What Are Your Legal Rights Rendering Assistance to a Disabled Vessel?

[SoWhat]

Counter with a salvage claim.

"Pure salvage arises when there is no pre-existing agreement between the parties. The three elements of pure salvage consist of: 1) a marine peril placing the property at risk of loss, destruction or deterioration; 2) a voluntary service rendered and not required by an existing duty or by special contract; and 3) a successful salvage effort, in whole or in part."

Salvage is governed by maritime case law and you probably wouldn't
get a nickel but I bet their damages claim will disappear quickly as soon as your attorney sends a letter.

 

[psneeld]

Most good Samaritan tows would be valued very little .... definitely would depend on what damages are being cited.

 

[Delta Riverat]

This above!
30 years ago, I would have, and did on several occasions tow people in. People almost always offered to pay us, at least for fuel. I always declined, and just asked them to help someone else out in the future.

In today's litigious society, I would offer to take people off, if the boat was in danger of sinking.
Unfortunate, I know, but welcome to today's society.

I agree. I'll take your crew, they can swim over to my boat, but if you want a tow, call a tow company.

I'm not in the tow business and I don't know how to tow a boat.

 

[Andy G]

Could very well be that the individual doesn't even know they have a lawyer or that the letter was sent.

They may have just made an insurance claim and the folks from the evil empire (aka insurance industry) could have initiated the attorney as part of the claim.

Yep, that happened to us. I made an insurance claim on damage caused by my neighbour. As the damage was completely accidental I asked the insurance company, before i submitted the claim, if they would peruse my neighbour to recoup their loss.

We were told that in this circumstance they would not peruse my neighbour. On that basis i submitted my claim, and as you can guess after the claim was submitted, they went after my neighbour.

It took a very nice bottle of red around his kitchen table to convince him and his wife that I wasn't in his words 'a complete bastard'.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yes, it is the insurance companies business to pay out as little as possible. Never forget this.

They get premiums for income and pay out for damages. Only way to make money is to take in more and pay out less. Easy.

Not to mention they all have staff attorneys employed. Just ready to earn their dough.

 

[SteveK]

Only twice have we taken anyone on board our boat and then because we took them from the water. No way will I invite anyone on board and have them trip fall and sue me for the price of a new boat. They stay on their boat, they tie on our tow line, avoid the possible liability. That was back in the SAR days.
Now, I will stand by and if lifesaving is required OK, other than that we are not a towboat.

 

[grahamdouglass]

Damage while tying alongside

In BC waters there are circumstances where you tie alongside other vessels at public wharves. In this case both boats use fenders. If you tie up at a wharf and there is no boat alongside you may be warned by the wharfinger that boats may tie up beside you and they will have permission from the wharfinger to do so. In that case it is incumbent on the vessel to have fenders on the offshore side of his boat.

I think if an insurance company were to try to collect in a circumstance where you were required to offer a tie up at a public berth it would require gross negligence on the part of the captain in using fenders and lines. It might be an idea to take a picture of the tied up boat incase a claim is made.

 

[Bmarler]

[/B]

Yep, that happened to us. I made an insurance claim on damage caused by my neighbour. As the damage was completely accidental I asked the insurance company, before i submitted the claim, if they would peruse my neighbour to recoup their loss.

We were told that in this circumstance they would not peruse my neighbour. On that basis i submitted my claim, and as you can guess after the claim was submitted, they went after my neighbour.

It took a very nice bottle of red around his kitchen table to convince him and his wife that I wasn't in his words 'a complete bastard'.

Yeah, accidental or not, the neighbor should remedy the damage he caused. He should have stepped up before involving your insurance company.

 

[Iggy]

Some times people just suck!

I was coming from the Cape Cod Canal going to Boston. About 4 to 5 miles out by Plymouth. We saw a 10' boat waving a dive flag. The man was in a dive suit and I was think that there was a diver in the water. But it looked odd!

I stopped and asked questions. He's motor would not start. No phone, no VHF, no ores and no wallet. He wanted me to tow him 1/2 mile off shore. But no ores, so that was out. Plus not knowing the coast line so far in, I told him "are you going to pay for the damage if I hit a rock. Now I would be in trouble.

I was going to call Sea Tow, but he said NO. No CC to pay. I told him that I was calling the Harbor Master to tow him in. He got mad!! I tossed him a line and he wanted to hold on it by hand making headway. I stopped and told him to tie it off. He was bitching the whole time. My wife was great, she told him, "no phone, no VHF, your diving alone, no ores. Now you are our responsibility" I towed him towards Plymouth Harbor not taking me much out of my way.

It took the Harbor Master 30 minutes to take him off my hands. He even bitched that the they would tow him into the harbor. "how am I going to get my boat back 1 mile down the coast?" I told him, fix your engine!

This guy didn't even say thank you! he just complained because he did not get what he wanted!

BOTTOM LINE: Once I stopped, his my reasonability. If I tow him in a 1/2 mile out with no ores and something happens to him. That maybe on me. Even he said no Harbor Master, since the reasonability was on me, I called and handed him off to them.

 

[mvweebles]

Some times people just suck!

I was coming from the Cape Cod Canal going to Boston. About 4 to 5 miles out by Plymouth. We saw a 10' boat waving a dive flag. The man was in a dive suit and I was think that there was a diver in the water. But it looked odd!

I stopped and asked questions. He's motor would not start. No phone, no VHF, no ores and no wallet. He wanted me to tow him 1/2 mile off shore. But no ores, so that was out. Plus not knowing the coast line so far in, I told him "are you going to pay for the damage if I hit a rock. Now I would be in trouble.

I was going to call Sea Tow, but he said NO. No CC to pay. I told him that I was calling the Harbor Master to tow him in. He got mad!! I tossed him a line and he wanted to hold on it by hand making headway. I stopped and told him to tie it off. He was bitching the whole time. My wife was great, she told him, "no phone, no VHF, your diving alone, no ores. Now you are our responsibility" I towed him towards Plymouth Harbor not taking me much out of my way.

It took the Harbor Master 30 minutes to take him off my hands. He even bitched that the they would tow him into the harbor. "how am I going to get my boat back 1 mile down the coast?" I told him, fix your engine!

This guy didn't even say thank you! he just complained because he did not get what he wanted!

BOTTOM LINE: Once I stopped, his my reasonability. If I tow him in a 1/2 mile out with no ores and something happens to him. That maybe on me. Even he said no Harbor Master, since the reasonability was on me, I called and handed him off to them.

I've towed someone exactly once. Rather, I offered to tow someone once. Iggy's story is somewhat similar.

I was in the Delta (outside SF Bay) and came across a couple guys fishing out of a speedboat who flagged me down. Their motor wouldn't start. They were drunk and sun-baked. I offered to tow them to the nearest dock in my direction, about a half mile away. But noooo......they wanted a tow up-river a couple miles to where their launch/trailer was. For all I know they're still there, though they looked like they needed beer.

These threads come up from time to time. With exception of Psneeld, I am always amazed at how many people talk about towing many multiples of boats. Must be an east coast thing.

Personally, and maybe I'm naive, but I wouldn't worry about liability. If I can help, I will. Limits are more practical than legal.

Peter

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I have been on both ends of a tow line. I did not enjoy the experience either time.

I guess I would offer a tow again but the conditions would have to be 100% right. Weather, distance, danger, etc.

pete

 

[psneeld]

Some people would bitc* if they will the lottery...

I have had people complain about being rescued in some pretty dire situations where the or the rescue crew could have lost their lives.

If not worried about liability these days..... some will sue, not because of anything relevant, but because it might be easy money. That's like losing your wallet or having it stolen with $20 bucks cash in it...it's not the money it's the 25 things you have to replace in it that will take hours and days of waster time you will never get back.

 

[hollywood8118]

In Washington I have assisted boats in Peril a few times. Once off the South side of Cape Flattery on the trip down the coast. Three guys in a 19' runabout whose motor had quit and were bouncing off a vertical rock wall in fairly calm conditions (for Cape Flattery). Called the coasties and got them on the way, Checked the charts to look at depth and nudged in bow first and got a line from them. I was able to pull them out to deeper water and after being confident they were not at risk of sinking, started towing them as dead slow back towards Neah Bay. I was in contact with the USCG. and they assured me they where heading in my direction. Towed them for about 30 minutes and handed them off to the USCG.

Second time was I responded to a commercial fishing boat that was on fire in Port Townsend bay. We saw the smoke from about a mile away and pinned the throttle to the wall and did flank speed ( all relative on a 60000 lb + full displacement trawler ) We did have a small fire hose/deck wash down and a very large Co2 commercial extinguisher on boats that were totally useless with the exception of hosing the poor guy down who didn't abandon ship and whose clothes were smoking from the heat. By the time we got there that flames were coming out the doors and windows and the guy was handing off the stern. We pulled him aboard backed off and waited for a fire boat to arrive. We transferred the guy to the fire boat and left as a USCG RIB and the Helo arrived.
Would I , or did I worry about being sued for either act. Nope.

I would and have rendered aid many times because I couldn't imagine dealing with the thought of doing nothing if someone perished from my hesitance to act.
Would I act if I felt the odds would create a worse situation or cause harm to people aboard my boat if I did nothing, luckily I have not had to make that call.
I do look at these situations and would probably not act if it was just to keep the other party from "inconvenience" or would obviously cause damage to my boat.


I feel it is a responsibility to help others in peril on the water.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[psneeld]

And that's the rub.... deciding when to help when help is absolutely needed and not to when there are options.

As an assistance tower I have seen pretty much the spectrum of boaters that need all kinds of help.

If you are a lifetime boater and have helpd a couple dozen other boaters during that time without problems....you ARE LUCKY.

After hundreds and hundreds of assists both in the USCG and assistance towing... there are people out there that are dangerous standing still. The don't understand or will not follow your directions, they are incapable of properly cleating a line or tying a knot, resist or have problems putting on a life jacket. They will waste fire extinguishers because they don't understand how to use them, they can't even tell you accurately how much water is in their bilge, they can't steer straight when requested. The list goes on and on.....

These are the people NOT under that much duress, imagine trying to help people frozen with fright and what kind of quagmire you can get into trying to assist.

I am not saying don't assist, but the USCG learned a long time ago to develop rescue techniques without ANY aid from the people in distress. So my advice is make darn sure your plan to assist doesn't require any or much assistance from the other boat and stay ahead of each step in your plan as what comes up next.... it might not be what you expect.

A classic is.... the guy who you are trying to tow to a fuel dock, and he casts off way too early against the wind and current and winds up slamming into another boat. Guess who while is not really on the hook for that mess, but gets drawn into it none the less.

 

[rslifkin]

The list of ways and reasons it can go wrong is why I'm no fan of slingshot docking at the end of a tow, even with a pro on each boat handling it. Even more so with a powerboat where there's very limited rudder authority on the slingshot after the tow is dropped (it's definitely safer with a sailboat that can steer while barely moving). I'd much rather bring a boat alongside and then use my boat to place them carefully on the dock, as the maneuver is kept more controlled.

 

[psneeld]

With several knots of current perpendicular to the dock, try bringing a side tow in here with boats on either side and the motors tilted up sticking way past the outer posts.

 

[kthoennes]

Some years ago two teenagers on a couple jetskis on a very windy, choppy day, sucked up nylon fishing netting into their intakes and it stopped the jetskis dead. They were trying to dive underneath and pull it all out, but good luck with that. The jetskis were close to getting bashed on the rocks on the windward side of the Missouri, and they were also awfully close to the hydroelectric dam intakes. They wanted us to tow their jetskis back instead so they didn't get wrecked or sucked past the barrier buoys and against the power station's intake racks. Finally, both kids had tried to roll the jetskis over before we got there, tried to turtle them I mean, and took off the engine access panels to try to clear the netting tangles with no luck. That apparently swamped both jetskis so water was washing over the seats.

I thought to myself, okay, if we tether these jetskis to the stern cleats and they sink, then I either cut the lines with a knife, or drag and bounce them along the bottom like a couple giant anchors. On the other hand, even if they didn't sink, then they could get bounced against my hull in the rollers and the chop. (Of course jetskis probably have enough built-in flotation that they wouldn't sink even if the guts were swamped, but I didn't want to test that assumption.) The kids said they took the jetskis without their parents' permission (imagine that!) and didn't want to damage or leave them bouncing in the water.

It finally came down to telling the teenagers we'll rescue you, but I'm not going to retrieve, tether and tow two dead, swamped jetskis in a 3-5 foot chop. They had enough difficulty just swimming to the swim step and climbing the ladder in those conditions. Anyway, my natural instinct is to always render as much aid as I can, but that situation taught me sometimes it's people first and you can't always safely or reasonably save the boats or equipment.

 

[rslifkin]

With several knots of current perpendicular to the dock, try bringing a side tow in here with boats on either side and the motors tilted up sticking way past the outer posts.

I don't think I'd try that one. I'd be looking for a better safe spot to put them.

 

[phillippeterson]

Only twice have we taken anyone on board our boat and then because we took them from the water. No way will I invite anyone on board and have them trip fall and sue me for the price of a new boat. They stay on their boat, they tie on our tow line, avoid the possible liability. That was back in the SAR days.
Now, I will stand by and if lifesaving is required OK, other than that we are not a towboat.

This reminds me of another post a while back on this forum where someone wanted to sue because the marina didn't come running out with a step ladder for his wife who broke an ankle (or something) when she used poor judgement and tried disembarking when she shouldn't have.

 

[psneeld]

I don't think I'd try that one. I'd be looking for a better safe spot to put them.

But customer service is everything....

I probably tried 20 different ways at those slip, and finally settled on 3 or 4 ways for different conditions....none of which are covered in any towing books, classes, etc.

 

[Spinner]

Shortly after acquiring my current boat, I was about a mile or two from the marina I spent the night at when I was waved down by a man standing on the bow of his sailboat. There was no wind, and he had evidently run out of fuel. I side-tied the boat and slowly returned to the marina and pushed him sideways with my thrusters, right at the fuel dock.

It was a simple rescue, no danger to anyone. I’d do it again, but I don’t feel that I have the knowledge to tow a large boat in through bad weather…

 

[Hippocampus]

Question for the lawyers here. If you record a statement from the master of the other vessel that he/she releases you from any and all liability would it have merit in court?

As stated before I think you have a moral obligation to help and often a legal one as well. I think you can mitigate your exposure by contacting the CG and following their directions. I would use a cellphone to record all interactions.