Who has/uses AIS?

[rslifkin]

Somewhere busy like NY Harbor, I expect I'd want a much tighter CPA filter than in some places. If it's not going to get within 1/2 mile (maybe even a bit less) of me in the next 15 minutes, I don't need to know it exists in that situation.

 

[Hippocampus]

We’ve gone through NYC more times in the last few years than I have digits. Some times there’s a fair bit of traffic at the Gate. Again in spots down the East River and tip of Manhattan to Staten Island. Although have found hugging the Brooklyn side from the end of Manhattan on down helps throughout the trip it’s always what’s behind you rather than what’s in front of you and can be easily seen that’s more troublesome. I have me at the wheel and the admiral looking aft. We both scan sideways.
Radar is of marginal help. I know the chock points by now. Know if there’s a bunch of big stuff about to come through one of those I’ll either speed way up or slow down as to not be there with them. This is at a point they aren’t on radar. I’ve never called to ask intentions. Think that’s stupid as their intentions are obvious and they can’t do anything about it. Think it’s my obligation to not be in their way. AIS is a major tool for that to happen. This is particularly true for the section from LI sound to East River. Same around the small islands in the East River. The small high speed ferries and water taxis are the major hassle. The big Staten Island ones not so much. Again think it’s of little value to try and talk with them. A common pilot house chat is “do you see that ferry at 7 o’clock?” or similar. It’s south of Manhattan the dance really begins. Ships are rarely the problem. So one would think receive would suffice. However had one occasion we got behind a large garbage barge. Called him by name on 13 asking about passing. He told us to wait as there was a large fire boat in front of him. Said to wait until there was more separation between him and that boat. The fire boat didn’t show on radar as the barge/tug blocked it. It had no AIS signal. The chat was helpful.
Hit the same thing time to time in the AICW. But here a VHF chat is often helpful but so is knowing the characteristics of what’s coming at you or overtaking you. Even when you don’t have room vary course you can vary speed to intersect at a wider point or where there’s more draft or less current. Knowing what’s going on before things show on radar is a blessing. Haven’t got a radar to tell me name or size. Often speed and course isn’t the whole picture. Any outside source of information will take some mental processing and distract you from following water depths and course.
Have read other comments. Still don’t see any downside to having a TRANSCEIVER. It a few bucks and well worth it.

 

[psneeld]

How did rec boats stay out of the way of ships and large commercial traffic before AIS?

I know how so the question is more rhetorical.......

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The alleged use of an AIS Class B filter in crowded situations is interesting.

I hate driving my truck at night in busy areas because of all the headlights. I'm thinking of getting a filter that blocks out the headlights of any vehicle that is smaller than my Peterbuilt. Anybody see a legal issue here?

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm not convinced that ships are actually hiding class B AIS. There are plenty of smaller commercial vessels transmitting class B (as they're not required to have class A). And unless it's only an option on big ship nav gear, I've never seen a system that can hide based on AIS class.

Realistically, hiding class B targets is stupid, and if they ended up in a collision, I'd expect the ship to be found in violation of Rule 5, as they're intentionally not using information that could help them keep watch accurately. It would be much more practical to hide targets based on CPA and other factors so only targets of potential maneuvering concern are shown and the rest of the clutter isn't.

I've only passed through there a couple of times. I guess my point was that decluttering can be useful, and I can imagine that having this as a capability might be useful.

This filtering would be done at an individual screen level. I can choose whether to overlay AIS on my radar screen. Maybe I should be able to show class A only. Or Class B only. Whatever. Why not?

Posts like these caused me to review our AIS/MFD documentation... and so far, I'm pretty sure I have no way to filter out by transmission class. This with a Furuno FA-70 Class B+ AIS, and a TZT3 MFD.

I can show/not show all targets. I can show/not show identification info (a name), but a target symbol appears either way. I can highlight (and audibly alarm) targets based on CPA/TCPA. I can hide targets moving slower than X speed. Zooming the screen in and out changes how many AIS targets are visible at any given time.

Nothing offers any choices based on Class B, B+, or A. (That I've found so far... and I can generally read the manual well enough...)

I can show/not show AIS targets on the Garmin screen, next door... which is my radar display. I think I can bag the AIS names if I wanted to. I can do the CPA alarm. I can bag the alarm for slow targets. No way to surpress a subset by transmitter type.

Maybe that's a thing Class A systems can do? Or urban myth?

-Chris

 

[SteveK]

The alleged use of an AIS Class B filter in crowded situations is interesting.

I hate driving my truck at night in busy areas because of all the headlights. I'm thinking of getting a filter that blocks out the headlights of any vehicle that is smaller than my Peterbuilt. Anybody see a legal issue here?

If the glare bothers me I have started wearing my prescription sunglasses. Freaks out my wife, but I see very clearly using them. They are the wrap around motorcycle style which I think is what makes the difference, no light leakage from sides.

 

[psneeld]

The alleged use of an AIS Class B filter in crowded situations is interesting.

I hate driving my truck at night in busy areas because of all the headlights. I'm thinking of getting a filter that blocks out the headlights of any vehicle that is smaller than my Peterbuilt. Anybody see a legal issue here?

Not if they are legally obligated to stay out of your way and you still have other systems to warn you of their location.

 

[psneeld]

Posts like these caused me to review our AIS/MFD documentation... and so far, I'm pretty sure I have no way to filter out by transmission class. This with a Furuno FA-70 Class B+ AIS, and a TZT3 MFD.

I can show/not show all targets. I can show/not show identification info (a name), but a target symbol appears either way. I can highlight (and audibly alarm) targets based on CPA/TCPA. I can hide targets moving slower than X speed. Zooming the screen in and out changes how many AIS targets are visible at any given time.

Nothing offers any choices based on Class B, B+, or A. (That I've found so far... and I can generally read the manual well enough...)

I can show/not show AIS targets on the Garmin screen, next door... which is my radar display. I think I can bag the AIS names if I wanted to. I can do the CPA alarm. I can bag the alarm for slow targets. No way to surpress a subset by transmitter type.

Maybe that's a thing Class A systems can do? Or urban myth?

-Chris

Many of the ships mentioned might have those sophisticated nav systems that fully utilize Vector charting, are computer based and allow many different functions we small boaters don't have or even know about.

The literature is out there but I never saw a need yet to review the big boy nav systems.

 

[Hippocampus]

PS how did ships stay out of each others way before radar? Binoculars? Running lights? All help as does AIS does now. Perhaps we should talk about the USN accidents and contributions of absence of prudent navigation and use of navigational aids.
Think theirs two situations AIS is particularly helpful. High traffic areas. But also extremely low traffic areas. We’ve had AIS on a very high antenna and not using a splitter. You’re on night watch, bored, boats quiet because everyone else is sleeping. Chart plotter has been blank for hours as you’re far away from land. There’s rain or sea clutter or it’s lumpy enough things come and go on your radar screen. A AIS signal comes in and you know right away it’s real, what it is and where it’s going. Not infrequently you chat as that watch stander is just as bored as you. I like to stay miles away from the really big boys running at speed. AIS makes that easy to do.
We fairly frequently change magnification on our screens for multiple reasons. Frequently in high traffic areas AIS range is greater than radar. So see stuff of concern earlier on with AIS. Have the audible alarms off but the vessels of potential concern flash and change color. In the high density areas find radar gives more clutter as there’s more radar targets than AIS. As stated above if vessel clutter is an issue will turn down density of the overlays or turn it off and open another screen for AIS/radar.
Think resistance to transceivers is don’t boat in areas where collision or wakes are a concern, resistance to anything new(although AIS isn’t new), expense, lack of concern that others don’t see you. Have a close friend who used a flip phone until the point his broke and he couldn’t buy another. Now loves his smart phone. As Mikey said “try it…you’ll like it.”

 

[SteveK]

PS how did ships stay out of each others way before radar? Binoculars? Running lights? All help as does AIS does now. Perhaps we should talk about the USN accidents and contributions of absence of prudent navigation and use of navigational aids. ...............................

People actually looked where they were going and not checking all the various tech on the dash.

 

[psneeld]

I think sometimes many here spend more time "navigating" and keeping tabs on traffic in one day than I have for the last 15 years. I know many must spend WAYYYYY more time on the radio.

 

[rwidman]

I find AIS to be very useful and am very happy I installed it. I have a transceiver.

 

[Hippocampus]

Ps if that’s aimed at me I spend very little time on the radio. Days go by and sometimes weeks with out using it. Rather call on the phone entering a new to me marina and feel 16, 9, 13 should be used only when there’s no other options. I also avoid weekends when I can so there’s much less traffic. But I enjoy cruising and that means usually we’re in new to us places so unfortunately unlike the ocean do spend time laying out a course and following best we can and conditions allow. I’m guilty of wanting and using every tools available and that includes a AIS transceiver.

 

[Simi 60]

We have it
Use it when I feel the need so in areas with ship traffic and ferries.
Mostly run in stealth mode.

 

[Fletcher500]

I think sometimes many here spend more time "navigating" and keeping tabs on traffic in one day than I have for the last 15 years. I know many must spend WAYYYYY more time on the radio.

Or, too much time on forums.

 

[SeaMoose]

As a Great Lakes Boater relying on radar - and using it regardless of the conditions in order to be skilled at interpreting the results and properly tuning it - was all I thought I ever needed.

On the loop, especially the Tenn-Tom between Demopolis and Mobile - radar is all but useless as all you see are trees. Unless we were in morning fog - where we ran the radar at 1/4 mile range - radar was off. Many of the bends in the river are so tight there's no way you know there is oncoming traffic unless you have AIS, and being on the wrong side of the channel in a 6 1/2 knot boat meeting a barge could result in a really bad day.

In this video you can see what radar on the river looks like, and you can see how tight some of the bends are. At around the six minute mark I'm waiting for a barge/tow to emerge from a particularly tight bend, and need to wait for him to make the turn to prevent from running around in this year's shallow conditions.

A very small number of recreational vessels have failed to respond to my calls in passing situations. We encountered one guy on a 45 foot cocktail cruiser with a quarter million dollar price tag who - believe it or not - did not know how to use the radio - but this is a rare exception.

I would not recommend doing the loop without AIS after having just completed the rivers. I presently have receive only and am going to upgrade to transmit the month we are going to spend at islamora.

Alan & Darina Aboard Sea Moose
You Tube: The Adventures of Yorksie and Me

 

[PNK]

AIS or not?

I agree completely with TwistedTree, especially if you cruise where there is a lot of commercial traffic. I wouldn't want a boat that didn't have AIS, send and receive. Until my first experience sailing offshore I didn't appreciate how fast large cargo ships are moving, and how quickly they come up on you. On watch at night, being able to identify traffic, see its course and speed, and CPA, is invaluable. I know there are boats out there without it, just as there are boaters who don't properly use their nav lights, so like any other tool you can't rely on it blindly, but AIS is a great tool.
Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

Well I went in whole hog when I went “in”.
AIS, transmit and receive with a switch to defeat the transmit.
Upon the recommendation of the sale and set up the AIS, no picture of the vessel if there is a chance of pirating or kidnapping.
I am told the best to display the AIS is on the RADAR instead of the chart display. Seems the RADAR is more accurate than the charts. Don’t have to wait X number of months for an update

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Thank you SteveK.

 

[Inbreaker]

It doesn't come as a surprise to see that so many recognise that AIS contributes to safety.
I can also appreciate that are some (former midshipmen with James Cook, and others who, by virtue of their many years of sea time, can perfectly tune a radar in all conditions and intuitively calculate closest point of approach at a glance from changing bearings).
For these folk, the marginal increase in safety that AIS would bring will not warrant the expense or trouble. Maybe.

It seems to me though that perhaps we (because of course I too can see around corners and read vessel names) should spare a thought for people with less experience. For most, the availability of AIS will bring a significant increase in their ability to avoid collision and other unpleasantness. Perhaps we should not discourage them from adopting a simple and effective safety device by suggesting they just look out the window.

 

[fgarriso]

It doesn't come as a surprise to see that so many recognise that AIS contributes to safety.
I can also appreciate that are some (former midshipmen with James Cook, and others who, by virtue of their many years of sea time, can perfectly tune a radar in all conditions and intuitively calculate closest point of approach at a glance from changing bearings).
For these folk, the marginal increase in safety that AIS would bring will not warrant the expense or trouble. Maybe.

It seems to me though that perhaps we (because of course I too can see around corners and read vessel names) should spare a thought for people with less experience. For most, the availability of AIS will bring a significant increase in their ability to avoid collision and other unpleasantness. Perhaps we should not discourage them from adopting a simple and effective safety device by suggesting they just look out the window.

Do you have an AIS transceiver?
Have you ever used one?

 

[SteveK]

Looking around corners, avoiding collisions.
Have seen this said a few times now. If indeed that is a concern for you, then by all means get AIS and get it with a load alarm to alert you of a collision course possibility. That makes it a 100% safety tool.

I know if I had a close or possibly close encounter I would quickly have it installed.

 

[Jeff F]

Think resistance to transceivers is don’t boat in areas where collision or wakes are a concern, resistance to anything new(although AIS isn’t new), expense...

Don't discount expense. Recieve can be enabled through a $200 VHF. Tx is probably a grand.

So I would highly recommend receive for all. Tx depends on use case and budget, and I'm certainly not going to show them the way.

I can know what I'm missing and do without. Many folks here are balancing need against want.

 

[boomerang]

I'll weigh in on our use. Years ago on our last boat, I installed a VHF radio that had an AIS receiver built in. I connected it to the plotter for a target overlay. While the novelty of seeing other AIS-equipped vessels was nice, it took only a few uses before I added a transceiver. To me, as a safety tool, it is just as important to be seen as to see others. The first thing I did before we brought our current boat back up the waterway was add an AIS xceiver.
Just last month, we were coming into Salt Ponds just north of Norfolk. We had just entered the jetties when ,over the radio, came "Wandering Star. This is the US Coast Guard. Come in"! Let me tell you, that'll make you sit up straight in your helm chair. I looked around and there were NO boats to be seen anywhere. When they asked us to go to 22A I figured it couldn't have been that bad. Come to find out, they wanted to know if we could see a rogue object that had been reported in the area and if could get an exact location and pictures so we happily obliged. They thanked us and said they had been monitoring us from their shore-based facility. My point being, AIS isn't just for my convenience. It's good to know that the CG has an eye on us if we need them.
For the record, I can turn off our transmission with the swipe of a virtual switch on my phone or i-pad but have never found the need to worry too much about pirates in our travels so it has always remained ON. On the other hand, the nearby vessel alarm has always remained OFF. I find it to be an annoyance and use AIS as another helpful safety tool but my main tools,when it comes to other vessels, are visual ones. My eyes & radar, in that order. The order is reversed in low visibility.

 

[Hippocampus]

Replaced transceivers on last two boats. Cost was ~$600 US. Figured the last time expense and hassle to reprogram made getting a new one worthwhile. The one before was slow and reliable to 8-10nm. Its replacement with its own antenna was much faster and reliable for 10+nm. I spend a lot more money for a single fuel stop.with a modest sized boat. If ~$600 is an obstacle then then sell your trawler and fund your IRA. Don’t buy into the expense objection unless you are only always in well known home waters out on pleasant days.

 

[Jeff F]

Replaced transceivers on last two boats. Cost was ~$600 US. Figured the last time expense and hassle to reprogram made getting a new one worthwhile. The one before was slow and reliable to 8-10nm. Its replacement with its own antenna was much faster and reliable for 10+nm. I spend a lot more money for a single fuel stop.with a modest sized boat. If ~$600 is an obstacle then then sell your trawler and fund your IRA. Don’t buy into the expense objection unless you are only always in well known home waters out on pleasant days.

$600 + antenna.

Some of us manage to own a trawler with limited means. I don't need advice to sell it because I don't choose to spend money on tx.

 

[psneeld]

Kinda a rich guy attitude right there........ some of us got into boating on a shoestring for many reasons not necessarily under our full control. There are a lot of us of out there, not realizing that assures me the lack of real boating experience or understanding by some.

Maybe we WERE funding IRAs and not putting things on our boat that we felt safe enough without for the last 60 years of boating.

Doesn't mean AIS isn't a good thing, just maybe hasn't floated up high enough in our minds yet for the type of boating we do. If I was gonna do Western Rivers or New England fog..... it would start climbing to the top quickly.

 

[Hippocampus]

https://www.nauticexpo.com/boat-manufacturer/class-b-ais-44814.html

There’s a lot of companies making AIS devices. A electronics geek friend told me there’s usually no reason to go with the same brand as the rest of your suite. It’s worth shopping.

I apologize for being snotty. I make many sacrifices to afford my boating as like many here but on something like this where it enhances my safety and that of others I draw the line. Look at this differently then other electronics which obsolete all to quickly. Expect my transceivers to be a one and done expense.

PS I agree not necessary for a lot of folks and delineated my view of the parameters in an earlier post. But continue to believe a worthwhile expense for many who have yet to take the dive.

 

[psneeld]

It doesn't come as a surprise to see that so many recognise that AIS contributes to safety.
I can also appreciate that are some (former midshipmen with James Cook, and others who, by virtue of their many years of sea time, can perfectly tune a radar in all conditions and intuitively calculate closest point of approach at a glance from changing bearings).
For these folk, the marginal increase in safety that AIS would bring will not warrant the expense or trouble. Maybe.

It seems to me though that perhaps we (because of course I too can see around corners and read vessel names) should spare a thought for people with less experience. For most, the availability of AIS will bring a significant increase in their ability to avoid collision and other unpleasantness. Perhaps we should not discourage them from adopting a simple and effective safety device by suggesting they just look out the window.

Based on the "experience brag" found on here...hard to believe some of the biggest proponents of AIS can't "perfectly tune a radar in all conditions and intuitively calculate closest point of approach at a glance from changing bearings. "

 

[ranger58sb]

Upon the recommendation of the sale and set up the AIS, no picture of the vessel if there is a chance of pirating or kidnapping.
I am told the best to display the AIS is on the RADAR instead of the chart display. Seems the RADAR is more accurate than the charts. Don’t have to wait X number of months for an update

Someone else may post a picture of your boat, on sites like MarineTraffic. Happened to us...

Your radar display will show radar returns at their own speed. Your radar display won't show AIS returns any faster. AIS returns will only update at the broadcast rate, no faster, no matter what display you use.

The symptom is that you can see a radar return and an AIS return exactly overlayed... for a minute... but then the AIS target will wander away from the radar target... until you receive the target's next AIS broadcast, when the AIS target will jump back onto the radar target. Repeat...

-Chris