Water Tanks - Repair/Replace - Opinions

[CarlinLA]

Hi Everybody...

That was a great turn-out of thoughts and opinions -perhaps even a few facts interspersed in there. The crusticles are pretty disturbing.

Ethics... i understand that Ronco needs to protect their resellers by maintaining a retail price for their retail customers. I almost think the wholesaler retailer relationship is an outdated business model. The web has just transformed the market and any serious buyer can establish a best price and expect to pay that price... but what do I know about money... my hobby is boating.

So I need replacement tanks, Ronco sells a viable replacement, both tanks at retail are less than a boat-buck, and most are in agreement that replacement is the most reasonable path forward.

I'm no elitist... I can use a food service tank or agriculture tank if they will fit... 33Lx18hx20w... rectangle... anybody have a source for something like that?

 

[HeadMistress]

You said you'd found one in the Ronco catalog. Their marine tanks are top quality, with walls about 50% thicker than most others,which means they can support the weight of the contents, which would be 428 lbs in a tank that size, without bulging and flexing, which causes cheap thin tanks to fail. Plus, they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. And, they're in Tustin, less than an hour's drive from you, so you could go get it and save the cost of shipping.

It's ALWAYS cheaper and easier to do ANYthing right the first time than it is to do it over, and the amount you'd save by "cheaping out" this time won't be enough for it make any economic sense to risk having to replace it again.

And btw, Ronco's direct retail prices are below their reseller's retail prices.

 

[CarlinLA]

OK...

Ronco it is...

Went to Tustin this morning - heavy traffic headed southbound... found it easy enough.

Welcoming type workers there...

Your choice - black or white plastic...

Choice but not that you have a choice - thick or thin wall - told them it was for a boat - instant thick...

Made my order and made arrangements to pick them up in about two weeks...

Cool.

The photo is of the manufacturing area - with the machines that roto the plastic against the mold - also cool.

More to follow when the tanks are available.

Carl

 

[ulysses]

Do they mold in or tap fittings ?

 

[CarlinLA]

Tap.

The technician requested to do the inserts on Saturday morning when I pick the up... said it takes 5-minutes per tank.

Will give me a chance to take pictures of the existing to verify measurements.

 

[FF]

Most tank fittings first have a hole cut and then a big router spin welds whatever fittings you desire in place.

It is fairly cheap per fitting so do not forget to install at least a 2 inch deain as low as you can get in the tank.

Winterizing can take a LOOOOng time is the fresh water pump is needed to drain it.

Thick wall, thin wall, all plastic tanks will flex, and work harden.

The best plan is to install the tank in a reinforced box , ply is fine, if you only want to purchase one set of tanks.

While the tank is new it is a good idea to install a clean out port , the after market fuel tank units work fine.

Someday the tank will sit too long and grow "stuff" inside , nice to be able to scrub it rather than flush multiple times , and to hope its clean.

 

[MurrayM]

The best plan is to install the tank in a reinforced box , ply is fine, if you only want to purchase one set of tanks.

Don't some plastic tanks swell and you're supposed to account for it, or is that just with fuel tanks?

 

[sunchaser]

Many Al vessels with integral tanks. Most in salt water. Some much older than the OPs tanks. Not disputing that Al tanks can rot out, I had a Seaward water heater tank that went kaput after 10 years, I'd view construction, installation or stray currents as a much bigger worry than city water.

Oh those poor older Flemings, what will they do given Tony's penchant for Al tanks? Art DeFever got it right, SS water tanks!

 

[FF]

Fuel causes plastic tanks to grow on the first fill up, which has to be done before they are tied down.

Not water

 

[bayview]

On metal tanks the bottom can be cut off and new welded on. depending on the tank it may be worth considering.

 

[CarlinLA]

Crawled back into the laz today to plan the tank replacement...

Good news on the wood deck supports - they are bolted in place. should be easy to remove.

Evidence of the tank leaks. planning on repainting lazzerete to refresh those surfaces.

BTW - how do you like that chopper-gun layup on the Taiwan Trawler? Eh, uh, well, hummm... no.

 

[FF]

"how do you like that chopper-gun layup on the Taiwan Trawler? Eh, uh, well, hummm... no."

Properly done a chopper gun laminate does meet LLoyds GRP rules.

 

[Capt Jack]

Crawled back into the laz today to plan the tank replacement...

Good news on the wood deck supports - they are bolted in place. should be easy to remove.

Evidence of the tank leaks. planning on repainting lazzerete to refresh those surfaces.

What model is Satori? I have a 1984 34 Europa with the same issue on the starboard side tank. Will be very interested in following your progress on this project!

John

 

[CarlinLA]

Crawled back into the laz today to plan the tank replacement...

What model is Satori? I have a 1984 34 Europa with the same issue on the starboard side tank. Will be very interested in following your progress on this project!

John

Satori is a 1985 model... Post a pic of your interior - want to see the differences...

Looking forward to the lazarette remodel... fresh paint all around, new tanks and plumbing... should really bring that area back to bristol.

 

[Capt Jack]

Satori is a 1985 model... Post a pic of your interior - want to see the differences...

Looking forward to the lazarette remodel... fresh paint all around, new tanks and plumbing... should really bring that area back to bristol.

Sorry for the delay - i travel a lot for business and can't always monitor while on the road. I will be back on Salty this weekend and will get some photos of the interior.

Nice looking boat!

John

 

[CarlinLA]

Picked up the replacement water tanks from Ronco earlier today.

Major learning process.

The tanks come out of the roto-mold with all solid sides. The technician has to drill holes specific to each tank situation.

After drilling the tank is vacuumed.

Then he "heat-welds" the appropriate fitting to the tank.

Ronco had ball valves and nipples too.

And both tanks fit in the Honda.

Cool.

 

[boatpoker]

"how do you like that chopper-gun layup on the Taiwan Trawler? Eh, uh, well, hummm... no."

Properly done a chopper gun laminate does meet LLoyds GRP rules.

LLoyd and his other brother Darrell ?

jus' kiddin' . I'd like to learn more about that, do you have a link ? I have not been able to find a GRP reference in their rules.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

LLoyd and his other brother Darrell ?

jus' kiddin' . I'd like to learn more about that, do you have a link ? I have not been able to find a GRP reference in their rules.

He's not far off the mark. There is nothing wrong with a proper chopper gun job used in the correct way. And I wouldn't be surprised if it could meet certain class requirements depending on the classification society involved and level of class the boat is being built to.

But it wouldn't surprise me if that is not a copper gun job. Just an average job of hand lay up of chop cloth.

 

[boatpoker]

He's not far off the mark. There is nothing wrong with a proper chopper gun job used in the correct way. And I wouldn't be surprised if it could meet certain class requirements depending on the classification society involved and level of class the boat is being built to.

But it wouldn't surprise me if that is not a copper gun job. Just an average job of hand lay up of chop cloth.

Not really interested in whats wrong or not wrong with it, I already know, I've worked a lot with both. I'd just like to learn about Lloyds requirements for it.

 

[boatpoker]

"how do you like that chopper-gun layup on the Taiwan Trawler? Eh, uh, well, hummm... no."

Properly done a chopper gun laminate does meet LLoyds GRP rules.

Don't bother, I found them.

 

[CarlinLA]

It is fairly cheap per fitting so do not forget to install at least a 2 inch drain as low as you can get in the tank.

Winterizing can take a LOOOOng time is the fresh water pump is needed to drain it.

Yea.

I remembered.

But I went with a 1-1/2 bulk drain.

 

[ulysses]

They look nice and functional. One question on the heat installation of the fittings you refer to it as "heat welding" when it is being "welded" is heat being applied on both the inside and outside of the tank / fitting ? Did they happen to mention the temperature to perform this task ? and a certain type of plastic (HDPE ?)
About the time I was getting out of the pipeline business they were starting to spec HDPE pipe on certain projects and I did not make the investment in the heat welding equipment. Just did not bid those jobs but I did try to learn enough about it to ask some more questions. It was my understanding that one form had to have heat on both sides applied to properly weld. They do look good/ clean/ and well made. I hope they serve you well.

 

[CarlinLA]

Friction.

He had something of a router with a driver that fit the fitting - spinning it really fast while pressing down. When the smoke cleared the fitting truely appears welded.

They said it is a polyurethane tank???

Appreciate the good thoughts... this job is only 20% done.

They look nice and functional. One question on the heat installation of the fittings you refer to it as "heat welding" when it is being "welded" is heat being applied on both the inside and outside of the tank / fitting ? Did they happen to mention the temperature to perform this task ? and a certain type of plastic (HDPE ?)
About the time I was getting out of the pipeline business they were starting to spec HDPE pipe on certain projects and I did not make the investment in the heat welding equipment. Just did not bid those jobs but I did try to learn enough about it to ask some more questions. It was my understanding that one form had to have heat on both sides applied to properly weld. They do look good/ clean/ and well made. I hope they serve you well.

 

[ulysses]

So the heat was produced through friction and would necessarily be throughout the fitting and both sides. I had wondered if they did not just thicken in extrusion or mold and boss an area thicker then tap did not look like that was going on.
Thanks and good luck.

 

[FF]

It is not possible to thicken a box inside in one spot ,,so the spun in fitting has a wide flange that increases the surface area .

 

[CarlinLA]

It is not possible to thicken a box inside in one spot ,,so the spun in fitting has a wide flange that increases the surface area .

I believe I did see some that were thickened... but the thickening was on the outside - which makes senseas the rotomold pushes the urethane to the outside of the mold

 

[CarlinLA]

Continuing progress... port tank is out.

Many holes.

Laz needs paint.

Yucky whitish water pouring out.

But it is on its way to the recycler.

Up next... Kilz Adhesion!

 

[CarlinLA]

Taiwan turkey quality...

I lifted this post base off the hull with little effort...

Of course it is 30-years old - and soaked from the leak.

 

[Capt Jack]

Satori is a 1985 model... Post a pic of your interior - want to see the differences...

Looking forward to the lazarette remodel... fresh paint all around, new tanks and plumbing... should really bring that area back to bristol.

As requested (finally...) sorry, work definitely gets in the way sometimes.

John

 

[CarlinLA]

Very similar but apparently reversed in the salon and your head is opposite mine...