Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2018, 08:42 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Scratchnsaw's Avatar
 
City: SOBX North Carolina
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Here you go:

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

(9, 10 and 13 get to narrow channel, vessel separation schemes, and overtaking, respectively).
Yep,
__________________
Advertisement

Scratchnsaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 08:45 PM   #22
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchnsaw View Post
I understand that completely. But the laws of tonnage applies too. Running the Miss River is another case in point where the south bound current further restricts proper handling for commercial traffic in particular. So you cannot say without a doubt that that a weekend warrior out for a day cruise has the right or way. That's just plain wrong.

There is no "rule of tonnage", and you just perpetuating ignorance, bad navigation, and poor seamanship by repeating it.


I'm 100% with psneeld on this. Rather than everyone making up whatever rules seem right to them, just learn and follow to ones that you are supposed to know, and required to follow.
__________________

__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 08:50 PM   #23
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchnsaw View Post
Yep,
except...

Rule 3
The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.
menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 08:51 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Scratchnsaw's Avatar
 
City: SOBX North Carolina
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
There is no "rule of tonnage", and you just perpetuating ignorance, bad navigation, and poor seamanship by repeating it.


I'm 100% with psneeld on this. Rather than everyone making up whatever rules seem right to them, just learn and follow to ones that you are supposed to know, and required to follow.
My comment about the tonnage applies to restrictive navigation in a channel by large ships. I go back to the issues of ships, tugs and barges too that's headed downstream too. Anyway a dozen courts would probably rule a dozen different ways in this matter.
Scratchnsaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 08:54 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Scratchnsaw's Avatar
 
City: SOBX North Carolina
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
except...

Rule 3
The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.
Yep, that's obvious. But we were talking about sailing craft versus a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;.

My comments addressed this from my very first reply. Nighty nite folks.
Scratchnsaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:04 PM   #26
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Gary View Post
People use "right of way" very loosely as it only appears in the COLREGS for Western Rivers and then ONLY to differentiate between upstream and downstream bound vessels. The Correct term is "Stand On and Give Way for vessels overtaking, passing or meeting on different courses. Neither stand on or give way vessels escape the liability of keeping a vigilant watch nor the obligation to avoid a collision by all available means. I suspect that the sailboat will be assessed a portion of the blame in this case.


This took far more time than usual for someone to bring up.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:18 PM   #27
Guru
 
mahal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
of course we don't know whether the sail boat was also motoring, and that would completely reverse who is stand-on and give-way.
This is the big question. Not in any way suggesting that the following is the case here, but how easy is it for a sailboater to claim in court that his or her motor was off even though he or she was motorsailing?
mahal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:27 PM   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
Often quoted but incorrect. An example would be a sailing cat overtaking a power boat at displacement speeds.
Geez guys

In this case with a recreational powerboat, and a sailboat under sail, the sailboat has the right of way.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:32 PM   #29
Veteran Member
 
Captain Ralph's Avatar
 
City: Jax
Country: USA
Vessel Name: JoSea
Vessel Model: Bertram 58 MY
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Further down the rule book, A snailing craft shall not cross or enter a channel and obstruct vessels already navigating in the channel, shall not impede NUC, RAM, CBD nor anybody claiming the center of the channel by restrictions in her draft (Inland version of CBD).
Real fishing boats, with their own day shapes and nights lights, are real RAM and are taller in the scrotem pole than a snail bote.
__________________
“A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor”
Captain Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:33 PM   #30
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,990
I'm sure the sailboat was enforcing his right-of-way. I think somewhere in Europe.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Right_of_Way.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	80198  
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:33 PM   #31
Veteran Member
 
Captain Ralph's Avatar
 
City: Jax
Country: USA
Vessel Name: JoSea
Vessel Model: Bertram 58 MY
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Geez guys

In this case with a recreational powerboat, and a sailboat under sail, the sailboat has the right of way.

Snail Boter.
__________________
“A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor”
Captain Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:52 PM   #32
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
except...



Rule 3

The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.

Am I wrong in also thinking that the Rule is referring to a commercial vessel engaged in fishing, rather than a recreational fishing boat?
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:55 PM   #33
Veteran Member
 
Captain Ralph's Avatar
 
City: Jax
Country: USA
Vessel Name: JoSea
Vessel Model: Bertram 58 MY
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Am I wrong in also thinking that the Rule is referring to a commercial vessel engaged in fishing, rather than a recreational fishing boat?
A recreational fishing boat has NO rites of way.....
A commercial fishing boat showing a basket or proper lights is RAM.
__________________
“A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor”
Captain Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:55 PM   #34
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahal View Post
This is the big question. Not in any way suggesting that the following is the case here, but how easy is it for a sailboater to claim in court that his or her motor was off even though he or she was motorsailing?


Sure they could attempt to make that claim. Not sure how likely that is. In today’s environment where almost any event has video associated with it, it would be pretty easy to disprove.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 09:59 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
wwestman's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Excellent Adventure
Vessel Model: 1995 Jefferson Ker Shine 45
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 395
I have always adhered to the tonnage rule, if it is bigger than me it makes the rules.
wwestman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 10:02 PM   #36
Veteran Member
 
Captain Ralph's Avatar
 
City: Jax
Country: USA
Vessel Name: JoSea
Vessel Model: Bertram 58 MY
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahal View Post
This is the big question. Not in any way suggesting that the following is the case here, but how easy is it for a sailboater to claim in court that his or her motor was off even though he or she was motorsailing?

Good point. I was trying to arouse this in thread;
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post692563


A few may of tired of my point.

Overall; Snail Boters think they have so many rite of ways and it's just is not so.
__________________
“A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor”
Captain Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 10:05 PM   #37
Veteran Member
 
Captain Ralph's Avatar
 
City: Jax
Country: USA
Vessel Name: JoSea
Vessel Model: Bertram 58 MY
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwestman View Post
I have always adhered to the tonnage rule, if it is bigger than me it makes the rules.
Kinda of Gross tonnage wins???
It is a safer way of using the water ways. If you come home in one piece, it could be an un-wriiten good rule of life.
__________________
“A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor”
Captain Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 01:07 AM   #38
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Stuart FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahal View Post
This is the big question. Not in any way suggesting that the following is the case here, but how easy is it for a sailboater to claim in court that his or her motor was off even though he or she was motorsailing?
It actually goes deeper than that. If the motor was running it doesn’t necessarily mean it was in gear and propelling the boat. A fine point but accurate.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 01:50 AM   #39
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
v
Or just follow the rules like you are supposed to.....
The rules are quite simple:
Don't hit anyone or let yourself get hit

Much like driving a motorbike here in Vietnam
__________________
Richard on Dauntless,
New York

a Kadey Krogen 42 currently: https://share.garmin.com/dauntless
Blog:
https://dauntlessatsea.com
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 01:58 AM   #40
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
v
Or just follow the rules like you are supposed to.....
Correct answer
The rules state both vessels must do everything they can do to avoid collision.
Common sense really, there is no right of way, use your brain, do not crash.
__________________

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×