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Old 03-06-2021, 09:38 AM   #21
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I saw reverse thrust from the port prop, so its not like it was solidly stuck in fwd. Must be more to the story. And he hit twice, so there was a decision after the first incident to give it another go.

Puzzling there, and the videos make no comment on either.
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:40 AM   #22
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I saw reverse thrust from the port prop, so its not like it was solidly stuck in fwd. Must be more to the story. And he hit twice, so there was a decision after the first incident to give it another go.

Puzzling there, and the videos make no comment on either.
Yes, the video is VERY confusing with regards to figuring out what was going on.
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:52 AM   #23
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Seems odd to me that the captain mentions the use of the bow thruster but there is no evidence of a bow thruster wake in any of the videos. Also, with the port in reverse and the starboard in forward there is very little movement of the bow to port as you would expect. Perhaps the props are closely spaced or due to the size there is little effect from opposite thrust.
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:57 AM   #24
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Watch the video in post #13 - it explains quite well what happened.
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Old 03-06-2021, 10:06 AM   #25
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Also, with the port in reverse and the starboard in forward there is very little movement of the bow to port as you would expect. Perhaps the props are closely spaced or due to the size there is little effect from opposite thrust.

Depends on the underwater shape of the hull as well. Some pivot pretty far forward and will move the stern sideways more than the bow.
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Old 03-06-2021, 10:36 AM   #26
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Watch the video in post #13 - it explains quite well what happened.
No, that video does not explain it well at all.

Look at the vid in post #3. Clearly shows port prop in reverse at times, apparently in some amount of control, and seems to show stbd in fwd. If stbd was out of control in fwd, correct thing to do was shut down stbd and maneuver with port and thrusters. Saw no thruster wake, but that might have been occluded by hull. If stbd was running in fwd un-commanded, a call to the engr to shut it down locally should have been made.

The vid in post #13 discusses none of this. And makes no discussion why capt makes a second go at it.
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Old 03-06-2021, 11:07 AM   #27
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The video around 4:10 discusses the 1st failure, around 4:50 discusses the 2nd
failure.
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Old 03-06-2021, 11:19 AM   #28
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I could argue that electronic controls leave a few things to be desired... one is accidents. Electric vehicles has a higher rate of crashes. (Kelly Richmond, Future insights)



I'm not a big fan of computer control that could cause catastrophic accidents when they fail. Look at Sully's issue, the Boeing Max, this incident, etc.


In "my" world my electronics have failed significantly more that their old mechanical counterparts and are MUCH more expensive to fix. (mostly aircraft, fortunately)



My boat is pretty much mechanical, except for the Glendinning throttle/shift control, which is really a great unit. I "can" operate it manually if it quits, but would require two people to do that.



Good old mechanical is hard to beat. And a good electronic device for information gathering (MFD) works great with that, as it can't cause the engine or thrusters to quit or malfunction.
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Old 03-06-2021, 11:38 AM   #29
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The video around 4:10 discusses the 1st failure, around 4:50 discusses the 2nd
failure.
Hardly any discussion. He mentions computer failure 1 and computer failure 2. No discussion, no analysis of the second run into the YC dock without having figured out what went wrong on the first try. We don't even hear how much time between the two impacts.

I hope someone lets us know as the investigation proceeds.
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Old 03-06-2021, 12:50 PM   #30
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I could argue that electronic controls leave a few things to be desired... one is accidents. Electric vehicles has a higher rate of crashes. (Kelly Richmond, Future insights)



I'm not a big fan of computer control that could cause catastrophic accidents when they fail. Look at Sully's issue, the Boeing Max, this incident, etc.


In "my" world my electronics have failed significantly more that their old mechanical counterparts and are MUCH more expensive to fix. (mostly aircraft, fortunately)



My boat is pretty much mechanical, except for the Glendinning throttle/shift control, which is really a great unit. I "can" operate it manually if it quits, but would require two people to do that.



Good old mechanical is hard to beat. And a good electronic device for information gathering (MFD) works great with that, as it can't cause the engine or thrusters to quit or malfunction.
Respectfully, wasn't Sully's crash due to ingesting some geese in the engines, i.e. a good ol mechanical failure? Like it or not, everything will be electrically controlled going eventually. I don't know if there is data supporting that electrical controls of cars are more crash prone. If there is I would think it's only because they are new, but eventually will be much better than humans at detecting danger and intervening.
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Old 03-07-2021, 11:47 AM   #31
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... I'm not a big fan of computer control that could cause catastrophic accidents when they fail. Look at Sully's issue, the Boeing Max, this incident, etc. ...
These incidents are not related.

Sully's incident was the result of mechanical damage to the engines. No amount of electrical or mechanical controls would have changed the situation.

The MAX issue was poor system design. There was a design solution to the issue, just very few people knew about it. But that was because of business reasons.

The boat issue was also a design issue. The controls lost power and the engines could not be controlled. There either should have been a independent backup power supply for the electronic controls or mechanical overrides to shut down the engines (like the fire handles on an airplane). Or maybe a heartbeat signal from the controller to the high pressure fuel pump or the injectors. Heartbeat stops, fuel stops.
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Old 03-07-2021, 12:28 PM   #32
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I was running a new 61 Viking up the coast, pulled into Fernandina for fuel and nite stop. Maneuvered around the docks and one engine rev'd up with no command. It was in N. I did not dare put it in gear. Shut down worked. Was able to get docked with the other engine and dockhands.

Owner called, had a MAN tech sent out, trouble shot the system and said everything was fine. And it did work ok for the rest of the trip. Sketched me out.
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:52 PM   #33
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Did I miss it or were warning signals sounded before the filming started in the #1 post video? Seems like there should have been horns sounding at least up to first contact with the dock to keep folks away and again for the second hit.
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