us at least, it got old after a few years and we felt tied to what we owned. About 10 years ago, we decided we could enjoy our lives more with a bit less, so we got rid of a lot of stuff (before the crash!), and moved to Seattle fro DC. The boat was always in the plan, but it was not a firm plan and always depended on our being able to finance it. With a lot of other debt, that day would never have come. After realizing what was important to us, and adjusting our lives accordingly, we have been able to come a lot closer to reaching our goals.

I have friends who have spent 7, and in some cases 8, figures on a boat, mostly mortgaged. They may spend 4, 5 6 weekends a year on their boats. Their boats are simply another part of their lifestyle.

For us, and for most here, whether your boat is $5,000 or $5,000,000, it is central to our lifestyle.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Lots of interesting stories here and a lot of food for thought. I dipped my toe in the trawler waters in a different manner. I bought an old, cheap, but functional boat with an interest free credit card. Rolled it over onto another interest free card when the first ran out and paid it off when I had played out that string. It was my first experience of using OPM's interest free. It's a very nice feeling, I can see why the banksters are all about working that angle. Now, if I can only figure out how to pull off such a deal for a bigger, newer, nicer boat!

 

[sunchaser]

Kevin Says:
"Maybe its just us here in Alaska. There's no yacht club posturing here. There's no "Im better than you" on the docks because of the brand of boat you own, or the payment you make on it.

We posture and brag in different ways. --- fish we caught "

I'd much rather talk about brands of boats, equipment and engines than hear all the bragging and blathering about fishing. I know many hard core Alaskans who feel the same. What in the heck do you mean "yacht club posturing," aside from a Rodney Dangerfield movie?

 

[Art]

Some of you guys are a kick – Talk about POSTURING!

You fellows are even posturing about what you POSTURE about!!

Get over it and simply enjoy your lives with boats a portion thereof.

 

[sunchaser]

Art

You are correct. But, does this mean no more 500 word essays on gensets and talk about living the good (high taxed) life on the CA hillsides?

PS
My hillsides are higher than yours!!

 

[Pau Hana]

Kevin Says:
"Maybe its just us here in Alaska. There's no yacht club posturing here. There's no "Im better than you" on the docks because of the brand of boat you own, or the payment you make on it.

We posture and brag in different ways. --- fish we caught "

I'd much rather talk about brands of boats, equipment and engines than hear all the bragging and blathering about fishing. I know many hard core Alaskans who feel the same. What in the heck do you mean "yacht club posturing," aside from a Rodney Dangerfield movie?

''and the pot stirring begins....."

Perhaps Kevin simply meant that boat owners are equal, regardless of vessel...

Some of you guys are a kick – Talk about POSTURING!

You fellows are even posturing about what you POSTURE about!!

Get over it and simply enjoy your lives with boats a portion thereof.

Well put, Art!

Art

You are correct. But, does this mean no more 500 word essays on gensets and talk about living the good (high taxed) life on the CA hillsides?

PS
My hillsides are higher than yours!!

BUT- can you get to you boat and be underway as quickly as Art? THAT is the question.....

 

[rwidman]

I think the intent of the originator of this thread was to list expenses other than the actual cost of buying the boat with the assumption that a person paying $XXX for a boat had already figured that part out.

Expenses that a new boater might not be aware of.