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09-07-2018, 10:04 PM
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#1
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Guru
City: Huntersville NC
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 898
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Who has replaced a generator???
I want to hear stories. New? Used? Did you do the work? About how heavy is a 8-12 kw diesel generator? How much work is involved in the remove and replace processs?
Stories please! Any and all welcome.
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09-07-2018, 11:46 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,309
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8-12kw is more than can be lifted by humans. However it’s not to hard to build scaffolding and a chain hoist to get it up to the main deck. I usually use a forklift to get it on and off the boat. I have never needed to pull the boat out of the water to do the job but if the fork lift can’t get close to you, you will have to get close to it.
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09-07-2018, 11:52 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,309
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Once I had no floor to work with, had to open the windows and built the scaffolding on the outside deck with 12’ 2x4’s running through the boat. Hooked the chain hoist to a 1” pipe that sat on top of the 2x4’s. Then used pipe wrench’s to roll the pipe & load from one side to the other so the forklift could come in the back door and pick the generator off the chain hoist.
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09-08-2018, 06:23 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
City: Albany, NY
Vessel Name: Gypsy Star
Vessel Model: Gulf Star 43
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 451
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Lotta work.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=0046b03f85
The old Onan was truly dead so we were able to break it down into "manageable" pieces. The big surprise was that the smaller 7.6 kw Westerbeke needed a larger thru hull and strainer so the boat had to be hauled to install those which added to the bill. All the AC wiring and some of the exhaust line also had to be replaced. All this to get the guarantee.
It all cost about the same as the whole sailboat I cruised in for 25,000 miles but worth every penny.
__________________
Roger and Patsy
"Gypsy Star"
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09-08-2018, 06:26 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,966
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We replaced an 8kw Westerbeke with an 8kw Phasor compact. Weight about 400#. The yard used a forklift with an extra long fork to reach in through the side door. Chain fall to lift. The generator was located in front of the main engine with enough room to pull it without touching the main. The waste tank sits under the gen so I pulled the mounting bed to inspect. Everything was ok and reachable. My generator exhaust system needed to be reworked due to poor original installation. New hoses for water and fuel. Generator output cable, transfer switches, seastrainer, and start battery were reused. New gauge panel fit the old panel footprint.
Total cost was $12.5k.
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09-08-2018, 08:38 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Huntersville NC
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 898
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Thanks guys. I’m under contract with a boat that had bad oil sample from the generator. Im doing research to figure out how big of a job it is. I figured it was too heavy to lift. I believe it’s easy to get to though. Should be able to lift it straight out. It’s got over 5000 hrs on it. I was thinking i could save money by finding a used generator and having it installed.
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09-08-2018, 08:43 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
City: Kiln,MS
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T
Thanks guys. I’m under contract with a boat that had bad oil sample from the generator. Im doing research to figure out how big of a job it is. I figured it was too heavy to lift. I believe it’s easy to get to though. Should be able to lift it straight out. It’s got over 5000 hrs on it. I was thinking i could save money by finding a used generator and having it installed.
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Before you do anything. Go have a second sample done. Over the years I have seen several bad samples.
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09-08-2018, 08:47 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Huntersville NC
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CAT
Before you do anything. Go have a second sample done. Over the years I have seen several bad samples.
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That’s a good point. I know the generator was a little slow to start. Reminded me of a gas 6.5 with auto choke starting. But once it started it held a load well with no smoke and great oil pressure. I’m having a mechanic check for blow by.
Since it still has oil pressure, I figure the bearings can’t be too far gone, and if it doesn’t have blow by the rings are still sealing. But if it blows the dip stick out of the guy’s hand, well, no bueno.
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09-08-2018, 09:47 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
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If it is a 30+ year old genny with 5000 hours, expect Mr Murphy to show up at the most inconvenient time and the electrical part of the unit needs to be inspected also.
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
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09-08-2018, 09:48 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Huntersville NC
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan
If it is a 30+ year old genny with 5000 hours, expect Mr Murphy to show up at the most inconvenient time and the electrical part of the unit needs to be inspected also.
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It is and I’m sure he will. I was thinking of having the engine just rebuilt but I’m not sure its worth it.
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09-08-2018, 09:53 AM
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#11
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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Old unit is definitely worth some good mechanic attention. A bad oil sample is a red flag, but not necessarily a death sentence. If blowby is ok and it carries a load, that is a good sign. Exhaust might not be right, and that can be fixed. Get an oil change and a check-over straight away.
If it does die, don't go used. Go new. Lots of $$$, I know, but every gennie that came out of a boat came out for a reason, and rarely do you know the whole story. Once in your boat, you WILL know the rest of the story!
An old Westy 8kW is about 400-500lb. 12kW about 600(??). If you have a hatch above and a door behind, rigging out is usually no big deal.
I like the Phasors, if you have to go new.
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09-08-2018, 10:14 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
City: Lake Ontario
Vessel Model: Trawler Shopping 35-40'
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CAT
Before you do anything. Go have a second sample done. Over the years I have seen several bad samples.
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Absolutely. I can show you no shortage of bad oil reports (from our local Cat distributor, and for some reason, they all get sent to me) on engines from 300 hp to 1000 hp showing contamination with metals, water, and/or other chemicals that on retesting are magically gone.
Sample drawing technique is everything; it's easy to get contamination from outside sources, or accumulated junk in the tank or valve that is loosed by touching it, etc. that then shows up as high concentration in the fluid.
Before doing anything, change the oil and put some hours on it. Then take another sample, using proper collection technique. From there you can make a decision. It's not like you're going to hurt it if you're already of the mindset of tossing it for a replacement. Unless a bad rod knock is indicating imminent catastrophic failure, of course - something to discuss with a knowledgeable mechanic familiar with that power plant. But you may get lucky with a clean(ish) report.
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09-08-2018, 10:16 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Kiln,MS
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 457
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Also what was bad about the sample? Coolant, copper,iron, fuel, ext? As for the gen end. Check with a local rewind shop and see what it would cost to a clean bake and dip with pre and post insulation resistance tests.
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09-08-2018, 10:29 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
City: Kiln,MS
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandJeri
Absolutely. I can show you no shortage of bad oil reports (from our local Cat distributor, and for some reason, they all get sent to me) on engines from 300 hp to 1000 hp showing contamination with metals, water, and/or other chemicals that on retesting are magically gone.
Sample drawing technique is everything; it's easy to get contamination from outside sources, or accumulated junk in the tank or valve that is loosed by touching it, etc. that then shows up as high concentration in the fluid.
Before doing anything, change the oil and put some hours on it. Then take another sample, using proper collection technique. From there you can make a decision. It's not like you're going to hurt it if you're already of the mindset of tossing it for a replacement. Unless a bad rod knock is indicating imminent catastrophic failure, of course - something to discuss with a knowledgeable mechanic familiar with that power plant. But you may get lucky with a clean(ish) report.
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You're 100 % right about poor handling/ technique when it comes to samples. A lot of times it's due to dirty sample gun or not replacing the sample hose every time you pull a sample. I had one of mine come back high coolant that was false. As best I can figure is a rain drop got into it when I took the bottle off my sample gun to put the lid on.
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09-08-2018, 10:33 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
City: Kiln,MS
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 457
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Also for those reading this thread. Cat sells sample port fittings that screw directly into the oil galley. They are dry break so nothing but a rubber cap to remove for pulling the sample. Also they have a customer sample packet that has a sample hise/nipple for use with the fitting. They are disposable and only cost 2 or 3 bucks last I time looked.
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09-08-2018, 04:55 PM
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#16
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Guru
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,181
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An 8K westerbeke diesel is about 550 lb. I dropped mine in with the travel lift. it cost me a hundred bucks. It was a new installation in my boat with a used generator. I did do the work myself, it was not a big challenge once I figured out the 120 volt wiring
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09-08-2018, 05:41 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Huntersville NC
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motion30
An 8K westerbeke diesel is about 550 lb. I dropped mine in with the travel lift. it cost me a hundred bucks. It was a new installation in my boat with a used generator. I did do the work myself, it was not a big challenge once I figured out the 120 volt wiring
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Mind me asking about what that cost?
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09-08-2018, 07:17 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Cruising East Coast US
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,420
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How long is a piece of string? Ease to get it in/out depends on the boat. I put 3.5KW in one of my boats by myself. I took a 12KW out of my current boat in three hours with an hour and a half of yard time charged. It all depends. The generator can be halved in weight if you remove the winding from the engine itself.
__________________
Cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
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09-08-2018, 07:59 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Longboat Key, FL
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,196
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I did a genset rebuild and new hatch relocation in a four part series here on TF in the Krogen section, beginning with this one:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...ion-14177.html
__________________
Larry
"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
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09-09-2018, 06:41 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
City: Green Cove Springs,FL
Vessel Name: No Destination
Vessel Model: 1972 GulfStar Trawler 36
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 199
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You guys all lucky with access to gen. Mine is located on the back of twin engines. The only way to remove is to get one engine out. For now, is working fine, but if will "bit the dust", I will just get 2 external Hondas.
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