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Old 04-04-2019, 07:02 AM   #21
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Whatís the difference between this boat and the earlier one you were restoring where you made the comment about the fuel usage? I think this one could consume as much?
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:17 AM   #22
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Wifey B: Toocoys, you just trying to confuse the h.. out of all of us? If you run it the same as you did the last boat, then fuel won't be a problem at all.

Do you like boating or just the thought of boating?

I saw you said "long story" and you'd explain later so getting my and ready when you are. In the office today and waiting for a lunch delivery so got time to read.

As to gas, far more gas boats than diesel. I didn't even know there were diesel boats until 2012.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:00 AM   #23
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Whatís the difference between this boat and the earlier one you were restoring where you made the comment about the fuel usage? I think this one could consume as much?
I sold that Chris Craft. We've been living on a 1996 Mainship 37 M/Y since August.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:03 AM   #24
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Wifey B: Toocoys, you just trying to confuse the h.. out of all of us? If you run it the same as you did the last boat, then fuel won't be a problem at all.

Do you like boating or just the thought of boating?

I saw you said "long story" and you'd explain later so getting my and ready when you are. In the office today and waiting for a lunch delivery so got time to read.

As to gas, far more gas boats than diesel. I didn't even know there were diesel boats until 2012.
The quick version is that I had allowed myself to become miserable, and am now getting sober. Now that its getting to be warmer weather, I'm getting sober, and going through therapy, living aboard is getting fun again. So we may not be moving back to land anytime soon, as I had posted in another thread.


And no I'm not trying to confuse y'all. I didn't realize that the Californian "trawler" was actually a planing hull, which kinda makes this entire conversation null and void. I was wondering about gas vs diesel in full displacement hulls.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:40 AM   #25
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And no I'm not trying to confuse y'all. I didn't realize that the Californian "trawler" was actually a planing hull, which kinda makes this entire conversation null and void. I was wondering about gas vs diesel in full displacement hulls.

Could be just a minor detail, with respect to that particular Californian.

Consider a full displacement hull -- gas, diesel, electric, flux capacitor, whatever -- is designed to travel within a specific range of speeds. Often slow, for short boats.

That Californian could easily travel slow (mostly), and resulting fuel burn could well be within your acceptable range. If you drive it like a trawler, not like your earlier Chris Craft, could be a world of difference, could be a decent answer.

But you gotta make sure the sanitation system works for all functions.



Just thoughts...

-Chris
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Old 04-05-2019, 08:41 AM   #26
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Looked at a couple of these on-line, and apparently they were called "38 Trawlers".

Here's a of a similar boat that I found on-line.

Maybe another consideration, but if the engines need replaced how does one do so? Cut a hole in aft deck? If so, add more $$ to the project.

Also, the aft ladder from the swim platform would be a deal breaker for me, as my wife and I aren't getting any younger and it would be a PITA for the dog!

I know that you were leasing you current boat. Is it a possibility to buy? Or maybe it is not large enough?

For me, the most bang for the buck is with the Carver 355/356's and this boat remains on our list.

You ask about gas vs. diesel in full displacement hulls. Are there many of these types of boats? Seems to me that the go slow speeds would favor a low hp naturally aspirated diesel? I have seen a few older sailboats with gas engines, but the norm for a sailboat inboard engine would be diesel.

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Old 04-05-2019, 08:48 AM   #27
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Looked at a couple of these on-line, and apparently they were called "38 Trawlers".

Probably could only tell by looking at 1983 builder's info -- from that older iteration of Wellcraft, in this case -- apparently after acquisition from the original folks. Descriptions applied by guys in the secondary market (like the Maritime Museum guys, in this case) may or may not completely mirror the original builder's literature.

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Old 04-05-2019, 10:16 AM   #28
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I have a little different take on gas vs diesel. These are older boats and most likely have deteriorating hoses, tanks, filters and or valves. Those deteriorated parts leak, with a diesel you have a pollution problem with gas you have an explosive problem. We have all seen videos of gas boats especially inboards explode. Diesel boats aren't fireproof but which incident is more survivable?
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:44 AM   #29
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Ka-sea-ta,

Yes we have all seen the pics.
But we’ve all seen lots of pics of nuclear explosions too.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:46 AM   #30
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The quick version is that I had allowed myself to become miserable, and am now getting sober. Now that its getting to be warmer weather, I'm getting sober, and going through therapy, living aboard is getting fun again. So we may not be moving back to land anytime soon, as I had posted in another thread.


And no I'm not trying to confuse y'all. I didn't realize that the Californian "trawler" was actually a planing hull, which kinda makes this entire conversation null and void. I was wondering about gas vs diesel in full displacement hulls.
Wifey B: But you never moved the last boat. Never used it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 05:45 AM   #31
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Almost EVERY photo of a gas boat exploding was a few feet from a dock after the boat refueled.

Means someone was not paying attention!
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:18 PM   #32
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My new boat has twin Crusader gassers. It's not a trawler by any stretch of the imagination but it IS probably biggest interior of any 35 foot hull I came across. It'll make the perfect liveaboard for me. TooCoys, go tour one in person. You may fall in love with it like I did. Here's the one Im under contract on. I would've preferred diesels but every boat is a compromise. I found a gem.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...nced%20listing
Nice boat.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:43 PM   #33
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There is a trawler that we like (long story, Iíll update yíall later) but it has two Crusader 350ís in it. Why they put gas engines in a trawler in the mid 80ís Iíll never understand but there it is.



Would the fuel efficiency of a trawler with gas engines at 8 knots be the same as planing hull at idle?



For reference this is the boat Iím teferring to:

https://www.popyachts.com/motor-yach...exas-r1-104295



Please leave all comments about the dreaded seller aside, I am well aware.
Nice boat. Nothing wrong with gassers if you're not going very far. I love the Californians. I owned a 42 LRC for 9 years with 3208As. Good solid boats. I'd look hard at that boat too.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:37 AM   #34
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Nice boat.
Yes, and those 8.1s are such a step up from the 454s.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #35
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Yes, and those 8.1s are such a step up from the 454s.
My last gas Motorhome had the 8.1 engine that GM for some stupid reason discontinued. That engine, stock, is a beast. I loved it. I could run off and leave my friends that had the 454s and V10s. It was also, for a big block, not bad on gas milege. If I was repowering a gas boat they would be my pick.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:55 PM   #36
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I agree with toocoys. I have moved to diesel, BayLiner 4087, after almost 50 yrs with gas. If I had to do it again I would take gas without question. If you run the 350s below 3000 with secondaries closed you will find fuel burn quite acceptable. In fact it may be less than a new high RPM diesel. Secondly, the cost of two new state of the art crusaders installed will be less than 1/3 of installing diesels in a gas powered boat. My last gas boat was a 1988 CC 381 and my burn rate ranged around 40 ltrs per. If the vessel passes the survey, make an offer. You will be happy.
While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW.

If one isn't going far where fuel isn't the big issue, at the purchase price well below a comparable diesel model, it makes a lot of sense. If one is doing to Loop, nope.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:32 PM   #37
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Seevee wrote;
"While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW."
Diesels are more efficient as the loading decreases.
A gas engine is terrible fuel burn wise at low speeds/loads.
But they are near the same at full load/rpm.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:09 PM   #38
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While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW..

I think this is an apples to oranges comparison on gas to diesel. If a boat is going to have 1/3 the burn with the diesel engine it likely is a full displacement hull while the boat with the gassers is not.


With a lot of the boats that I have looked at, high hp gas engines drink about 50% more fuel that the high hp diesels engines, in the SAME boat.


Jim
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:43 AM   #39
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The question is always speed.

In a displacement boat 3 hp per ton is plenty .2240 lbs to the Ton.

An old gas engine should burn a gallon to produce 10 hp, a new gas that same gallon gets 14 or 15 hp , but requires electronics and complications to do it.

Older diesels will usually give 15 hp per gallon at cruise , new is better (20-22) on fuel burn but are also stuck with complex systems.

To be realistic as to how useful the boat will be, the numbers should come close ,, for cheap to keep, price out a bunch of parts to add to the comparison.

The Loop is mostly a displacement speed trip (with some exceptions) so high speed and high fuel burn would not be very useful.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:56 AM   #40
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I'll throw my $0.02 in on gas vs diesel. Far too many variables that have to be evaluated on a boat by boat basis so I'll just keep it general.

Fire / explosion risk. If gas were as dangerous as many think then all the beer lubricated go fast boats out on a sunny weekend would be going off like pop corn. Yes the fuels present different risks but follow the safety rules and you'll be fine.

Maintenance & replacement. Gas is cheaper to maintain. MUCH cheaper. But you have to do it more often. Replacement of a gas engine should it be necessary is cheaper MUCH cheaper. But they don't live as long. Be honest, how many hrs a year will you use the boat? How many years till the engines wear out?

Reliability at sea. Old skool naturally aspirated all mechanical diesels when maintained properly almost never quit. Modern common rail electronically controlled diesels are not that same beast. In either gas or modern diesel get the electrics / electronics wet and you're dead in the water. I could tell you a horror story of new John Deere common rail electronicaly controlled engines another time.

Noise. There is no comparision. Gas is so much quieter.

Fuel availability. That all depends upon where you operate.

Fuel life. Gas deteriorates much more quickly than diesel. Espeically gas with ethanol. Evaluate how often you will run the boat and how far. Don't let the gas get old.

Overall costs to own operate. Don't focus on just the fuel burn rate. That behavior is what I call "Finding the right answer to the wrong question."

I started another thread about engines. Quite a few offered the very sound advice. "Buy the boat that suits you, run the engines it comes with."
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