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Old 01-27-2020, 10:45 AM   #21
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One challenge, whether Onspot or any other service is the rising popularity of streaming. It was a few kids listening to music but that's nothing like the mass number of people now streaming television with it's much higher demands. Right now, we're traveling in Europe and currently a group of 11 of us and everyone with us has Roku with them to watch US television at night.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:03 AM   #22
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I tested our WiFi this morning and OnSpot 5g gave 47mbps when our island WiFi ATT modem was giving 17mbps. This was in Nassau so YMMV in other places.
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:32 PM   #23
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We got one of these a few years ago and it definitely improves our range at the marina and it's cheap enough. Downside is that is need 120V.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jsplichal2 View Post
I'm not a big tech guy, but I have done some "research" on the topic. I came across this article which I found interesting. Not being a tech guy I don't know how accurate it is but an interesting read.

https://seabits.com/marina-wifi-hard/
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And this article is his recommended systems.

https://seabits.com/best-boat-internet-systems/
Thanks! Those are my articles. A good one to read to help understand why WiFi is hard in marinas is at https://seabits.com/marina-wifi-hard/

I currently manage and maintain 10 different marina WiFi networks here in the PNW and they require constant attention. I'm also involved in many more networks on land, and they do too, but are more predictable given the layout and space.

Marinas are harder because of the size/space/layout and the interference. Not just "in the air" between boats, but the boat itself. Most of the marinas I visit, and those that I manage, you can get a good WiFi signal standing on the dock. Once you enter the boat, it starts sucking, if it works at all.

The only truly successful marina setups I've seen use high quality, professional equipment (most don't) with many radios per access point, proper professional software and site surveys, and blanket the space with as many access points as possible, which is waaaaay more than you think are necessary.

The biggest challenge with a system like this is cost - it can get extremely expensive to have this type of pro equipment to the density required.

Hence why boosters are so popular, and usually a much more reliable way for a boater to get connected. They also have a great side effect of being able to be used in bays and other anchorages with houses on shore that might have WiFi you can get to
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:45 AM   #25
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What I find interesting, and more than a little bit embarrassing for marinas, is that this is a solvable/solved problem, and on a much, much larger scale than a marina.


The irony here is that everyone is turning to cellular as the faster, multi-user, more reliable, able to support streaming, no buffering solution. Yet with cellular, there is one access point every 5-10km, if not spaced much further apart. And that single access point serves thousands of simultaneous users, all doing whatever they want to do, and happy with performance. It's all been engineered to work, and works well.


I actually think its shameful that my phone provides better internet service for my whole boat, than does a marina wifi access point no more than 100 feet away. Most shameful. There is no excuse.


Yes, it's hard, as Steve Mitchell has explained. But so are lots of things, and that's why we call it "work". Keep up the good work, Steve, as you have demonstrated that it can be solved. More marina's need to get the message. If a marina can't provide power and internet, arguably equally important, I haven't got much use for them.
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:18 AM   #26
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What I find interesting, and more than a little bit embarrassing for marinas, is that this is a solvable/solved problem, and on a much, much larger scale than a marina.


The irony here is that everyone is turning to cellular as the faster, multi-user, more reliable, able to support streaming, no buffering solution. Yet with cellular, there is one access point every 5-10km, if not spaced much further apart. And that single access point serves thousands of simultaneous users, all doing whatever they want to do, and happy with performance. It's all been engineered to work, and works well.


I actually think its shameful that my phone provides better internet service for my whole boat, than does a marina wifi access point no more than 100 feet away. Most shameful. There is no excuse.


Yes, it's hard, as Steve Mitchell has explained. But so are lots of things, and that's why we call it "work". Keep up the good work, Steve, as you have demonstrated that it can be solved. More marina's need to get the message. If a marina can't provide power and internet, arguably equally important, I haven't got much use for them.
I read all the reasons marinas don't have good Wifi and all I can say is they're all excuses as you've indicated. It's like saying the restrooms are dirty because of all the people who use them or the dumpster is overflowing because we have so many boaters here. Wifi is an important offering and that shouldn't mean lousy Wifi but good quality, whatever it takes. Yes, it may be expensive but so are your other services. I can add that your system that is adequate today, won't be tomorrow so you'll continually have to expand and upgrade. The excuses of distance and area to cover are lousy as the marina is what it is. Someone didn't just suddenly sneak in more docks. The excuse of two many users doing too much is just as feeble. Is it, "We'll provide Wifi as long as you'll all promise not to use it".

It reminds me a bit of Boston Market and their Prime Rib. Offer it starting at 5:00 PM but run out anywhere from 6:00 to 7:30. Regardless they run out every night. They only cook one roast per night. Demand is great but they'll never know what it is as they'll never fulfill it. One arrives at 6:30 and they're out and that only loses a customer. Answer is arrive earlier but doesn't help them as they're not going to sell more regardless. Actually heard one executive say "We don't sell enough to justify cooking more." How can you say that when you run out every night. You're limiting what you sell.

To Marina owners and managers, you are supposed to be businesspersons not just dock workers. Act like it.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:29 AM   #27
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We have been down this rode with our outstations at Seattle Yacht Club. First we had just one antenna on the club house. Soon we realized this worked until the marina was half full. Then we added multiple antennas on the dock. This solved connectivity issues but soon we ran into issues with the broadband supplier. They wouldn’t gives us enough capacity. Eventually we found a way around that. We still have challenges at our more remote outstations in Canada, luckily most boats at the remote locations have their own Satellite TV systems.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:13 AM   #28
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Our marina is private, and owned by the members.

We know how much it would cost to buy the equipment and bandwidth which would allow everyone who spends the night aboard on a busy weekend to stream live TV. The minute they hear that number, most members decide they don't need it that badly, after all.

We cover the marina with a decent signal, and enough bandwidth to allow most members to surf the web, check e-mail and stream audio. But as soon as a few of them start watching streaming TV services, it goes downhill fast.

What we've found is that the demand is unlimited, and always growing. It's not economically feasible to eliminate all complains. Instead, those who really need reliable connections use their cell phones. I have a plan that allows tethering. Some install satellite dishes on their boats or pilings.

Comparing the cell technology to what a small business like a marina can purchase is pretty much apples to oranges. The real cost is not in the access points, but in the connection to the internet.
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:57 PM   #29
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Bear in mind that phones do not make reliable hotspots. Sure, "you can" but phone batteries aren't designed for a constant use scenario like a hotspot. You're asking for trouble with the battery overheating and expanding. If you're only planning on temporary, intermittent use... fine. But if you're planning on multi-hour streaming... get an actual hotspot setup.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:16 PM   #30
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Pete,



My last marina's Wifi was horrible (ISDN speed). After a year of frustration I gave up & went the DirecTV route. I built a bracket for the dish to mount anything from the size of 1 4x4 post to a telephone pole. Now I have My own link with max speed, no worries about the marina logging my searches. I can take it everywhere, and have it set up in 30 minutes after getting everything else tied up. Beats any marinas WiFi hands down.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #31
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It’s only money, that’s all it takes: we have the technology. Of course this is a group that started a two page thread with survey about how terrible it was that they had to pay for parking......
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:44 PM   #32
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Bear in mind that phones do not make reliable hotspots. Sure, "you can" but phone batteries aren't designed for a constant use scenario like a hotspot. You're asking for trouble with the battery overheating and expanding. If you're only planning on temporary, intermittent use... fine. But if you're planning on multi-hour streaming... get an actual hotspot setup.
Very good point. It's also good to note that many hotspot devices are also not supposed to be plugged in and on 24x7. I've had a couple of puffed batteries after leaving some connected with the battery in while testing for weeks.

There are some, like the Netgear Nighthawk series, that allow you to pull the battery out and run it just off of AC power, which is nice so that the battery doesn't fail, but if you lose AC power....
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:31 PM   #33
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Given how quickly you reach your 20gb hotspot limit when streaming I doubt that will be a real risk.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:35 PM   #34
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I just put a small fan on it and it stays cool..no fan and yes it gets hot.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:32 PM   #35
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All this talk about lousy Marina whfi seems like a moot point in todays day and age.

Many cellular providers have “unlimited” plans that in effect throttle after 50 gig.

Myself I have a 50 gig plan through one provider and a 60 gig plan through a different provider.

I have NEVER even dreamed of connecting to Marina WIFI

What I have is a router that has two cellular modems. I prioritize my cellular connection automatically based on availability, and can manually prioritize one over another when I for example run low on one plan, or get a higher data rate on a particular carrier.

GUYS, In my opinion the days of relying on your marina for internet should be over.

With current technology there is not a time I cannot stream movies, and I see little reason to rely on my marina for data when my cellular provider already offers that service at great prices and fantastic quality.

Cellular companies do this for a living.
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Old 02-02-2020, 08:59 AM   #36
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GUYS, In my opinion the days of relying on your marina for internet should be over.

With current technology there is not a time I cannot stream movies, and I see little reason to rely on my marina for data when my cellular provider already offers that service at great prices and fantastic quality.

Cellular companies do this for a living.
This is the conclusion our marina came to. The cost of all new access points and much higher data rates just couldn't be justified as more and more people switch to using their existing cellular service. We did beef up the network, but only to provide decent coverage, not support the kind of throughput people might experience at home when they're the only ones using the WAN connection.
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