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Old 09-15-2020, 03:47 PM   #121
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Have the utmost respect for professional mariners and navy. Unlike recreational folks they don’t get to pick their season and they’re usage of “weather window” is entirely different as well. Navy is even further confined by the mission. Think what you’ve seen is several orders of magnitude greater than me puddling around. In 35 years can count the sleepless night on my digits. However for stores we double what’s calculated as our likely best transit and don’t hesitate for a second to divert or change plans. Big advantage the recreational boater has is when you realize there’s no schedule that’s worth risking your life.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:59 PM   #122
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I now, how about 100 miles off New Foundland, winter, knocking off ice topsides, North Sea, maintain station at 5 knots in a 50 mile circle for 30 days on a WWII vintage Navy destroyer, radar equipped for the “Dew Line extension at sea.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:21 PM   #123
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Funny, that's exactly how wind and solar operate here in California.
It's certainly a different picture over here.

Solar and wind are the cheapest method of power supply in Australia and no longer require any subsidies. This is in part due to our natural gas prices being much higher than in North America (even though this year Australia has risen to the world's biggest exporter of LNG)

The Australian coal fired power stations are no longer profitable without government subsidies, and there are now calls to help this dying industry.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:50 PM   #124
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Going offshore is way overrated, as nobody ever chooses to stay there, once they've been there.

Ted
My ideal offshore boat for some kind of adventure ocean crossing idea is a decently designed sailing catamaran in the mid 40 foot range to go somewhere else. Otherwise your right, the open ocean far from land is very much not a destination in itself.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:16 PM   #125
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Research and development on biodiesel from algae continues and BP, Exxon/Mobile and others are investing heavily in it. Our company spun out of one of the companies doing the synthetic biology behind it. It’s probably 15 years away from being really ready for economically viable and deployable. They have made good strides but still have a long way to go. Fifteen years goes by pretty quickly though....

I think we don’t have to worry about fuel for our toys, it’s more about the impact on the environment that is a concern IMO.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:07 AM   #126
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Wish I had access to my photos, I have some pictures I took in India 3 - 4 years ago, with a family of four (mother, father, and two kids) on a single motorcycle!

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In a previous life during a trip on my way to Agra, we had 6 on a bicycle and 10 on a motorcycle...
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:17 AM   #127
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There are very few places in the world you are alone. Once youre off the shelf... Theres a peace and beauty you find there. No light pollution so the night skies are magical... They say a man who has gone to sea is ruined for land.
I loved nights at sea -- you captured the experience with your description. Nothing like a night watch in the cockpit, tucked up against the cabin while the boat sails itself. Quiet but for the sounds of sailing. Water "shusshing" alongside the boat, the moonglade making a golden path to your stern as it rides up, then slides down the swells. You're alone but for your sailing partner asleep below, and perhaps a few dolphins who come by to keep you company.

****
Of course a night snug in your bunk, in the quiet of a Georgia marsh is not all bad either.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:37 AM   #128
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Guess we’ll agree to disagree. The promo for a prior pacific Seacraft I owned said (paraphrase) the voyage should be as enjoyable as the destination. I kind of like the hum of a good power boat with a bone in its teeth. Knowing all is working well as I chug along. The sea is the sea. Think it matters little what you’re on. Same problems and the same beauty with fairly minor variations in the big scheme of things. The admiral and I are not children in the backseat saying”are we there yet”.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:49 AM   #129
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From the famous song....and accurate as he**.....


"Does any one know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:18 AM   #130
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Not doing Lake Superior in November. Not a professional mariner. Just a mom and pop messing around in boats.

Been doing this for 35+ years.Been in one true storm (force 10) in all that time. That was in a coastal setting (Gulf of Maine) when NOAA had several bouys out and didn’t tell anyone. Simple trip from South West Harbor Maine to Duxbury Mass. turned into a horror show. Sure plenty of line squalls and a very rare gale but survival conditions once and that was from failure of weather reporting in a system now antiquated.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:22 AM   #131
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Seems like you are talking bluewater and yes dangerous storms are for the most part avoidable...not necessarily discomfort though.... which can also turn the minutes to hours in our little boats.


Heavy weather in a sailboat (not survival conditions) is a bit different in a power vessel...even with stabilizers.



like Rich pointed out...is why some of us do the ditch and sleep like babies.....


I am NOT saying either is better....
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:25 AM   #132
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Not doing Lake Superior in November. Not a professional mariner. Just a mom and pop messing around in boats.
Wise decision!!
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:15 PM   #133
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What ever happened to biodiesel from algae? Just clean the hull, put it in a digester and make your own!

Here in the south, we have "Kudzu" - a plant that grows so fast you can see it moving! Convert that to biodiesel - set for life!
Sounds like back to the future. Just dump the garbage into the reactor!
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:38 PM   #134
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cost per ton mile

The cost per ton mile of various modes of transportation is as follows:
Cheapest: ship
Next: pipeline (a previous post missed this one)

Next: rail
and everything else is much higher
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:55 PM   #135
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Will trawlers disappear

Green line hybrids are trawlers (full displacement hull not utilizing sails for power). Most of us own trawlers because they are seaworthy, fuel efficient hulls capable of long distance, albeit slow, travel. Technology will only make this more true in the short term. When we can produce a seaworthy planing hull, not requiring an internal combustion engine, at an affordable cost; trawlers beware. Until then Im keeping my Albin.
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:27 PM   #136
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The decline of trawlers, just like sailboats, will be the ever-increasing desire to go faster, not the lack of affordable diesel.
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:28 PM   #137
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The middle class, the prime consumers of recreational boats is getting smaller and smaller, at least in the Western world.

A generation of people living in their parents house, renting a basement suite, or building tiny homes is not going to be all that interested in trawlers or anything they have to pay moorage on.

It will be similar to 100 plus years ago. Yachts for the wealthy and punts, rowboats, canoes, and small sailboats and E-boats for the proletariat.

Larry Ellison is the new Lipton.

A handful of us will maintain classic plastic boats as an act of passion, like eccentric Englishmen with their steam launches.

Marinas space will be hard to find or expensive as they are turned into yacht basins or waterfront living.

Although it may sound dystopian, I happen to like little boats and the simple joy they bring. So I'll be okay with it.

[Tongue somewhat in cheek]
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:48 PM   #138
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Read the thread on trawler admiration comments....
I see many as dreamers thinking one day doing what some of us are....
There will be sailboats...and trawlers in the future...how many? good question.....
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Old 09-18-2020, 05:06 PM   #139
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NS think you’re right. We had a working harbor. Now that’s pretty much gone. Then we had cruising sailboats and power craft. Now that’s most been replaced by small center consoles and cuddies. The commercial shoreside businesses are gone replaced by condos and apartments. No chandlery but there’s a west marine 2 miles from the harbor. NS it happening already.
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Old 09-18-2020, 05:10 PM   #140
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Will trawlers dissappear

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Trend in transportation is away from petrol and diesel. Marine technology is mainly derivative from transportation. Oil and gas are going to be all time lows as this trend continues. More dramatic recently due to covid but the trend predates covid and will continue after it passes. Other than petrochemicals and plastics consumption is down. This is necessary to combat climate change but also is inevitable as alternative energy technologies improve to the point that even with improvements in internal combustion engines they are cost competitive and non polluting.
For trawlers the goal is range for the full displacement vessels and is energy intensive for faster vessels. Hybrid boats such as green line and Arksen fill the void to some extent but for those without deep pockets diesel remains the way to carry the most BTUs in the smallest package at the least cost.
We run on ancient dead plankton from the age of dinosaurs and before. Are our vessels the dinosaurs? Is there a future for trawler Yachts for non 1%ers?

In our lifetime, no. For numerous reasons. In our children's lifetimes, probably. Just as much of what we've known throughout our lifetime as normal will disappear because of the stupidity going on right now. Or maybe they won't disappear but just move on to a place where people are smarter.
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