Water Makers - Which to install?

[mixman]

I have the terrible problem of owning two water makers. One is a Katadyn 80e I've had for a number of years on my smaller boat. It runs well and only has a few hundred hours on it. My 36' trawler I'm now using came with a Spectra 150 MPC (long story short, both water makers came from the same person/friend). The Spectra is not installed, it was lightly used and I believe in great shape. For those not familiar with these two units they both draw about the same 8/9 amps (12v) but the Spectra puts out around 6gph vs 3gph for the Katadyn. However, the Katadyn is so much smaller and simpler I'm thinking of installing that on my 36' trawler and storing (or selling) the Spectra. Does anyone have any experience with both of these units such as the double output is worth it for the Spectra? I should note that power is not an issue on my boat with 700 watts of solar, a wind turbine, and a generator.

Thanks!

 

[twistedtree]

To me, you can never have too much watermaker output. I would definitely use the higher capacity unit.

 

[Crusty Chief]

To me, you can never have too much watermaker output. I would definitely use the higher capacity unit.

Me 2! 40+ is needed for me and my wasteful ways!

 

[stubones99]

If either one will work for your purposes, let the cost of expendable parts be a guideline. What do the filters, membranes, pickle juice, etc., cost on both, based on gallons of water filtered, and see which one has a lower cost of operation.
Are both 110vac or is the smaller one 12vdc?
Is one noisier than the other?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Me 2! 40+ is needed for me and my wasteful ways!

Me too!

6GPH? I wouldn't survive with that rate. Yeah, Crusty talked me into RO water maker.

My advice: Sell both and get a better water maker.

 

[john61ct]

Since power is not the issue, I would install a 30-40 gph unit.

But obviously depends on your needs and usage.

Either unit will get a good price if you ensure it's working well and pickle properly.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Since power is not the issue, I would install a 30-40 gph unit.

But obviously depends on your needs and usage.

Either unit will get a good price if you ensure it's working well and pickle properly.

here is what Crusty and I used.

Cruise RO Water & Power: Watermakers for Boats & Yachts

 

[cafesport]

For such a small amount of water I think I would just fabricate a catchment system out of a tarp if I didn’t have a Bimini or a sunshade readily available. You might be surprised by the amount water you can collect during a 15 minute rain squall. I guess the first question you need to answer is how much water do you think you use per year?

 

[Lepke]

Having plenty of fresh water is a luxury afloat. Long hot showers when you're tired, laundry, dishwasher, maybe flush your toilets with fresh so they don't turn green. I go with everybody that recommends Cruise RO. I have a 40gph. Plus I flush mine with fresh water so I don't have to pickle. When my tanks are full, I partially fill a 5 gallon bucket in 5 or 6 minutes and then draw that water back thru the salt water pump and the system, discarding the made water overboard.

 

[mixman]

here is what Crusty and I used.

Cruise RO Water & Power: Watermakers for Boats & Yachts

Thanks, and I appreciate that link (they look like nice units) but I already own the two I listed. Selling used stuff isn’t all that easy in my experience. I’m looking to choose which of the two I have to go with (or, as some personal friends have said: install both).

 

[mixman]

If either one will work for your purposes, let the cost of expendable parts be a guideline. What do the filters, membranes, pickle juice, etc., cost on both, based on gallons of water filtered, and see which one has a lower cost of operation.
Are both 110vac or is the smaller one 12vdc?
Is one noisier than the other?

Good points, thanks. I think the higher capacity one (Spectra) is supposed to be a bit quieter but the other one wasn’t all that loud either (I’ve used that one for years on my 30’ power cat). Both are 12v. I would prefer to make water when the solar panels and/or wind turbine are charging batteries. 110v would require generator to be on.

 

[mixman]

Me 2! 40+ is needed for me and my wasteful ways!

Our power cat only holds 36 gallons of fresh water and we shower daily and do rinse the boat off after a salt-water passage. The 3gph unit worked for us fine in both the Chesapeake Bay and the weeks we’ve spent in the Abacos. However, we are thinking of spending more time in the Bahamas in the larger trawler (now that the admiral has retired and I’m mobile with my small business). Ugh, these horrible problems to have!

 

[Retriever]

Spectra is now owned by Katadyn. Consider contacting their support (support is excellent, in my experience) and asking if parts will be available for both models for the foreseeable future.

I have the larger sized Katadyn PowerSurvivor (160gpd). It's been a good unit, very simple and easy to take care of. The automation on the Spectras is definitely convenient, though, especially automatic back-flushing so you don't have to do it yourself or pickle the watermaker.

The 6-7 gph watermaker works well in my use, where it's mostly one or two people on the boat and I'm underway for 4+ hours most days. Since these are both DC units, it's ideal to run them when underway when there's plenty of power, cleaner water, and other machinery noises to mask the watermaker noise.

If I was the type to spend an hour or two underway then a week at anchor, I think I'd go with a big AC watermaker to crank out a bunch of gallons with the least amount of generator time...

 

[Larry M]

I’d sell the Spectra. You have experience with the Kayatyn and it’s worked for you in the past. The Spectra is a good unit but the pumps proprietary I beleave.

 

[mixman]

I’d sell the Spectra. You have experience with the Kayatyn and it’s worked for you in the past. The Spectra is a good unit but the pumps proprietary I beleave.

Yes, I hear the Clark pumps can be an issue. The Katadyn has been rock solid the past 6 or so years which is why I'm leaning towards installing that one (plus it is smaller and much simpler in design).

 

[mixman]

Spectra is now owned by Katadyn. Consider contacting their support (support is excellent, in my experience) and asking if parts will be available for both models for the foreseeable future.

They certainly do have good support. But they also have great products so I've only had to call them about installation questions!

I have the larger sized Katadyn PowerSurvivor (160gpd). It's been a good unit, very simple and easy to take care of. The automation on the Spectras is definitely convenient, though, especially automatic back-flushing so you don't have to do it yourself or pickle the watermaker.

Good points, but your 160 is very, very similar to my 80 and you know that to pickle them takes what, 5 minutes? They're so easy to work on! I also manually back-flush my 80 with fresh water if I'm not using it for a week or so. Again, easy!

The 6-7 gph watermaker works well in my use, where it's mostly one or two people on the boat and I'm underway for 4+ hours most days. Since these are both DC units, it's ideal to run them when underway when there's plenty of power, cleaner water, and other machinery noises to mask the watermaker noise.

If I was the type to spend an hour or two underway then a week at anchor, I think I'd go with a big AC watermaker to crank out a bunch of gallons with the least amount of generator time...

Our power cat was is an 18 knot boat so trips will be longer on this trawler I have. I like making water when underway and when the power is free from solar during the day. Like you I'd prefer not to have to run a generator to make water. Thanks for your input!

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Mo' Water.

 

[foreverunderway]

I built my own. First I searched to find a new (2 hours as a test pump @ Cruise RO [Rich is a great source of help, w/o the hard sell]) motor/pump combination for less than half the price of a new one.
Then, knowing the pump capability I purchased the membrane and other parts to assemble a 35 gph system for under 2k.

It really is not hard and there is so much info on the web that any mechanically minded person can do it easily.
As an added benefit, since I built it, I don't need some $125.00 an hour tech to change filters or membranes, etc.

 

[Gordon J]

Hmmmmm

Yes, I hear the Clark pumps can be an issue. The Katadyn has been rock solid the past 6 or so years which is why I'm leaning towards installing that one (plus it is smaller and much simpler in design).

I have owned and used extensively two spectras. I have never had, nor have i heard of any other owner having a problem with the Clark pump.

Gordon

 

[mixman]

I have owned and used extensively two spectras. I have never had, nor have i heard of any other owner having a problem with the Clark pump.

Gordon

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Daveo]

In your situation I would install both units. I have one of the katadyn 160s. It is robust and dependable but I’m shopping for a second one for my boat now. I want the redundancy. Copious fresh water, enough to waste a little, may not be essential but it sure is nice.

 

[sunchaser]

For such a small amount of water I think I would just fabricate a catchment system out of a tarp if I didn’t have a Bimini or a sunshade readily available. You might be surprised by the amount water you can collect during a 15 minute rain squall. I guess the first question you need to answer is how much water do you think you use per year?

Good point. In my old offshore sailing days fresh water was for drinking, rain water or an ocean dunk for dishes and showering.

Fortunately we have tankage for 400 gallons of fresh water. In our cruising grounds we've never yet had a need for an RO unit. Lots of good shore based refill sites. Even plenty of water with guests on board. That said, this past summer we cruised with a vessel that could not get by on 400 gallons for even a few days. Their RO was really working.

So the bottom line seems with high usage and small tanks, follow the RO suggestions above. BTW, we have a unit picked out (Village Marine) and the boat locale if the need arises.

 

[mixman]

After a few weeks of thinking about this I am leaning towards installing both 12v units as suggested above. I have no desire to catch rain water, nor to take salt water baths (not my preferences). The AC/110v units sound great, but one must have AC to run them. What happens if ones generator decides to not behave? What about making water while underway and no other need to run a generator? Sure, 3-6 gph doesn't sound like a lot, but 12v RO units cycle their pumps so that's what one gets. I'd rather have 3gph off solar or alternators than depend on a running a generator just to make water.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

After a few weeks of thinking about this I am leaning towards installing both 12v units as suggested above. I have no desire to catch rain water, nor to take salt water baths (not my preferences). The AC/110v units sound great, but one must have AC to run them. What happens if ones generator decides to not behave? What about making water while underway and no other need to run a generator? Sure, 3-6 gph doesn't sound like a lot, but 12v RO units cycle their pumps so that's what one gets. I'd rather have 3gph off solar or alternators than depend on a running a generator just to make water.

Geez are you anti-generator? If it breaks you fix it.

 

[tiltrider1]

Everybody has different needs and a different budget. I need or want 30 gph and the 3 gallons a day in diesel would never be noticed.

 

[mixman]

I'm not anti-generator (both boats I own have them) nor am I on some sort of low budget. I've used the smaller water maker I have for years now and run it off solar most of the time. Parts for generators (and other mechanical items) aren't always that easy to come by, especially in the Bahamas. The sun there is strong enough that decent solar will easily make plenty of water per day with a 12v system. This may be more of a regional preference. It seems the 110v comments may be coming from people further north than I am. That would certainly make sense with the lower sun angle. For me, MD and south it just doesn't make sense to rack up hours on a generator for only making water when alternatives are available.

 

[john61ct]

Me, I'd also prefer 12V, but would forget the battery/solar and size my alternator(s) to support a 30-40gph unit.

 

[mixman]

Me, I'd also prefer 12V, but would forget the battery/solar and size my alternator(s) to support a 30-40gph unit.

My real-world experience on my smaller boat was that the 235-watt solar panel with about a 300ah battery bank ran the 80e unit for hours per day to make plenty of water. On boat #2 I've got 650 watts of solar and 700ah of batteries (plus a wind turbine). 12v power shouldn't be an issue. I don't think one can get anywhere near 30gph from a 12v water maker. The high pressure pump requires nearly 800psi for most membranes. 110v can do that constantly (think "pressure washer") but 12v motors can't. Thus they cycle on and off and give that lower output of potable water.

 

[Gordon J]

But you can get 14 - 16 gallons per hour from a 12 volt spectra unit.

 

[Wxx3]

I’d sell the Spectra. You have experience with the Kayatyn and it’s worked for you in the past. The Spectra is a good unit but the pumps proprietary I beleave.

I agree with Larry and Retriever.
I too have the Kataydn 160 and love its simplicity.