Which watermaker and why

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Joined
Jul 27, 2020
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3,908
Location
Plymouth
Vessel Name
Hippocampus
Vessel Make
Nordic Tug 42
Getting close to putting a another offer on a new to me boat. It doesn’t have a watermaker. Last boat did and that was a game changer in terms of quality of life.
Last one was a spectra Cape Horn extreme. DC so just our wind generators and solar were adequate with no net battery draw. And no electronics so it was bulletproof reliable.
Now on a FD trawler don’t know which way to go. AC v DC? If AC which brand and model.
Please help with this decision.
 
Getting close to putting a another offer on a new to me boat. It doesn’t have a watermaker. Last boat did and that was a game changer in terms of quality of life.
Last one was a spectra Cape Horn extreme. DC so just our wind generators and solar were adequate with no net battery draw. And no electronics so it was bulletproof reliable.
Now on a FD trawler don’t know which way to go. AC v DC? If AC which brand and model.
Please help with this decision.


If the boat will need to use genset often go AC, helps to load the genny. If not go DC and add solar to extend non genny time. The high output units are pretty much AC. There is no such thing on a boat as too much fresh water.. unless your on a lake and its sinking.
HOLLYWOOD
 
Talk to Gary at CruiseRO out of San Diego. He's a cruiser and was in La Paz last I heard. He's legendary for fast response.

https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/water-maker-overview/

These are AC watermakers and not particularly efficient. But they are scalable and use off-the-shelf parts. On a different Forum, I read of a couple somewhere deep in the Caribbean (Grenada I think) looking for replacement parts for Spectra and ended up being stranded for an extra couple weeks while a part got shipped from Miami at considerable cost. Granted, single-threaded customer support through Gary, but he's 24/7 and very knowledgeable. Cost effective, and old-school manual operation (they do have self-backflush mechanism). Watermakers have come a long way, but when they do fail, seems to be related to motherboards. Since those are 100% convenience related, manual is my choice for long range/term reliability.

Peter
 
Talk to Gary at CruiseRO out of San Diego. He's a cruiser and was in La Paz last I heard. He's legendary for fast response.

https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/water-maker-overview/

These are AC watermakers and not particularly efficient. But they are scalable and use off-the-shelf parts. On a different Forum, I read of a couple somewhere deep in the Caribbean (Grenada I think) looking for replacement parts for Spectra and ended up being stranded for an extra couple weeks while a part got shipped from Miami at considerable cost. Granted, single-threaded customer support through Gary, but he's 24/7 and very knowledgeable. Cost effective, and old-school manual operation (they do have self-backflush mechanism). Watermakers have come a long way, but when they do fail, seems to be related to motherboards. Since those are 100% convenience related, manual is my choice for long range/term reliability.

Peter


Hey Hippo,

I agree with Peter. I have a Cruise RO 40gph unit. Love it and highly recommended.:thumb::thumb:
 
We made about 2,500 gals of water over the last 4 months. I went AC for many of the reasons Hollywood posted.

MVW, why are saying AC WM’s are not as efficient as DC? I suppose there are a lot of variables involved and how we use our boats and their setup, but if you are off grid and need to run the Gen every day to charge the batteries and for other stuff like heating up the hot water tank, an oven to cook, etc., I think AC WM’s are actually more efficient than DC as far as the production rate is concerned.
 
Thanks guys. There’s actually a Spectra dealer in Granada and another in St Lucia. We use Jon in Rodney Bay to get filters so suspect it wasn’t a Spectra. Actually have had the most troubles getting RM stuff when in the Caribbean and B&G service is worst from what I hear. Yanmar is preferred over Volvo for that reason as well.

The reason we did the DC Spectra is because it recovers the energy of both strokes of the Clarke pump. So it’s more efficient.

Do you make water while underway? Does that allow no genset when using a AC set up? Don’t even like to hear the cooling water splashing when hanging out at anchor.
 
For an AC watermaker, you could use it underway with a big enough inverter and big enough alternator(s). Otherwise, it mostly makes sense if you already have a periodic need to run a generator. Such as for running a washer/dryer or using high power electric galley appliances. In those situations, it makes sense to (generator size permitting) just batch all of the big loads together for a single generator run. Such as a 90 minute run to make water, make dinner, and do laundry, then back to quiet.

If you expect to run a watermaker from solar and battery power mostly, then you want a more efficient DC unit, rather than a high output AC unit.
 
Thanks guys. There’s actually a Spectra dealer in Granada and another in St Lucia. We use Jon in Rodney Bay to get filters so suspect it wasn’t a Spectra. Actually have had the most troubles getting RM stuff when in the Caribbean and B&G service is worst from what I hear. Yanmar is preferred over Volvo for that reason as well.

The reason we did the DC Spectra is because it recovers the energy of both strokes of the Clarke pump. So it’s more efficient.

Do you make water while underway? Does that allow no genset when using a AC set up? Don’t even like to hear the cooling water splashing when hanging out at anchor.

Here is the thread. They were in St Martin. Who knows what the full story is, but in my mind, there's no doubt that if you plan on cruising, proprietary components is more of a liability than off-shelf components.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/spectra-a-cautionary-tale-220915.html

Peter
 
We made about 2,500 gals of water over the last 4 months. I went AC for many of the reasons Hollywood posted.

MVW, why are saying AC WM’s are not as efficient as DC?

Spectra Cape Horn Extreme (Manual operation). 19A @ 12VDC (plus boost pump) produces 15 gph, so 16w/gal

CruiseRO 43gph runs at 13.5A @ 120VAC (plus boost) so 37w/gal.

So the Spectra is twice as efficient, though the CruiseRO makes 3x the water, so you can run it for 1/3rd the time. Plus, the Spectra is $8k, the CruiseRO is around $4500. Given most powerboats have plenty of power to run this underway, it's a no-brainer to me. I'd go with the 120VAC with off-shelf components.

Peter
 
Another vote for Cruise RO. Rich was responsive with answers to my questions, Installation was as easy as any other RO watermaker. I can run it off the inverter when underway but it doesn't allow much overhead for other AC demands, so normally the genset is running when making water, I prefer to run the watermaker when underway because the water normally has less algae then the shallower water in anchorages, but that may be a west coast thing.... There are options for auto flush and with new TDS meter in the panel I imagine auto fill may even be available but you still have to manually adjust the pressure so another valve turn is no big deal...
 
IMO, there are 2 options, Spectra and Village Marine. Why? Because they are well known and have lots of parts and technical help if needed.
Now, next option. AC of DC. I opted for DC so I didn't have to run the generator. I doubt if my inverter would provide enough for an AC water maker. Plus, if necessary, you can get DC power from the main engine via the batteries.
I can heat water off the ME, make water and charge the batteries too. Cooking.... I guess I could cook on the grill if necessary.
 
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Another vote for Cruise RO. Rich was responsive with answers to my questions, Installation was as easy as any other RO watermaker. I can run it off the inverter when underway but it doesn't allow much overhead for other AC demands, so normally the genset is running when making water, I prefer to run the watermaker when underway because the water normally has less algae then the shallower water in anchorages, but that may be a west coast thing.... There are options for auto flush and with new TDS meter in the panel I imagine auto fill may even be available but you still have to manually adjust the pressure so another valve turn is no big deal...

Thanks for correcting me - I had said Gary. It was Rich. I found him about a year ago and sent an email inquiry. He called me back within an hour and answered a bunch of questions. I haven't purchased yet, but no doubt in my mind that I'll go with his unit. On CruisersForum he also has a legendary reputation. There is no magic about his watermakers, and there are competing DIY-style units, but he seems to have compiled a rock-solid system.

Recently, a friend with a $1.5m trawler cat had the motherboard on his watermaker blow. The control board had changed which required the remote display panel be replaced too. By the time it was done, it was a $8k repair. If you read the thread I referenced on a Spectra owner, they ended up with a few grand in repair plus a several week delay.

Peter
 
IMO, there are 2 options, Spectra and Village Marine.

I'd say the two choices are proprietary or off-the-shelf. Or maybe AC vs DC.

Looks like the biggest capacity you can get in 12VDC is around 15gph. There's something to be said to making 40+ gph even if it is less efficient. I would think most engine/alternator/Inverters on boats in this forum are capable of producing 15A 120VAC (1800W). Or let me put it this way - if your cruising plans require a watermaker, your electrical system should be setup to handle this type of draw regardless of whether or not you have a WM.

Just depends on priorities.

Peter
 
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For an AC watermaker, you could use it underway with a big enough inverter and big enough alternator(s). Otherwise, it mostly makes sense if you already have a periodic need to run a generator. Such as for running a washer/dryer or using high power electric galley appliances. In those situations, it makes sense to (generator size permitting) just batch all of the big loads together for a single generator run. Such as a 90 minute run to make water, make dinner, and do laundry, then back to quiet.

If you expect to run a watermaker from solar and battery power mostly, then you want a more efficient DC unit, rather than a high output AC unit.

Have you ever had a water maker on a boat? Just curious, because you seem to have a technical opinion on just about every subject that comes up. I check in every day, but read more than I post to learn from others.
 
Have you ever had a water maker on a boat? Just curious, because you seem to have a technical opinion on just about every subject that comes up. I check in every day, but read more than I post to learn from others.

I've tried to design in the ability to add one to my setup as I've made electrical changes, which led to lots of research on power draw for various units, etc. I haven't actually had the need and budget to install one though.
 
We made about 2,500 gals of water over the last 4 months. I went AC for many of the reasons Hollywood posted.

MVW, why are saying AC WM’s are not as efficient as DC? I suppose there are a lot of variables involved and how we use our boats and their setup, but if you are off grid and need to run the Gen every day to charge the batteries and for other stuff like heating up the hot water tank, an oven to cook, etc., I think AC WM’s are actually more efficient than DC as far as the production rate is concerned.

Fletch - Here's where I think you're spot-on with this - if you factor-in generator run-time, the equation changes. Pays to produce more water faster even if the WM is less efficient.

Instead of daily, I'd prefer to run a watermaker every 3-4 days for around an hour to make 50 gallons which the 43 gph WM supports. The larger Spectra (15 gph) would take over 3-hours; and my current 7gph/120VAC would take around 7-hours.

Just depends on how you want to use it. I am in the process of upgrading my battery and adding 800W of solar, so maybe running my little WM for hours on end is fine. But I'd really rather have the larger system. Plus, with my larger solar panels, running the generator every few days is about right.

Peter
 
Good discussion. Our lifestyle is to hangout on the boat fairly often. Do stainless or other small chores. Or just read, web surf and enjoy the sun. Over the last 7 years have gotten into a routine that on hangout days make water. So a 7 hour run isn’t a biggie. Now due to Covid will spend more time near coastal. On the east coast. Finding good spots without sediment or hydrocarbons in the water is harder. So ability to make a lot of water in a short time gains somewhat in importance. Filter changes do cost money over time. Especially the carbon one.
What filter set up are you using? How many gallons do you get out of your filters?
 
Good discussion. Our lifestyle is to hangout on the boat fairly often. Do stainless or other small chores. Or just read, web surf and enjoy the sun. Over the last 7 years have gotten into a routine that on hangout days make water. So a 7 hour run isn’t a biggie. Now due to Covid will spend more time near coastal. On the east coast. Finding good spots without sediment or hydrocarbons in the water is harder. So ability to make a lot of water in a short time gains somewhat in importance. Filter changes do cost money over time. Especially the carbon one.
What filter set up are you using? How many gallons do you get out of your filters?


For the activated carbon filter used to remove chlorine when flushing the system lasts about 6 months and is 10 dollars.
I have 3 pleated water filters in my system a 50,20 and 10 micron they can be washed dried and reused they each run about 10 to 12 dollars.... Filter cost with the CRO is not a big deal.
 
Hippa, TF members KSanders, Lepke, and other people on this site built their own WMs and know them well. They have some good threads on here you my want to check out. They were very helpful when I was doing my research last year. I went with a fully automatic system. Push a button, and off it goes. It’s a BlueWater, XT. It is used by a lot of cruisers and has been working well. The primary and fresh water flush filters need to be changed every 6 months. They are not very expensive. The Other filters will last years. We made a ton water this Summer and I am still a WM newbie, but so far I have been very happy with the system.

Peter, that is what I what was trying to convey. Again, we all use our boats differently so there are no right or wrong answers, whatever works for the mission.
 
We’ve been buying filters. Once you get sufficient marine growth on the filters you get a sulfur smell in the water. Although the ppm reading is great the taste and smell of the water isn’t. So we we change that filter much more frequently than noted above. Find washing them doesn’t get rid of the sulfur smell. Wife’s quite sensitive to it so change that filter every two month or so. Sometimes even more often. Whenever the smell comes back.
We had two water tanks 100g each. Would only put shore water in one. The other only saw RO water. Do our back flushing only with the RO water tank. So do get 4-6 months out of the carbon. Put in both a wire cage strainer and 10u prefilter on the supply line. Was able to get a box of them for real cheap. You can’t find 100 RV antifreeze anyplace in the Caribbean. With the Z ion they say you don’t need to pickle for a month. But personally trust it for 2 weeks so we do pickle for thanksgiving, Xmas, and school spring break when we fly home for family stuff. Then use the SC-1 chemical which you can find in both the windwards and leewards but it’s expensive. I had it taken from me at customs in the airport. Although it clearly says on the packaging it’s not a dangerous chemical customs thought otherwise so took it. When we start up again will always carry 6 pouches of the stuff.
Think marine growth rate and it’s nature varies place to place. Whatever is stinking up the filters and supply line down south isn’t up north so do get the service intervals much like what’s posted here. Except down Maine there’s more sediment and if you’re frequently making water no way you get more than a month or so before feed pressure starts to fall.
 
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We’ve been buying filters. Once you get sufficient marine growth on the filters you get a sulfur smell in the water. Although the ppm reading is great the taste and smell of the water isn’t. So we we change that filter much more frequently than noted above. Find washing them doesn’t get rid of the sulfur smell. Wife’s quite sensitive to it so change that filter every two month or so. Sometimes even more often. Whenever the smell comes back.
We had two water tanks 100g each. Would only put shore water in one. The other only saw RO water. Do our back flushing only with the RO water tank. So do get 4-6 months out of the carbon. Put in both a wire cage strainer and 10u prefilter on the supply line. Was able to get a box of them for real cheap. You can’t find 100 RV antifreeze anyplace in the Caribbean. With the Z ion they say you don’t need to pickle for a month. But personally trust it for 2 weeks so we do pickle for thanksgiving, Xmas, and school spring break when we fly home for family stuff. Then use the SC-1 chemical which you can find in both the windwards and leewards but it’s expensive. I had it taken from me at customs in the airport. Although it clearly says on the packaging it’s not a dangerous chemical customs thought otherwise so took it. When we start up again will always carry 6 pouches of the stuff.
Think marine growth rate and it’s nature varies place to place. Whatever is stinking up the filters and supply line down south isn’t up north so do get the service intervals much like what’s posted here. Except down Maine there’s more sediment and if you’re frequently making water no way you get more than a month or so before feed pressure starts to fall.

1. if you pickle your system insert new filters after you complete the process. I pickle my system every 3 months when I am not using it. I use Sodium Metabisulfite Pickling Agent.

2. I change filters after each time I make water. I make water, replace the filers with clean filters. I then take the dirty filters and rinse them with sea water and let them dry. Next time I make water, I replace the filters with the ones I cleaned during the last time I made water. This way I only use 4 filters all summer long. (Thanks Crusty for the tip)

3. While you are making water, make sure you back flush the system every 5-7 days or you will get the sulfur smell. Pickle the system if you are not going to back flush every 5 days.
 
I installed Cruise RO Watermaker this summer. It is a game changer especially for the women. I went with Cruise because he had the best response, customer service, and ease of replacement parts.

Bud
 
I have had both DC and AC powered watermakers, and used both of them extensively for years each. In fact I have not taken on dock water for probably 5 years now of “stay aboard” status. Not full time, but not a weekend warrior either.

The DC model was a Katadyne unit. It was very reliable and produced about 7 gallons per hour.

The AC model was put together using off the shelf parts. It was engineered and marketed by Cruise RO. It produces 40 gallons per hour.

Lets get the DC vs AC issue out of the way up front. I see ZERO advantage to a DC watermaker for any boat that has a decent reliable generator. No ambuguity here, Zero advantage of DC.

Why??? Thats simple. DC watermakers are low output. That means you are going to have to run that watermaker more than you probably want to hear it. Yes you can hear the watermaker running. My Katadyne DC unit was louder than my generator. It was a single piston design and you could hear it “thump, thump, thump” when running. Yes AC watermakers are also noisy. My AC watermaker is about the same level as noise as my Northern Lights Generator. The differencer is that I can make in an hour what it takes all day from the DC unit.

I can also run my watermaker from my inverter and actually do that when underway quite a bit.

The question then becomes modular or stand alone. Stand alone systems are GREAT. Hook up the inputs and outputs and you have water. How cool is that! The devil is in the details though. Stand alone units have all the controls on the front of them. Do you have a place to put it where you are comfortable getting to the front every time you turn it on or off? Do you want to crawl into some deep dark place every time?

Yes you can get a standalone model with a remote panel. That is fantastic, but it comes with a price. If you go with a standalone model and a remote panel just make sure the model you get has a high pressure adjustment capability either automatic or from the remote. This is critical and is more expensive than one might imagine.

The other choice is a modular unit. With these you get separate components that you plumb and wire together to make a watermaker. This allows you to have your panel anywhere you can get hosers and electrical to. This also allows you to be creative with your component placement.

The challenge to a modular system is you are going to have to be more technically inclined than with a standalone system. The work is not all that difficult, but it is work involving plumbing, and wiring, some of it high pressure plumbing.

I opted for a modular system. I am technical by nature and found that it was pretty enjoyable to install, and learn how watermakers work. I installed my panel in the salon because I use it every day and I didn’t want the trouble of moving stuff out of the way to get to the lazarette, or to get down into the engine room just to make some water.

I opted for a 40 gallon per hour unit because I knew from my Katadyne watermaker experience that my usage is about 40 to 50 gallons per day. Yes we like to take showers every day. Yes we like to do dishes and not have to be concerned with turning off the water while we brush our teeth. We also fish and like keeping the cockpit clean using nice fresh water.
We also like clean clothes, so the onboard washing machine gets used frequently.

I also opted for a unit that has zero proprietary parts. Why? that is simple. I do not want to be dependent on my watermaker manufacturer for the rest of the units life. I want to be able to shop for replacement parts where I want to shop for them, and not be locked in to any one brand.

Who did I buy my system from? Rich over at Cruise RO that’s who. Great small business run by a cruiser who uses his products and cares about his customers.
 
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I too had a 40 gph Cruise RO--worked well, support from Rich, as stated, is great--almost any time of any day.
Parts can be purchased at almost any plumbing or hardware store.
We usually ran it while underway with the idea being we would start with "better water" than in an anchorage.
 
ASD we’ve been doing what you said but still got the sulfur smell. So started not changing filters every time we’d make water but rather just tossing them when they smelled bad.
Spectra requires you use their chemicals which is a strike against them. No issue when in the US as then just use 100RV antifreeze but a hassle outside the US. 100 strength is cheap and good for up to 12 months.
My watermaker was in my workroom. You couldn’t hear it. Would monitor by looking at waste water and periodically going into the workroom to look at output and pressure gauges.
Big fan of modular. Although all the modules were just a foot or two apart still it ends up using less useable space and easier to see what’s going on.
Still on the fence about AC v DC. Nice to hear good things about Cruise. Used Bryan at Headsync in Newport RI for prior Spectra. He was great as well. Shipped me stuff on a phone call from the satphone while on passage . Was waiting for me at landfall.

Does anyone carry a spare membrane? Often systems are rated for tropics or for everywhere. The extrem is everywhere. Any one have a tropics system? Does it really make a difference?
 
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I have had both DC and AC powered watermakers, and used both of them extensively for years each. In fact I have not taken on dock water for probably 5 years now of “stay aboard” status. Not full time, but not a weekend warrior either.

The DC model was a Katadyne unit. It was very reliable and produced about 7 gallons per hour.

The AC model was put together using off the shelf parts. It was engineered and marketed by Cruise RO. It produces 40 gallons per hour.

Lets get the DC vs AC issue out of the way up front. I see ZERO advantage to a DC watermaker for any boat that has a decent reliable generator. No ambuguity here, Zero advantage of DC.

Why??? Thats simple. DC watermakers are low output. That means you are going to have to run that watermaker more than you probably want to hear it. Yes you can hear the watermaker running. My Katadyne DC unit was louder than my generator. It was a single piston design and you could hear it “thump, thump, thump” when running. Yes AC watermakers are also noisy. My AC watermaker is about the same level as noise as my Northern Lights Generator. The differencer is that I can make in an hour what it takes all day from the DC unit.

I can also run my watermaker from my inverter and actually do that when underway quite a bit.

The question then becomes modular or stand alone. Stand alone systems are GREAT. Hook up the inputs and outputs and you have water. How cool is that! The devil is in the details though. Stand alone units have all the controls on the front of them. Do you have a place to put it where you are comfortable getting to the front every time you turn it on or off? Do you want to crawl into some deep dark place every time?

Yes you can get a standalone model with a remote panel. That is fantastic, but it comes with a price. If you go with a standalone model and a remote panel just make sure the model you get has a high pressure adjustment capability either automatic or from the remote. This is critical and is more expensive than one might imagine.

The other choice is a modular unit. With these you get separate components that you plumb and wire together to make a watermaker. This allows you to have your panel anywhere you can get hosers and electrical to. This also allows you to be creative with your component placement.

The challenge to a modular system is you are going to have to be more technically inclined than with a standalone system. The work is not all that difficult, but it is work involving plumbing, and wiring, some of it high pressure plumbing.

I opted for a modular system. I am technical by nature and found that it was pretty enjoyable to install, and learn how watermakers work. I installed my panel in the salon because I use it every day and I didn’t want the trouble of moving stuff out of the way to get to the lazarette, or to get down into the engine room just to make some water.

I opted for a 40 gallon per hour unit because I knew from my Katadyne watermaker experience that my usage is about 40 to 50 gallons per day. Yes we like to take showers every day. Yes we like to do dishes and not have to be concerned with turning off the water while we brush our teeth. We also fish and like keeping the cockpit clean using nice fresh water.
We also like clean clothes, so the onboard washing machine gets used frequently.

I also opted for a unit that has zero proprietary parts. Why? that is simple. I do not want to be dependent on my watermaker manufacturer for the rest of the units life. I want to be able to shop for replacement parts where I want to shop for them, and not be locked in to any one brand.

Who did I buy my system from? Rich over at Cruise RO that’s who. Great small business run by a cruiser who uses his products and cares about his customers.
Great post.
 
Kevin,

I agree with Tom, great post! Very useful info for anyone considering installing or replacing a watermaker.
 
Aquamarine modular. Great system. I've had it for about 20 years. Been easy to maintain and upgrade. High pressure hose got a hole in it up in the Broughtons. Pierre at Echo Bay had a old pressure washer hose and with a little finagling we got the ends on and installed. That was 6 years ago. Dan is great to work with at Aquamarine
 
Spectra Newport 12VDC

Our boat was fitted with a Spectra Newport MKII, which is 12VDC and (I think) 17gph.

Since I didn’t select or install it, I don’t take credit for the good results or feel bad about whatever we are missing out on. I am a water maker AMATEUR.

We like the idea of running the unit when we are underway. When we are underway, we have plenty of 12VDC available and do not normally run the generator. We are usually in cleaner open water, underway, than we were anchored in.

If we had an AC unit, we would need more generator runtime (out in the open water) and/or more filters to run it in the anchorages.

We find the capacity more than adequate. I will “bucket wash” the boat, we do laundry, cook, wash dishes, shower, and flush the fresh water toilet normally.

The Spectra has been mostly reliable. They have been helpful when we have called them. Given our use pattern and electricity situation, I would likely replace with a similar 12VDC unit if necessary.
 
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