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Old 10-30-2018, 07:04 PM   #81
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OldDan. Easy to do in south Biscayne Bay, more difficult in many areas in the ICW.
3Ft waves in the narrow part of the ICW? Never saw or heard of that. I'll take your word for that.

Psst, there are always exceptions to every rule.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:27 PM   #82
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Wifey B: A few posts now on beam seas. One thing I've learned is that many trawlers and full displacement boats perform very poorly in such seas. This would definitely be an area type boat comes into play. As we have planing and semi-planing hulls, we're able to match speed to waves and also to go wider routes to hit beam seas at better angles and don't experience the same issues in beam seas of the height discussed. Plus we are stablized.


Every boat has its pluses and minusís.

The worst for me is beam seas when there is no wind to use the sails to stabilise the roll. Even at 45 degrees to the wind there is a lot of coffee spilled in those conditions. If thereís 10 or 20 knots of wind in the sails, no problem.
Going with the waves is a dream with a canoe stern. Thatís when I really love being out in rough water. (As long as the waves arenít breaking; that gets a little too stressful)
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:37 PM   #83
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Timely thread.
Nov 1, I get my shelter back after a summer out. So tomorrow, Halloween, I will make my annual homeward (for the boat) trek to Vancouver. I have been watching Windy.com and conditions look good. Winds are negligible, sea state is low, .7m and falling for the time I will be exposed, and I can choose to have the swells behind me by going out through Active Pass, or hope the predicted height is not exceeded and get some beam on by going out through Porlier.
I haven't looked to see if there is rain, I just presume there will be. In fact I would prefer not to need to hose the boat off when I get to the marina.
For a few days Windy was showing a much better day today than tomorrow, but early this morning when I checked, they looked the same, so I chose to wait. Tonight, it will be windy, 15 to 20, but those winds die off and the sea state diminishes by the time I get through the pass, if Windy is correct.

Accuracy of prediction at this time of year is never a sure thing. Last year, after poking my nose out through Active Pass, I had to turn back, as the wave action was too much. I was finding a 3' to 4' square wave on the nose that would stop my boat so quickly that my fwd facing cupboards were coming open. My boat is usually comfortable in up to 6' waves, but won't do square ones.

Hopefully the hardest part of the trip will be the walk from the marina to the Waterfront Skytrain, to begin the journey home.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:19 PM   #84
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3Ft waves in the narrow part of the ICW? Never saw or heard of that. I'll take your word for that.

Psst, there are always exceptions to every rule.
Wifey B: I was curious how we went from 3' to being unable to tack or maneuver in the narrow ICW. Seems to me it would be one or the other but not normal to have both at the same time.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:50 AM   #85
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Wifey B: I was curious how we went from 3' to being unable to tack or maneuver in the narrow ICW. Seems to me it would be one or the other but not normal to have both at the same time.
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People like to add conditions and exceptions.
All this talk would be mute if the ICW is drained for cleaning.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:24 AM   #86
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There are quite a few spots along the entire length of ICW, Bogue Sound for instance, or the entrance to the Alligator River, where the channel itself is quite narrow but the water is wide and shallow.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:33 AM   #87
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SMILE
People like to add conditions and exceptions.
All this talk would be mute if the ICW is drained for cleaning.
Wifey B: From what I'm hearing from a captain taking an older trawler up the coast right now, if it doesn't get some dredging soon, it may also be moot.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:30 AM   #88
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Wifey B: From what I'm hearing from a captain taking an older trawler up the coast right now, if it doesn't get some dredging soon, it may also be moot.
BandB, for as long as I remember, people have always said, "The ICW needs to be dredged." Long after I am dead, the new generation will be saying, "The ICW needs dredging."
The only way the ICW would get the attention it needs is if it were used in major commerce transportation. Consider the Mississippi River..... barge traffic is important for moving oil, grains etc. If a complaint is filed, the area will be dredged a lot sooner than a stretch of the ICW on the east coast.

I would like to see the inlets dredged more frequently so as to remove the deltas in those areas. Usually the shore line of an inlet is a collection of rocks.

Not many boater are prepared to meet a boat coming in as they are trying to get out to the ocean. Things can get a tad bit exciting passing through an inlet while trying to avoid the shallow deltas, the rocks and a larger boat, that is more restricted in by its draft and ability to navigate the 'narrows' at a slow speed.
I have made it a habit to pass the inlet, going out, checking for a large boat coming in. If it is safe, I will then pick a safe path to pass through the inlet.

I am surprised more accidents do not happen at the 2 lane inlets especially with smaller boats. For some reason, the smaller boats fail to understand, not all boats are a nibble as their boat.

And the last words heard on the VHF were, "I have the right of way."
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:17 PM   #89
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And the last words heard on the VHF were, "I have the right of way."
I once heard a sailboater tell a tow with 16 barges that he had the right of way. Very politely, the tow captain responded, "First, you don't, but regardless please keep in mind that I can squash you like a little insect."

That ended the fight over space.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:19 PM   #90
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I once heard a sailboater tell a tow with 16 barges that he had the right of way. Very politely, the tow captain responded, "First, you don't, but regardless please keep in mind that I can squash you like a little insect."

That ended the fight over space.
Now that is funny.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:25 PM   #91
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A bit of topic drift but I'll drift along. We went from Stuart to Mobile this summer and were surprised at the lack of commercial traffic on the waterway. Okeechobee-Ft. Meyers-Tampa-Apalachicola-Panama City: only activity was dredging, no shipping. The first barges we saw were west of Pensacola. A 2015 report by the USCoE states that there was 2.6 million tons between VA and Jacksonville, practically nothing between Jacksonville and Miami and 110 million tons on the Gulf waterway. Commercial fishing seemed to go in/out of their harbors to open water but not much along the ICW. It seems like a lot of infrastructure and maintenance for what looks like little utility.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:41 PM   #92
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It's been said...depends on crew and equipment. It's always nice to have the option of go-no-go and not get backed into a forced move. I think it's about risk management and this is where experience offers the advantage.


Ride along...anchor is 8' from the water surface. This sunny day had increasing wind as we made S towards the Gulf of Alaska. By the time we looked beyond the headland seen to the SE, we decided to hold up for several hours. Seas at that point were about 18' and steady 35kts wind. However, we have gone across with more wind. Even with the nice sunshine urging us on, a short break make the 24NM crossing with beam seas easier on the crew and was the right move.

https://www.facebook.com/13151265519...5128251923860/


This year, we were picking up pot gear with sustained 40kts and gusts to 50kts with about 5-6' chop, but the crew is OK on deck in that. The largest seas have been about 20' or maybe a little larger, but nice and long without much wind. Some of the worst has been storm force with about 8' wind waves. That was nasty, watching water spouts spin up. About 6-8' above the water was thick blowing water mist. Wild stuff.


A boat is generally able to take more severe weather than the crew, from what I have seen. There's something wild about hanging on the hook when it's nasty out and watching the weather.


Be safe, brothers! (and sisters) And, every now and again, relish in the fact that you have seen the edge of your comfort zone and have lived through it. That being said, i'm inside where it's warm and dry.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:54 PM   #93
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Be safe, brothers! (and sisters) And, every now and again, relish in the fact that you have seen the edge of your comfort zone and have lived through it. That being said, i'm inside where it's warm and dry.
Seeing the edge of one's comfort zones usually involves pushing the boundary a bit further so that the next time you approach the edge you will be more confident because you know you've been there and survived.

Great video AKFish. I don't mind at all running in seas like that. In fact, I get a big of enjoyment from pushing the boundaries of my comfort zone. My wife....not so much, but she tolerates me when I'm pushing boundaries.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:27 PM   #94
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Seeing the edge of one's comfort zones usually involves pushing the boundary a bit further so that the next time you approach the edge you will be more confident because you know you've been there and survived.

Great video AKFish. I don't mind at all running in seas like that. In fact, I get a big of enjoyment from pushing the boundaries of my comfort zone. My wife....not so much, but she tolerates me when I'm pushing boundaries.
Wifey B: That's just a little chop. Now, if he had a little more speed, he could smooth that out a bit.

Especially if taking novices with me, I'd try to adjust the speed at the beginning a bit up or down. We do consider who is with us, but mostly it's experienced offshore boaters.

Even if smooth close to shore, that would not be an unusual day at all for the gulf stream and one must cross it regularly with the Bahamas close.

I'd be interested in how many feet people think that video shows from beginning to end. I'd expect to read numbers all over the place.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:33 PM   #95
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Will keep an eye open for you as you pass Pond Reef, North of Ketchikan. Have those large Chinese benocks, so don't be pissing overboard on the SB side!!!

Have a safe trip Stripper, if you need anything in K-Town, give me a shout
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:37 PM   #96
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AKFish, great video and accented with the comforting sound of a reliable diesel.
One nice thing about a trawler.... go inside, close the pilot house doors, turn on the heat and enjoy a strong cup of coffee, staying dry.
Far better than an open cockpit of a sailboat, wind and spray in your face, adjusting sails, wet and chilled to the bones. Cant find the coffee cup let alone the coffee that used to be in that cup.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:55 PM   #97
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BandB, 1ft to the occasional 3ft wave.

When you are doing 8 knots in a trawler, going faster may not be an option. (quick, hand me the bucket ..... too late, hand me the hose.)
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:26 PM   #98
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BandB, 1ft to the occasional 3ft wave.

When you are doing 8 knots in a trawler, going faster may not be an option. (quick, hand me the bucket ..... too late, hand me the hose.)
Wifey B: I say bigger than that, 1' is little more than a ripple. Anxious to hear others weigh in. Oh, and the video wasn't a trawler.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:30 PM   #99
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I think it is really hard to judge wave height from a video taken over the bow. It is easier for me to judge height by looking out the PH window to the side. Even then, it is hard from a 2D video to get a sense of the size of the waves.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:41 PM   #100
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Every Spring I pray for rain, sleet snow....anything but more fog during the annual solo ferry across Lake Michigan. This year it was six hours of...dense fog. Not a big deal until I was on final approach to a port that I had not previously visited via boat. The ~ 75' wide channel has a long rip rap jetty jutting into Lake Michigan. The south side has an elevated marker light/tower at the approach end. I was on the flybridge where there's a very good chart plotter, but no radar. The lower station has radar and a very basic GPS display. Field of view is better from the flybridge. I had a waypoint marking the center of the channel entry and just short of the light/jetty. The approach was on one engine...just enough speed to maintain rudder effectiveness. I had not acquired the light tower when I was at the waypoint. Fortunately, I looked up at about a 45* angle and spotted the red and white striping peaking out of the murk. The concrete and steel foundation was about 30 feet directly ahead. I slammed both transmissions in reverse and backed into the murk. Stopped, applied hard left rudder and inched back forward. Reacquired the top of the light at about 45* off the starboard bow and then spotted the rip rap of the jetty about 20 feet away. Creeped down the channel and never did see the north side wall.

Next year I'll have a decent chart plotter at the lower helm, as radar plus plotter would have been the best equipment for close-in IFR . This routine is getting old.
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