Where do you even start ( boat trasport)

[RonR]

So lets say I was looking to buy a larger boat some day. Say the boat was a 1988 Ocean 48' Convertible with twin 485hp 671's. Packs around 580 gallons of fuel. Lets assume all systems are good and rebuilt engines, also has a water maker Boat is located in San Diego CA. and I want it in Seattle WA.



I have never done anything outside of the Puget Sound so if it was to go on its own bottom figure a pro would do it and I would tag along for fun. But how do you even start planning for a trip like that? Or would it be better to ship by truck?

What do you figure for average speed going North in a way to make time but easy on the boat/crew/fuel bill/stops. Most of my local Puget Sound trips I figure my egg at 10mph and at 12 gallons per hour and keep 1/4 or more in the tank for reserve. Yes this is cutting it close, but most fuel stops are within a 1/4 tank of fuel from most places I travel. Yes the boat can do close to 30mph at 20 gallons per hour, but no one is having any fun going that fast for more than about 10 min.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/ocean-48-convertible-super-sport-3605124/

No this is not something I am planning to do now, but in a year or two with something in this size/condition/price point, and will prob be located in San Fran or San D for this style of boat. Just something I was thinking about.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. RR. Hire the right delivery captain and all will come together. They will have done this trip more than a few times and they are the best ones to quiz. My $.02.


Find the boat. Find the captain. Provisions fuel and whatever the captain advises. Set a date and have a great time.
Oh. Out of the harbor and turn right...

 

[RonR]

Greetings,
Mr. RR. Find the right delivery captain and all will come together. They will have done this trip more than a few times and they are the best ones to quiz. My $.02.

I would bet your right, but for the current place I am at (wishful thinking) I was trying to gain a little knowledge of how something like this comes together.
And whats an average rate someone like that charges?
Or what does that look like? Do they charge by the hour? Trip? I cant imagine they include fuel, coastal insurance, provisions.

 

[MYTraveler]

I would bet your right, but for the current place I am at (wishful thinking) I was trying to gain a little knowledge of how something like this comes together.
And whats an average rate someone like that charges?
Or what does that look like? Do they charge by the hour? Trip? I cant imagine they include fuel, coastal insurance, provisions.

You will need a captain and crew of 2 - 3. $500 per day is typical for captains, and about $150 each for crew. The captain will want to choose his own crew. Your insurance company will likely have to approve. You also pay for provisions and other incidentals, as well as one-way travel (either back to origin or from destination to origin). You also pay for lay days at 1/2 normal rate. A good captain will want to inspect your boat and make sure it is up to snuff. And he is on the clock while doing so. You may have to purchase some spares and get the life raft certified (or pay for a rental). The best way to do it is to hire your delivery captain and crew to run the boat for your for a few local trips before hiring for the delivery. That way you get a feel for him (her?), and he gets to know your boat.

If you are going to be on board, understand up front exactly what your role will be. Many captains would prefer that you not be on board, and may charge extra if they have to give you instruction along the way, etc.

 

[High Wire]

>>>Yes the boat can do close to 30mph at 20 gallons per hour...


How sure are you of those numbers? Thats pretty amazing.

 

[RonR]

>>>Yes the boat can do close to 30mph at 20 gallons per hour...


How sure are you of those numbers? Thats pretty amazing.

That's for my little 33' boat.
Twin Chev 350's twin fuel scans, I think its right.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Hmmm, 1,500 miles.
Buy the boat,
Join Tow Boat US,
Provision it,
Fire up those big diesels,
Cast Off!!

100 miles a day, be there in two weeks, or so

pete

 

[T210DRVR]

So lets say I was looking to buy a larger boat some day. Say the boat was a 1988 Ocean 48' Convertible with twin 485hp 671's. Packs around 580 gallons of fuel. Lets assume all systems are good and rebuilt engines, also has a water maker Boat is located in San Diego CA. and I want it in Seattle WA.



I have never done anything outside of the Puget Sound so if it was to go on its own bottom figure a pro would do it and I would tag along for fun. But how do you even start planning for a trip like that? Or would it be better to ship by truck?

What do you figure for average speed going North in a way to make time but easy on the boat/crew/fuel bill/stops. Most of my local Puget Sound trips I figure my egg at 10mph and at 12 gallons per hour and keep 1/4 or more in the tank for reserve. Yes this is cutting it close, but most fuel stops are within a 1/4 tank of fuel from most places I travel. Yes the boat can do close to 30mph at 20 gallons per hour, but no one is having any fun going that fast for more than about 10 min.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/ocean-48-convertible-super-sport-3605124/

No this is not something I am planning to do now, but in a year or two with something in this size/condition/price point, and will prob be located in San Fran or San D for this style of boat. Just something I was thinking about.

Are you mechanically inclined? Degree of experience with open ocean travel? If you meet these two you might consider the trip. A couple of local trips of 50 NM or so to shake out the mechanical bugs. Those engines will guzzle fuel at planing speed. Most larger yachts will pull the throttles back to a knot or so below hull speed for a long trip like that. Weather is key. Having “outs” in case of trouble is key. It’s like a plane, it’s inconvenient to pull over to the shoulder.

 

[High Wire]

On a friends 43 Egg SF with the same Detroit engines, 66 nm out at 18 knots, 8 hours at trolling speed and 66 nm back at 20 knots would be a 250 gallon trip. Genny running light the whole time. That was pretty consistent.

 

[RonR]

Are you mechanically inclined? Degree of experience with open ocean travel? If you meet these two you might consider the trip. A couple of local trips of 50 NM or so to shake out the mechanical bugs. Those engines will guzzle fuel at planing speed. Most larger yachts will pull the throttles back to a knot or so below hull speed for a long trip like that. Weather is key. Having “outs” in case of trouble is key. It’s like a plane, it’s inconvenient to pull over to the shoulder.

Mechanically inclined, yes
Experience with open ocean travel that I planned, no
I have done a few Seattle/Hawaii/Alaska/Cali runs in a tug back in the 90's so I know what to expect for conditions. But have no planning under my belt for that type of travel. I was just a apprentice mechanic for Foss Tug.
So I basically sat in the engine room and polished the floors and copper/brass.

It was just something I wanted to understand a bit better as I sit here waiting for varnish to dry while on lock down! Can you truck something like this figure 48x14 I think you can get it under height if you pull the props and pop the top off. Its not like the house has to come off I am guessing.


And looking at 100k boats and adding 15-25k to ship on its own bottom is a huge price jump. Probably worth waiting for the right local boat to pop up for sale in the area?


Keep the info coming if you are willing! I would like to know more. How much reserve do most keep in the tank for a trip like this? 15%? I would imagine you would take it out a few times to find actual fuel use at the planned speed. Then plan your first fuel stop and dip the tanks to make sure its all good. If a larger sport fisher runs like my little one you have two choices. 8 or 18mph as anything in the middle is just a waste of fuel.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

DON'T PUT IT ON A TRUCK!!

There is my advice.

I'm always amazed at people shopping for boats a thousand or more miles from their intended home port. I did it myself until I realized it would be nearly impossible to get a Florida boat to lake Michigan while I was still employed.

It's not just transporting the boat but you need to consider things like trips to make inspections, surveys, launching, provisioning, set up, practice runs, sea trials. Shop closer to home, save many thousands of dollars.

pete

 

[mvweebles]

So lets say I was looking to buy a larger boat some day. Say the boat was a 1988 Ocean 48' Convertible with twin 485hp 671's. Packs around 580 gallons of fuel. Lets assume all systems are good and rebuilt engines, also has a water maker Boat is located in San Diego CA. and I want it in Seattle WA.

When I was delivering in the late 1990s early 2000s, I was based out of San Francisco and did this run a bunch of times. As of 20-years ago, my rates were $400/day plus $100/day for crew plus all expenses, so MY Traveler's quotes for current are probably spot-on. I did not reduce rates for lay-days though - if the owner wants the boat moved in winter when there are higher chances of weather delays, so be it. But I have to say, I didn't have many lay days. If I were stalled due to weather, I'd leave the boat and head to another gig and come back, usually within a week or two. In general, my fees were roughly 50% of the overall costs to get the boat from Point A to Point B, the other half being logistics, fuel, and provisions. Delivery like this would take 7-10 days in summer, more in winter. Crew of two is all that is needed. If the owner wanted to be that crew, might take a wee bit longer, especially if their spouse served as the other crew, but I was fine with that - teachable moments. It was a little harder on me to have the owners aboard, as I had to be more sociable. But the food was better (FYI - my contracts always specified a dry boat - not a drop of alcohol aboard).

Would run this boat at about 9-kts which would mean about 10gph of fuel burn. Would run-up the engines to at least 65% load for 10-15 minutes every few hours. This is by far the fastest way to run a boat on the Pacific Coast where there can be long runs between fuel, especially in off-season when some fuel docks in fishing ports have reduced hours - closed from Saturday afternoon through Monday is not unusual along smaller ports in Oregon and Washington if the fishing fleet isn't in.

I'd have to think about precise logistics on where to put-on fuel. It's been a long time. Would shoot for no more than 400 nms between stops. After that, it's all about weather, which is all about season/month of transit.

Good luck!

Peter

 

[tiltrider1]

At 48’ you will spend more trucking up the coast than cruising up. Your insurance will require you to hire a captain. Last time I talked to Jack Defriel he was charging $350 a day plus expenses. He required two crew, if he provided them then $100 a day per crew plus expenses. Next you pick your time window. Usually May to September. Plan 2 weeks but hope for 5 days. Make a decision, time or fuel. I usually choose time but some boats need to choose fuel either for range or budget. Fill the boat up in San Diego, run your planned speed to Newport Bay. Fill the boat back up. Now you know your true fuel consumption. This dictates the rest of your fuel stops. Obviously weather dictates everything. If weather is good and the boat has the range then you run right around the clock only stopping for fuel.

Based on your boat specs and location, I would run at 20 knots from San Diego to Newport, refill, then run to Santa Barbara at 8 knots and refil. Now you have accurate consumption numbers for both speeds. This will plan the rest of the trip.

 

[GregBrannon]

Here's what I did:

• I had a friend, a retired Coastie and a recreational sailor with many hours afloat, including offshore and ICW journeys on his own boats and boats of others.
• I planned to buy a power boat someday. I didn't know where the boat would be when I bought it, but I expected it would be on the same coast.
• I TOLD this friend that he was going to be my delivery captain (he never objected but told me later that he doubted I'd ever buy a boat)
• I kept my friend involved in all phases of the boat search and purchase, including having him present for all post-offer, pre-purchase inspections, surveys, sea trials and post inspection repair decisions
• I allowed the friend to set the rest of the crew to his comfort and requirements, paying transportation for all to the boat
• Once the crew was set, I involved all in the preparations for the trip, detailed the condition of the boat and repairs that were made for the trip, purchased any spare parts they requested that I hadn't already thought of and food to keep everyone satisfied, etc.
• I had to convince my insurance company that the trip could be made safely with the chosen crew. They asked for details of everyone's experience and resumes. No one on the crew had a captain's license of any kind.
• After purchase, I began the process to transfer USCG documentation of the boat to me but recognized that I was going to have to begin the trip before the process was complete. The captain had to be aware of and comfortable with this. We were tailed once but never challenged.
• I traveled to the boat multiple times while it was being readied for the the trip. I offered the delivery captain to make these trips with me, but he was comfortable with my progress reports based on the boat's condition and work planned from his involvement in the survey/sea trial/etc.
• We all agreed on the delivery dates, arrived a few days early to become familiar with the boat, confident in its readiness to make the trip, and shop for the trip as needed.
• We left on ~1,000 mile trip, broke down (slave steering cylinder leak) at the end of the first day - a Saturday, repaired in 2 days, resumed Tuesday after lunch, and successfully arrived at delivery destination 7 days later, including 3 days offshore.

Other elements of the trip that made it interesting:

• On one of my post-purchase trips with my wife, my daughter and her family joined us at the boat for the renaming ceremony, including addition of the new name on the stern in vinyl.
• I completed an AIS install while we were broken down. It was a source of comfort while offshore and may have helped us avoid being boarded while the documentation transfer was still in process.
• The boat wouldn't start after the steering repair. I cussed, swore I was done with boats, practiced my failure speech to the crew, planned their flights home in my head, cursed the day I wanted to buy a boat, and cried a little. When that was over, I asked the marina staff for help and found a loose clamp on a battery terminal. The boat started easily and we continued on. (I offered, but the marina staff wouldn't accept payment for that last bit. Glad to get rid of us?)
• Going offshore at Fort Pierce at sunset the end of the first day after the steering repair was a magical moment. The entire crew took a moment to reflect on whether we were ready, whether the boat was ready, whether we should turn around. We agreed to keep going.
• After the offshore leg, my delivery captain friend and I completed the journey by ourselves . The other crew members needed to get on with their lives.
• I kept a log of the trip, shared a daily blog with loved ones watching us make the trip, and took lots of pictures.
• I was prepared to park the boat anywhere along the delivery route (not offshore, of course) to return later and complete the delivery.
• All agreed, including the delivery captain, that it was an adventure of a lifetime.
• My 22-year old son accompanied us on the trip and learned/observed many new and exciting things.

My delivery captain friend and boating mentor passed away in February, and I miss him very much. I'm thankful that he accepted the challenge to be my delivery captain.

Greg.

 

[Portage_Bay]

...............


How much reserve do most keep in the tank for a trip like this? 15%? I would imagine you would take it out a few times to find actual fuel use at the planned speed. Then plan your first fuel stop and dip the tanks to make sure its all good. If a larger sport fisher runs like my little one you have two choices. 8 or 18mph as anything in the middle is just a waste of fuel.

I try to plan my legs with 30% reserve, especially in winter when I can get caught outside the entrance or not be able to make my planned speed. You may not be able to meet that with the boat you're looking at.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. GB. Very nice. Thank you.

 

[FF]

"with twin 485hp 671's"

These engines are operating at about 2x the HP rating 6-71 were built for .

Engine life may be 1,000 hours instead of 10,000 to 30,000.

Going fast is fun but expensive.

 

[Lepke]

At full throttle about 30gl/hr. per engine. And the boat probably does better then 25 knots. At 20 knots, a lot less fuel. Run at full throttle about 1000+ hours between overhauls, at 80% 3000+ depending on maintenance. Could be as high as 10,000. It's the high exhaust gas temps that limit life.

 

[RonR]

Thank you for the tips, but this is just a how much does it cost, how long does it take, and how do you plan out a trip like this.


But with average cost between 10-20k added to the cost of a boat from down south at my price point. I would be better off overpaying for one located with in a few hundred miles of my home port.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

"with twin 485hp 671's"

These engines are operating at about 2x the HP rating 6-71 were built for .

Engine life may be 1,000 hours instead of 10,000 to 30,000.

Going fast is fun but expensive.

So true - we looked at a great 48' Gulfstar with those same turbo engines (Johnson&Towers)- owner said he did not know the hours on the engines, "meters have been broken for yrs". We sadly walked away.

 

[mvweebles]

Thank you for the tips, but this is just a how much does it cost, how long does it take, and how do you plan out a trip like this.

But with average cost between 10-20k added to the cost of a boat from down south at my price point. I would be better off overpaying for one located with in a few hundred miles of my home port.

As mentioned previously, professional delivery would probably be in the $12k range +/-. But....as someone else mentioned, there are material costs in the search and final transaction itself when you have to fly and/or get a hotel, etc. Unless the boat is pretty expensive and the search/delivery costs are a small percentage; or the boat has a unique attraction to you, it won't make financial sense even without the logistics of kissing too many frogs that look great in the Yachtworld ad.

Re: 485hp 671s. The over-HP'd Johnson & Towers DDs were famous for catapulting sport fisher's to offshore fishing grounds in record time. And retreating to a rebuild-shop in about 3500 engine hours. But look at it this way: would take a 671NA about 7000-10,000 hours to go the same distance. So maybe the trade-off isn't so bad.

Peter

 

[tiltrider1]

Between flying to LA 3 times, flying in my surveyor, hotels, rental cars, flying in my crew, crew costs, food, fuel, and In transit repairs, it came to $14,000. The fuel bill was only $4,800.

 

[Lepke]

10 years ago: My current 83' boat with twin 671 naturals cost about $55,000 to survey, haul out, fuel, food, prep (nav instruments, oil changes, spares, etc) for a 500+ mile trip. Crew was free and I was the captain. The boat then got 0.7 knm/gallon @ 10 knots. Now about 1.2 knm/gallon after rebuild and fine tuning. Fuel at that time was close to $4/gallon. We soon might be seeing $1 diesel. Good time to move a big boat or cruise. Commercial fuel docks are open.
Whatever happened to peak oil?

 

[Capn James Brett]

Ron, I will also private message you as I recently brought my Defever 53 up from Ensenada after her Mexican face lift.
Regards.

 

[mvweebles]

Ron, I will also private message you as I recently brought my Defever 53 up from Ensenada after her Mexican face lift.
Regards.

Assume you were in Baja Naval? How did things go? I tried to use them for a refit but ended up going elsewhere. Inquiring minds want to know....

Peter

 

[Capn James Brett]

Peter,
Yes, Baja Naval. They did great work and I would use them again in a heart beat. Roberto and Dieg, the owner, were great to deal with and the work quality was first rate.
Why did you go elsewhere? Just curious.

 

[OldDan1943]

Ron,
Get a sheet of paper or maybe 5 sheets of paper and list the intent of the boat, ocean crossing, coastal cruising.

Then, a list of things you think you will need and use on the boat. Some advice here. Put real close to #1 'lots of storage.' Especially if you are going to have your mate go with you.

Then a list of all the accessories you need and then a separate sheet for things you want.

How fast do you want to go.... this will influence the size of the fuel tanks and also the size of the fresh water tanks unless you intent to put in a water maker.

Electronics: Realize, what you install today may be out of date at the end of the first boat show or maybe even tomorrow.

Okay, now you have lists..... people seem to love lists.

Now, the search can begin.... Look at the major brokerages..... see the length of boat that will house everything on the lists..... (my recommendation is to stay away from wooden boats - personal preference)

As recommended else where, determine the smallest boat that will satisfy your needs.
Now, you are developing your price point.
IMO, never buy a project boat.... You want to go boating and not spend time rebuilding the boat.

At some point in your search you will beging comparing hull types, trawler, semi displacement, cruiser and maybe etc.
Now we get to my preferences. Diesel, low hours.... the condition of the ER will give you a hint on how well the engine has been maintained. You study and determine if you want one or 2 diesels.
Interior, 1 or 2 staterooms.... caution, if you make guest too comfortable, they will stay long or worse case, never leave.
Galley and serving area, ..... gas or electric..... galley up, galley down....
Now go back over the lists and begin adding and subtracting ....
Some folks maintain the can be comfortable on a C-Dora.... I gave up my camping days a long time ago. Start looking at 34 ft and go up to the mid 40s.

Oh yea, once again I opened the flood gates for comments. At least I can say, I gave you some hints. Now, go forth and search. You have 2 years to make a decision.
Visit boats, charter boats in the size and configuration your lists tell you. LOL
Never be afraid to strike things from the list or add things to the multiple list.
I am not about to sing the praises of my boat but, I would suggest you at least read about them and look at the lay out drawings and that goes for every other boat brand you are considering.
Hull construction.... cord (no), solid below the water line, very common, solid fiberglass hull up to deck level (ideal) Exterior wood and deck, based upon my own experience, no exterior wood to maintain and I mean NONE.
Teak decks, run away and hide.

Okay, this is the point where I will stop.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter,
Yes, Baja Naval. They did great work and I would use them again in a heart beat. Roberto and Dieg, the owner, were great to deal with and the work quality was first rate.
Why did you go elsewhere? Just curious.

I anticipated a major refit that made little financial sense but I would do it anyway. I had been in touch with Diego for about 8 months prior to actually arriving to begin the budgeting process. When I finally arrived, two things happened. First, after waiting for two months, I could not get quotes from them - even budgetary quotes (vs firm/fixed quotes) on more than half the work I was looking to compete. Second, the final quotes were 2x-3x the numbers we originally discussed and rivaled quotes I received at SF Bay area yards. Some increase made sense - hard to fully understand what a repaint will entail until you actually see the boat. But the explanations didn't always make sense to me. For example, almost $5000 to erect scaffolding to paint the boat. Or removing all the old gelcoat. Sure, there were a few small areas where the gelcoat had crazed and adhesion was compromised. But those were localized - I talked to two reputable paint manufacturers, including sending them pictures, and thy both said it would be highly unusual to remove all gelcoat except where there was extreme crazing and lifting of gelcoat. Another example was fabrication of a brand new fiberglass over foam hard top more than doubled (just the hard top, not the frame) . Nothing changed in the design, and since this was a brand new item, I couldn't fathom why this changed so much - a simple hardtop without electrics became a number that was impossible to reconcile based on cost of materials plus the purported $28/hr labor rate -, hard to imagine 300 man-hours to construct a 7x11 foam/fiberglas hard top. Their only explanation for the 250% increase from the original quote was to say sorry, the number is what the number is.

I was deeply disappointed with my experience with Baja Naval. It was hard not to feel the target of a bait and switch, that despite labor rates in the high $20's on their website, they actually figure out what a California yard would charge and just go with something close to that. The other possibility is they just didn't want the work. I've also been told that they scavenge workers to work at the other family commercial shipyard where their labor rates are much higher, so perhaps there is some cross pollination in the quoted rates. The yard was over half empty so hard to believe, but who knows. They didn't seem to shed a tear when I left. No bad blood or harsh words, just a business deal that didn't come together

That said, I had a fantastic experience with their marina personnel. I can't recommend their marina due to the constant surge and wakes from the tourist and fishing boats, but the staff were amazing.

Glad to hear your project went well. Baja Naval has a 35 year reputation for doing high quality work, but they have had up times and down times. I have been relatively happy working Niza Marine, a small group of workers who used to work at Baja Naval.