Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-12-2022, 03:49 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Windows weeping brown liquid

Good day all!

Been restoring our trawler and have been away for some time but returned to the vessel today to find some rather confusing issues with one of our newly sealed windows.

There is brown liquid residue that’s weeping out of a missed seam around the window. Obviously that means the windows aren’t sealed as though and I need to dig it out but I haven’t seen this except for on houses.

Anyone have any insight, experience or advice? There is a chain plate for a stanchion for the mast directly above the frame but there are weeping issues along the top edging of the frame as well.

@mv_seagypsy on IG for those who want more context.
Attached Thumbnails
3EA61195-7281-40F0-934F-260DF288B49B.jpg   27CE0052-FD7C-44A1-A4E2-BCA94A9B5C3D.jpg   4383DA25-BD52-43D3-80B6-7E63E283A213.jpg  
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 04:02 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Just read an article on “surfactant leaching” which occurs when acrylic based paints are exposed to water and leaches out some of the water soluble components. It doesn’t explain the water intrusion but it explains the discoloration….
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 04:19 PM   #3
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,167
For what it’s worth, when I was rebuilding and reskinning the roof in my 1987 KK Manatee, there was a leaching of the same type of brown liquid around the window frames. I was sure there must be some wooden framing in the roof somewhere as the source of the brown liquid. When I finally got the top skin removed, I was surprised to find that it was simply water seepage through the traumatized top skin (years of accessoriy installations) that was soaking the old glue. There was no wood.

I ground out over 100 lbs of that old glue and reskinned the roof. No sign of the brown juice since.
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallowsĒ.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 04:53 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,289
A lot of times it is the old wood saturated with water and it turns brown.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 05:54 PM   #5
Guru
 
CharlieO.'s Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Vessel Name: Luna C.
Vessel Model: 1977 Marine Trader 34DC
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 679
We are addressing a couple leaks in our cabin. Ours is the same color, wet wood juice.
CharlieO. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 07:10 PM   #6
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,607
True...wood juice.

Even a decade after pulling up all the teak decking, removing teak trim and replacing all windows (cabin theoretically water tight)..... brown water still oozed from weep holes in the cabin top, the ones drilled up through the walkway overhangs. Also had so brown from around windows where there was any caulking miss.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 08:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 375
I had something similar coming from a port side vertical bulkhead at the most aft section. I noticed after a rain I would get wood juice that came out a thin crack on the trailing edge. I ground out the center of the trailing edge down to the bottom of the bulkhead and about a cup of water came out. Ground it out more to inspect and let it air out. Was still pretty solid except for the last inch of the trailing edge. Gouged out all the wood that would come out, let it air out for a week or two, drill holes on the sides about 1.25 inches back and pumped in some peanut butter until it oozed out every orifice. Then clamped some wood on either side and gently tightened until it was a consistent width on the bulkhead. Sanded down and painted. Very solid now and no more brown wood juice.

There is probably better ways to repair it but it's been 1.5 years and is still solid as a rock...because it essentially is a 2x20 inch rock at the trailing edge 😆
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 08:08 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Flatswing's Avatar
 
City: Windmill Harbour, Hilton Head Island, SC
Vessel Name: River Girl
Vessel Model: 2004 DeFever 49 RPH
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 414
Surveyors often refer to it as ďmungĒ -sure sign of wet/rotting wood core.
__________________
Jeremy
Flatswing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 09:30 PM   #9
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,352
Aka "teak tea".
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 11:46 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieO. View Post
We are addressing a couple leaks in our cabin. Ours is the same color, wet wood juice.
What are you doing to address them? Thanks!
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 11:58 PM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Here are the photos of a separate window in the aft cabin where I used a die grinder to route out channels to fill with Totalfair fairing compound. I did not do that to the problem window as that was the first one and my methods were largely experimental and I didnít think to cover those seams until later.

You can see the obvious seam where water is likely coming in. Thatís my hope anyways? Iíll update on what ever comes of this.
Attached Thumbnails
E484A0F0-0430-4263-A298-AA4A357A1833.jpg   BE54F06F-0B2B-4421-9735-D7415F1C5D27.jpg   25F8B0B0-4CC0-4ED7-BBE5-07BC8BA28BF9.jpg   A1C2115E-F358-49A2-9217-1E1785D23056.jpg  
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2022, 01:32 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,289
The first thing to do is find and fix the leaks. Like triage in medicine, stop the bleeding. In this case the bleeding is the leak. Then repair the wet core or wood. But if the leak isn’t fixed the wood and/or core will just keep getting wet, and then more brown juice.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2022, 05:04 AM   #13
Guru
 
CharlieO.'s Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Vessel Name: Luna C.
Vessel Model: 1977 Marine Trader 34DC
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by albinalaska View Post
What are you doing to address them? Thanks!
A couple things I've done so far is remove everything for the flybridge deck, sanded the deck, applied epoxy resin to any holes or questionable areas and painted the Deck with a couple coats of non skid. Previous owner had attempted to build more seating up there and screwed threw the deck in numerous spots and covered with silicone.

Forward cabin I resealed around/under the hatch.

Aft cabin I sealed a hole/crack in the bottom of the rear wall lip on the exterior.

This summer I will work on the windows. I also plan on drilling few holes under the deck from inside the engine room and heads so any water that intrusion from the deck will drip into the bilge and not stay trapped or continue to migrate aft to the rear cabin. Someone has already addressed the teak decks but there is still water in there. So starting from the top and working our way down.

This is our learning boat. We are new to boat ownership. Oh boy the lessons we are getting
CharlieO. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 12:14 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
UPDATE:

While investigating the water intrusion I ground out a channel around the forward part of the exterior of the window (Again, I've done this with three other window frames but failed to do it to this one as this was my learning window and my procedures evolved).

I did find some voids where I thought water would come in if it was an exterior issue but noticed that the surfactant streaks on the interior seemed more inset than the voids I observed when examining the area through the hull with a super bright flashlight.

It was my hope that if I could see through the hull in same area as the streaks it would indicate water intrusion from the exterior. So that information confirmed for me that it was seeping through the interior housing. I filled the exterior channel with Totalfair fairing compound and moved on.

On the inside I carved out a new channel along the top edge seal between the wood housing and whatever compound was put there by the original makers for a barrier for the window frame. There I began to observe wet wood. Wet wood was present along all of the areas of the top window frame that I exposed.

I knew from my previous work removing the headliner above this frame that there was no wood present in the cabin-top. It didn’t eliminate the possibility that water was running along the fiberglass cabin-top and getting into the wood housing but the headliner was bone dry and showed no presence of water, ever. So I concluded (to great relief) that this must be a more localized issue and not something far more grievous coming from some untraceable source somewhere else on the boat. So I had to trace the source.

Using an endoscope I forgot I owned; I explored a couple gaps in the wood frame above the window to try to see what was going on. Immediately I noticed a large screw coming through the fiberglass housing on a radius corner on the aft starboard quarter. (PHOTO: Look up towards cabin top from beneath screw) There appeared to be some sealant around the base of the screw but nonetheless I reached my hand up through the window to the outside to see if I could feel what the screw might be holding to the boat and I felt the mahogany trim that runs along the entirety of the window.

On the exterior I observed the quality of the trim and found it to be the most likely cause of the water intrusion into the starboard housing. I noticed bungs where screws were entering through the fiberglass and that there were enough screws to speak for the consistent wetness I had found all along the top of the window frame. The trim also looked to be in rough shape in some spots.

I’m not entirely sure what I’ll do yet but I’ll post updates as this work continues. I’m relieved to see signs that it might not be a leak running from 30 feet away. A little concerned how to fix this without destroying the trim work. It’s difficult to find mahogany wood and around here and even more difficult to cut it in to match.

Any thoughts? I could removed the bungs, try to get the screws out and just inject 5200 in and hope that helps? I could removed the entire trimming and seal the house and then add 5200? Has anyone else done this before?
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_3101 2.jpg   Screen Shot 2022-05-14 at 8.32.31 AM.jpg   Screen Shot 2022-05-14 at 8.26.46 AM.jpg   IMG_3110 2.jpg   IMG_3143 2.jpg  

IMG_3141.jpg   aft bath radius corner screw .jpg   IMG_3146.jpg   IMG_3148.jpg  
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 12:26 PM   #15
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,289
Do not use 5200 for that. If you have any more issues if you use 5200 it will be VERY difficult to remove it. If you are working with just the trim use epoxy or thickened epoxy to repair it. Then install it with something more like Sika 291. Only use 5200 for things like transducers, etc that will never need to be removed or worked on again.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 12:55 PM   #16
Guru
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,877
Condensation onto the window trough (edge of plywood) have produced wet wood stain trail. Cleaned up this wood and applied captain Tolley. It seems to be working. Once satisfied I will apply as skin of caulking.
I had already caulked around the window outside, so it had to be now from inside.
__________________
SteveK AKA Soo Valley
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 04:14 PM   #17
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,421
Greetings,
Mr. a. I would make every effort to carefully remove that trim and do a proper repair behind it. Deal with replacement and matching when and IF necessary. The trim looks due for a cleaning and refinishing, both outside and most probably inside (the surface that sits next to the cabin side). The whole trim piece should be rebedded IMO.
You're doing a nice job chasing leaks so far so why wimp out now?

Gobbing stuff at a leak seldom meets with long term success. As noted above, do NOT use 5200.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 10:43 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Do not use 5200 for that. If you have any more issues if you use 5200 it will be VERY difficult to remove it. If you are working with just the trim use epoxy or thickened epoxy to repair it. Then install it with something more like Sika 291. Only use 5200 for things like transducers, etc that will never need to be removed or worked on again.
I like the epoxy route more, assuming I can dry it out sufficiently (weíve got time to cook it for weeks with a heat lamp if needed)

Is 291 an elastomeric sealant? I havenít read up on it in a long time and forget the specifics. I have lots of Sudbury we were planning on using for the windows and if 291 is similar it may work just as well.

Thanks for the responses!
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 11:14 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,289
I usually use elastomeric caulk on plastics like HDPE.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2022, 11:21 PM   #20
Veteran Member
 
City: Southeast Alaska
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy
Vessel Model: 1979 Albin Trawler 36'
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. a. I would make every effort to carefully remove that trim and do a proper repair behind it. Deal with replacement and matching when and IF necessary. The trim looks due for a cleaning and refinishing, both outside and most probably inside (the surface that sits next to the cabin side). The whole trim piece should be rebedded IMO.
You're doing a nice job chasing leaks so far so why wimp out now?

Gobbing stuff at a leak seldom meets with long term success. As noted above, do NOT use 5200.
Noted on the 5200. Appreciate the info. I feel like thatís the right approach with removing the trim work and sealing it properly. Any insight on how to cut it off? Iíve used a oscillating blade for other work but have broken a great amount of interior trim pieces 😂
albinalaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
trawler, weeping, window leaks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012