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Old 12-12-2018, 07:04 AM   #21
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"Houses cost a lot more now, taxes are higher. Less money is available to most millennials."

I think on an inflation adjusted basis houses cost about the same for the past 100 years or so. Taxes are the handicap.

My dad was a union plumber in NYC he saved lots of paperwork, in the 1950's he made $75 a week. His take home after taxes (in NYC!) federal tax , SS and union dues was $68 a week.

Think of an individual today making $750 a week $680 take home ?

A long time ago a gent suggested , "If it Flies , Floats or Frolics" its better to rent than purchase.

Todays kids seem to be following that advice.

While yacht clubs are mostly gone , the boat assemblers realize skills are almost non existent so side stick docking can allow a newby to have fun in a 50fter and a 2 week rental..
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:15 AM   #22
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The boats younger people are buying has changed also. When we were in our 30s, 26’ Carvers, Reinels, Bayliners, Chriscrafts/weekenders were everywhere. Now the center consoles and wake board type boats have seemed to replace those. The dry stack storage facilities are doing great. Look at a sandbar on a Saturday or Sunday when the weathers good.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:09 AM   #23
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As a Millenial (hate the word millenial as its usually used in a negative tone) and having been boating since I was about 10, It has always been my passion.

The financial climate has changed dramatically since 2008. Having bought multiple boats in gradually larger sizes has been a trip. It has been horrible and great at the same time.

I would like to think we are well off financially. Have a high paying job in the financial services industry and can pretty much afford all of our toys in cash. Pretty responsible with savings and expenses and have a single digit debt to income ratio. Credit scores in the 800's.

I am constantly met with "no comparable credit history" when we are shopping for loans for our boats. While we can afford in cash, our money is working much harder for us in investments and other financial vehicles. We live in a Tiny House which we built and paid for outright. This gives us the freedom to travel and buy toys without a massive mortgage or rent payment.

This however makes things very difficult with the banks. They don't like that you haven't had a mortgage. Even though your combined available credit on credit cards could buy "the toy" on top of the cash in the bank.

OK, that's enough ranting for now. But point is, even for those ambitious millennials out there that want to break into boating, and have the means, it is very very difficult to do these days when even a simple center console costs bukku bucks. Ofcourse used boats are an option, but a lot of people these days are looking for shiny new turn key. The appeal of an older boat is probably less desirable given that it will require upgrades, work, etc.
AdmiralS,

You're doing things right, unlike the vast majority of Millenial that feel someone else owes them a living.

Don't get too hung up over banks, but if you want to improve your "lend ability", take out a home loan on your house, but use the money to get another house for rental, perhaps with a mortgage and let the banks dollars work for you. There a better ways with seller financing, but won't help your credit.

I'm a fan of not using banks for the most part, and ABSOLUTELY, do not waste money on consumer debt for anything.... cars, boats, etc., only a personal residence where there is some benefit.

Now, if you can make the item revenue producing, different story.

But with all your toys paid for, and the rental house paying your home expenses, you'll be MILES ahead in years to come. Just take a calculator and figure it out.

You're right about Millenials, they do have a bad reputation and from what I've seen I would not likely hire one. Most have earned that reputation.

Best to you.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:36 AM   #24
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You're right about Millenials, they do have a bad reputation and from what I've seen I would not likely hire one. Most have earned that reputation.

Best to you.
They may have a bad reputation to you, but not to many of us. Our CEO is 35, hired at 29. Our COO is 30, hired at 24. Our CIO is 30, hired at 24. For another entity, our CEO and founder is 20, started the business right after turning 19.

Overall at least 60% of all our managers are Millennials. My wife is only 3 years outside being a Millennial. Oh and next year, Millennials will surpass Baby Boomers in number.

As to boat ownership, they're primarily willing to boat with us, except the CEO does own a boat and they'll typically go out in her boat when we're off cruising. However, she bought a boat so the others didn't feel a need even though they love boating.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:57 AM   #25
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The stat that 4 percent owned in 2005 compared to 2 percent in 2015 is very heavily skewed because of the financial situations of the times,

2005, Boat, RV and “toy” sales were in the stratosphere due to easy money from the housing market. Buying a boat was as easy as signing a second mortgage.

2015 only 3 years past the housing crash and you better have a pocket full of your own gold to buy anything, Boat and toy sales barely starting to recover.
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:26 AM   #26
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I can't to 'Millenials', but I do know that I have friends who have kids who went to the same State College that my wife and I went to. The yearly tuition at that school is so outrageously more than when we went it is unfathomable. The increase is far greater the average cost of living.

We both graduated without any college debt. Not only are more kids graduating with college debt, but the amount of college debt is staggering.

We started boating (overnight) in our mid 30's. It took us roughly 10 years to start finding people our own age out cruising. That is to say, it wasn't until we reached our mid 40's before other's of our age started venturing into boating.

I do see plenty of millennials out boating in day boats. They stern tie to the beach in overloaded boats, drink and party, then go home at night.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #27
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For a Millennail to buy a yacht would be like voting for Biden or Romney or Clinton.
The Millennaill would vote for Beto or other young runners that recently won the House.

They're not dy'in to tell their friends they just bought a trawler.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:00 PM   #28
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The boats younger people are buying has changed also. When we were in our 30s, 26’ Carvers, Reinels, Bayliners, Chriscrafts/weekenders were everywhere. Now the center consoles and wake board type boats have seemed to replace those. The dry stack storage facilities are doing great. Look at a sandbar on a Saturday or Sunday when the weathers good.
Good point Larry. They also don't feel they need to join a yacht club either.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:18 PM   #29
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unlike the vast majority of Millenial that feel someone else owes them a living.
Quote:
You're right about Millenials, they do have a bad reputation and from what I've seen I would not likely hire one. Most have earned that reputation.

Complete, utter baloney."Alternative facts" indeed.

I do get sort of a kick about these old fogey threads on forums. I guarantee you every older generation for thousands of years has said the same about the next ones down the line. It's particularly ironic when I hear fellow Baby Boomers say these ridiculous, baseless things. Buncha lazy, acid head pot smoking hippy communists every damn one of them. Or so the old folks said back then.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:16 PM   #30
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Lepke makes a good point. The percentage of income younger people are paying for housing is a higher percentage than we had, especially along the coasts. The lack of trade jobs and higher costs are also valid. Our society can also support so many Business Degree graduates, and many kids in the US don't want to grind out 4 years in school for a science or engineering degree. That is why we bring people in from other countries to fill these jobs.

Personally, I didn't want to do the boating thing until we had the mortgage and other aspects squared away so my boat was a surfboard. No right or wrong answers here, whatever people are comfortable with.

My wife runs HR for a large corporation, so this topic is in her wheel house. Many of the generalizations about the Mil's and other groups are accurate. But, they also have some positive factors that may surpass us boomers including their desire to work for organizations that contribute to society, environmental awareness, volunteering, etc.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:32 PM   #31
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Personal observation from ones I am related to and witness and admittedly this is a small group and obviously does not mean all are like this.

Housing must be new and modern, couldn't possibly live in an affordable doitupper house like first home buyers did previously.

Cars must be new and preferably european , couldn't possibly drive a ten year or older car even if it is in fantastic condition.

Boats must be new and preferably a catamaran, preferably euro, and if wanting to race must be a foiler.

Holidays, must appear to be first class all the way, have to get those Instagram snaps up looking like kardashian.

Image is everything even if you have to hock yourself to the eyeballs to get there.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:49 PM   #32
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According to the Pew research group I’m part of the “ Silent Age Group “ ( 73-90) so I have no comment.
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:43 PM   #33
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According to the Pew research group I’m part of the “ Silent Age Group “ ( 73-90) so I have no comment.
Speaking of Pew, here are some interesting factoids:

Millennial households earn more than young adult households did in the past | Pew Research Center
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:33 PM   #34
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As a millennial, here are my thoughts...

Boating is a really broad category. Most of us on the forum are interested in cruising powerboats, which is a tiny portion of the overall market, but the market I'm most familiar with.

Cruising requires time, money, and health. For millennials, health hasn't become an issue, so it's really just time and money. Most who have the time don't have the money, and most who have the money don't have the time. Cruising just isn't very compatible with full time employment.

Many of the "rites of passage"—marriage, home ownership, etc.—seem to happen later for millennials. This is for a couple reasons I think. First, millennials are seeking more education. More fields require a graduate degree, and there are many graduate degrees which simply didn't exist when our parents were in school or entering the workforce. Since people are in school longer, the rest of their lives get delayed a bit. Second, because of all this extra education, and the insane rates of inflation in higher education, millennials are burdened with more student debt than previous generations. Combine this with entering the workforce later, and it's easy to see how big purchases (houses, boats) get pushed back until later in life.

Other factors...

Many people are now hired as "contractors" working at large companies. They don't get much (if any) paid time off and they have little job security. No free time, no boat!

There are lots of activities competing for free time and money. Most of my friends prioritize really active hobbies at this stage of life...cycling, skiing, climbing, backpacking, etc. These are less expensive to get into than boating, and more physically demanding (so better done when young and healthy).

Finally...a big one...is that the boating industry and a lot of "old salts" just aren't that welcoming to newcomers who don't fit their idea of what a boater/cruiser should be. When I was boat shopping, I experienced brokers that just didn't have the time of day for me because I was "too young". I know single women in boating who use only a first initial and last name in boating-related emails so they're taken more seriously. So many "old salts" descend into condescending, scary spiels when talking with people who are trying to get into boating.

But, the big problem is not that millennials aren't buying boats, since I think that'll change as we get older/wealthier/more secure.

The BIG problem I see is not enough millennials are going into the marine trades. Most of the tradespeople I hire (and see on the docks) are 50+. Frankly, working in the trades was never discussed as a possibility growing up. Not at home, not at school, not on TV. The focus was entirely on going to a four year college, then getting some work experience and going back to grad school. Won't somebody start telling kids that there are good jobs, making living wages, in the trades, and there's nothing wrong with working with your hands or getting dirty!?!?
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:39 PM   #35
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Young folks also have less time so it makes sense that they have smaller and trailerable boats. Lot of millenials at the boat show looking at ski and fishing boats. it would be interesting to hear what the manufacturers are saying.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:48 PM   #36
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Greetings,
THREAD DRIFT: Mr. R. Very good post (#60). I too am of the mind that there is too much little emphasis on "the trades". Given the high tuition fees it is counter productive for colleges and universities to support or suggest alternate fields of education (apprenticeships). The banks are profiting as well from the interest on those student loans. Vicious circle.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:55 PM   #37
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Markets have changed a lot. Can the manufacturers change to keep up? After Roadtrek, Wininebago is the largest manufacturer of the Class B vans. They also bought ChrisCraft last June.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...es/2278234002/
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:59 PM   #38
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I think the dip in boat ownership for young people in 2005 compared to 2015 as the article states is mostly due to the recession in 2008. we saw a huge reduction in the supply of used boats here in South Florida after 2008. Most boat builders filed for protection and were not building new boats, hence supply goes down prices went up.
Not a freindly market for new participants.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:55 PM   #39
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I think Gen Z may do even less boating. I am over 62 and have a Gen Z 16 year old son. Here are my thoughts and some of this may apply to millenials: (1) Boat technology has failed to keep up. Most things Z's touch work, and work most of the time with little maintenance. Think cars, i-phones, computers, scooters, even when used work well. Boats don't work like that. I am fascinated by articles I read onTF how many things can go wrong on a boat - to me its fun (I have 1966 Galaxie convertible so I know maintenance). (2) Using boats requires expertise, that's not true for cars, phones, computers, houses, etc. For example, docking a boat is a nightmare unless you are a "seaman with many years". I have 2017 29ft Sea Ray on Hilton Head, with every option Sea Ray offered - but no bow thruster is even available. Docking this thing in a 7 foot tide cycle with wind and perpendicular docks is a challenge. I gave my son the wheel to dock it the other day, and he put a few scuffs on the boat's gel coat ($600 bucks worth!) against the dock - stuff we'll talk about years from now around a few beers and laugh. His interest in boats is not there given this experience. I enjoy the challenge of learning spring line docking adn so does wife, but this generation may expect things to work right from day one - and they will be the customer some day. Just some thoughts.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:13 AM   #40
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There are also way more things vying for their attention. Most of which do not require the time, money, or effort to get proficient at. With today's instant gratification society, why waste time messing around getting a boat ready, launching it, using it, retrieving it, cleaning it, maintaining it, etc. when there are so many other things things that can be done RIGHT NOW! FOMO and all that.

A boat requires a whole lot of hands on time to maintain and keep up. How many millennials do you see who have any interest in maintaining their cars, let alone a boat. When was the last time you actually saw someone waxing their car? Most of them just want to drop their car off somewhere, play with their phone until it is fixed, and wonder why it is taking soooo looooooonnnnng!
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