Water Pump problems

[RobClipper30]

Hey all,

First time posting a thread so hopefully following the right protocols here!

I’ve picked up a 1980 Clipper 30 Flybridge and overall a lot of fun but having a problem I thought you all might be familiar with.

After a refill of the water tanks (not directly but soon after) when the taps are turned on there’s a large clicking / banging noise happening.

My guess is it’s the water pumps / system. It’s an intermittent problem and I do get pressure out of the taps still but I noticed that leaving the switch on at the electrics console is draining like 40w of power constantly (I turn off switch when not in use now).

I know that when I bought the boat a couple of weeks back this wasn’t the case and it didn’t make the noise and also allowed the main switch to be on without draining the hell out of the batteries.

So something has changed recently, although noting it is a 40 year old boat too!

Any help greatly appreciated!

Rob

 

[MSutton]

I would make sure the noise is indeed coming from the water pump. Could it be "water hammer" from a loose water line?

As for the power draw, 40 watts on a 12 volt system is only about 3.5 amps. Still, you should not see any additional amps unless the water pump(s) are running. You may want to make sure there is nothing else connected to that circuit. If the water pumps are drawing power when idle, it might be time to replace them.

 

[O C Diver]

Rob,

Welcome to the forum!

It would be helpful if you provided the following information.

Make and model of pump.
Is the pressure switch built in?
Is there an expansion tank?
Have you checked the bladder pressure of the expansion tank?
When the switch is on, do you feel the pump running and / or does it get warm / hot?

Ted

 

[RobClipper30]

Thanks very much for your help fellas.

To answer some of the questions

- Make and model of pump.

Photo attached here.

Is the pressure switch built in?

Sorry too novice to answer that!

Is there an expansion tank?

From what I can tell, the water comes from the holding tank pumped via device on the attached photo and then goes into a big white tank (like 50L in size). From there it goes into a number of smaller pipes which connect to tape etc. I


-Have you checked the bladder pressure of the expansion tank?

Per above not sure what it is

When the switch is on, do you feel the pump running and / or does it get warm / hot?

Yes when the switch is on, the pump runs constantly - the belt in the photo spinning non stop.

Also today there was another development which is now there is practically zero water coming out when the taps are on.

Weirdly (not sure if it’s related ) I also recall some lead up / past events like using the cold water tap pumping out hot water (and not after someone has just used hot).

Lastly I checked the water tank and it’s close to full!

Thanks again in advance for any guidance.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[O C Diver]

Thanks very much for your help fellas.

To answer some of the questions

- Make and model of pump.

Photo attached here. View attachment 111745

Is the pressure switch built in?

Sorry too novice to answer that!

Is there an expansion tank?

From what I can tell, the water comes from the holding tank pumped via device on the attached photo and then goes into a big white tank (like 50L in size). From there it goes into a number of smaller pipes which connect to tape etc. I


-Have you checked the bladder pressure of the expansion tank?

Per above not sure what it is

When the switch is on, do you feel the pump running and / or does it get warm / hot?

Yes when the switch is on, the pump runs constantly - the belt in the photo spinning non stop.

Also today there was another development which is now there is practically zero water coming out when the taps are on.

Weirdly (not sure if it’s related ) I also recall some lead up / past events like using the cold water tap pumping out hot water (and not after someone has just used hot).

Lastly I checked the water tank and it’s close to full!

Thanks again in advance for any guidance.

Likely that the big white tank is your expansion tank. For most of these tanks, there is a bladder inside. On the side opposite from the water connection there often is a Schrader (tire valve) that allows you to add air pressure. Ideally the pressure is a couple of PSI above where the pump turns on. When the pump runs, it forces water into the tank, moving the bladder and compressing the air. When trouble shooting the system, one opens a faucet until no more water comes out and then checks the air pressure. I don't think this is your problem.

If the power cord goes directly to the pump from the switch you turn it on with, then the pressure switch is likely built into the pump. I don't think this is your problem either.

If the pump runs continuously and you have little to no water flow, you could have the following problems:

The line from the tank to the pump could be obstructed. I don't think this is the problem as you were getting some water flow which would have eventually built up pressure and turned the pump off (everything else working correctly).

Depending on how the pump is configured, the output valve or the pump could be leaking or worn out. This is a likely possibility as the pump runs but no longer builds up meaningful pressure.

The pump, which appears to be quite old, could be worn out and no longer internally seals well enough to build pressure when running. This is also a likely possibility.

Unless there is someone you can take the pump to that can obtain a rebuild kit (if one is even available), I think you are probably in need of a new pump, IMO.

Ted

On further review, that pump (Jabsco Par 36950-1000) is still listed and is a diaphragm pump. A Google search for the name and model in the above parentheses and switching to "Images" will show you some historical documents including a parts breakdown. That model has been replaced by 36950-2000. Whether there are any parts available or parts from the new Jabsco model are compatible, I can't tell you. Usually at this point I would consider a new pump.

Ted

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Those old Par, belt driven pumps are real workhorses but yours just plain looks tired.

Get a new variable speed pump. A couple hundred bucks at most. They really are nice, quiet and lots of pressure. You will not need the pressure tank unless you run two outlets at once (shower and sink, for example)

Welcome Aboard.

pete

 

[bayview]

Open all taps and run water until all spitting stops to bleed air from the system

 

[RobClipper30]

Thanks all.

I’ve tried bleeding the air via running all taps and no good so it looks like it’s time for a new pump!

Really appreciated.

Rob

 

[C lectric]

I like these pumps and still have them in use. In fact I've got 4 of them, 2 for re/re of the system when needed, but the other two are for different purposes.
Hang onto the old pump as you may find other uses for it as I have done.

I converted one to a bilge pump by the replacement of the valves. There is a difference between the fresh water valves and the bilge pump valve. The valves are interchangeable. The bilge pumps have much coarser openings. These things make a good bilge pump as they can be mounted somewhere out of the way above the bilge using a hose to be dropped into the lowest point of the bilge. They will self prime and can suction lift water several feet and then push it through the output hose Use a small end of hose strainer to keep debris to large to pass out of the pump. Then of course you need a throughull out for the exhaust of the water overboard.

Mine has done good service for at least 20 yrs now removing the slow buildup of bilge water. The other I use for doing other mtce. work such as emptying the water tanks so I don't abuse the pressure water pump.

Of course I do have several centrifugal Rule pumps for mass evacuation but they cannot deal with the small levels of water that this one can.

If you flat out don't want it donate it to the local chandlery/used boat parts place as some twit like me will like take it or offer it as a freebee/near freebee to a marina dockmate..

I still watch for them and if cheap enough and operable I will still take one. 5 might be [pushing it a bit though.


Before I go I will say they are rebuildable but the parts now add up. BUt the valves to convert to a good bilge pump are inexpensive.

 

[Greg S]

Nautical terminology 101.

Fuel tank = gasoline or diesel
Day tank = (usually) fuel for engine pumped there from larger fuel storage tanks aboard. Probably not found on your new 30 foot boat. Sometimes also for stove or heater.
Water tank = potable (drinking) water storage tank
Grey water tank = storage of sink, shower and other used water prior to it being discharged overboard
HOLDING tank = poop tank aka "Black water" tank aka sewage tank.
Expansion tank = Small storage tank that expanded coolant from your engine goes into temporarily until the engine cools down again and sucks it back into the cooling system, due to heat expansion/contraction of the fluid when the motor runs. There sometimes is one on a cold water entry side of a hot water tank but not frequently on a boat.
Pressure tank or Water pressure tank = storage and pressure maintaining tank for your domestic water system on a boat or in a house with a well. Air pressure maintains usable water pressure and stores a bit of volume so the pump doesn't have to come on all the time.

Happy boating! Enjoy the new boat, it all gets easier and is a pleasure at some point.

 

[Barking Sands]

Welcome. Make sure you make a separate post with plenty of pictures for your boat. Love the clipper 30s.

 

[Insequent]

Likely that the big white tank is your expansion tank. For most of these tanks, there is a bladder inside. On the side opposite from the water connection there often is a Schrader (tire valve) that allows you to add air pressure. Ideally the pressure is a couple of PSI above where the pump turns on. When the pump runs, it forces water into the tank, moving the bladder and compressing the air. When trouble shooting the system, one opens a faucet until no more water comes out and then checks the air pressure. I don't think this is your problem.

If the power cord goes directly to the pump from the switch you turn it on with, then the pressure switch is likely built into the pump. I don't think this is your problem either.

If the pump runs continuously and you have little to no water flow, you could have the following problems:

The line from the tank to the pump could be obstructed. I don't think this is the problem as you were getting some water flow which would have eventually built up pressure and turned the pump off (everything else working correctly).

Depending on how the pump is configured, the output valve or the pump could be leaking or worn out. This is a likely possibility as the pump runs but no longer builds up meaningful pressure.

The pump, which appears to be quite old, could be worn out and no longer internally seals well enough to build pressure when running. This is also a likely possibility.

Unless there is someone you can take the pump to that can obtain a rebuild kit (if one is even available), I think you are probably in need of a new pump, IMO.

Ted

On further review, that pump (Jabsco Par 36950-1000) is still listed and is a diaphragm pump. A Google search for the name and model in the above parentheses and switching to "Images" will show you some historical documents including a parts breakdown. That model has been replaced by 36950-2000. Whether there are any parts available or parts from the new Jabsco model are compatible, I can't tell you. Usually at this point I would consider a new pump.

Ted

Perhaps one thing I can add is that the pump may be sucking air on the inlet side. In that case your full water tank would likely leak water into the bilge as well. Is you bilge water increasing?

Maybe it seems a silly thing to check, but is there a valve between the water tank and the pump that might have been turned off?