Washington State Ferry hard landing

[twistedtree]

I love how the coast guard referred to it as being "only cosmetic damage". I guess if it's not sinking, it's only cosmetic.

 

[backinblue]

I love how the coast guard referred to it as being "only cosmetic damage". I guess if it's not sinking, it's only cosmetic.

Good point. If I got half my face shot off by a shotgun, but still lived, I guess that's only a cosmetic injury.

 

[twistedtree]

As to the tide: yes, spring tide range at Seattle can reach 17'. With a new moon, the morning range last Thursday was just about 13 feet.


The dolphins are designed to be struck by the hull and not the superstructure (note the black stripe at the car deck line). They are even padded, as you can see here, against the minor bumping in a routine docking, but the assumption seems to be that any impact will be on the correct side. (click to expand)

I've also wondered about the defined crease where the superstructure caved in, and how that fits with the vertical pilings that make up the dolphins. It sure looks like there was some protruding superstructure on the dolphin. I did read in one of the reports that the dophins are capped with concrete in the areas that are not expected to make contact with the ships. Could that dolphin have been capped on the back side, and been de-capped by the impact? That would explain the crease and how the ship got smashed in beyond the hull below it. Thoughts? Anyone familiar with the construction of those dolphins?

 

[garbler]

I looked at your photos and I see these are steel piles with welded collars and caps but not really sloped or battered maybe cause they are poured in place piles. I can’t tell what the ferry or dolphin fendering looks like but if Washington DOT can’t figure it out who can. I worked with State of Maine and NC Ferry Services and there were always a few problems with some ferry slips, i.e., older ferries and design and newer different designs coming on line. Just maybe this ferry was a bit different or just a mechanical/operator failure. A ferry slip is typically laid out with entry dolphins to help a vessel in poor conditions make contact and much like a funnel straighten out for ramp entry. Sloped or battered dolphins usually prevent the hull rim or rub rails from allowing superstructure entanglement. Vertical steel piling as shown in your photos normally have heavy fendering which typically keeps the hull off. I can’t see this in your photos. As I said before I’m spitballing cause I really don’t have enough details but ripping a wing deck off is just odd.

Rick

 

[AlaskaProf]

I looked at your photos and I see these are steel piles with welded collars and caps but not really sloped or battered maybe cause they are poured in place piles. ... Sloped or battered dolphins usually prevent the hull rim or rub rails from allowing superstructure entanglement. Vertical steel piling as shown in your photos normally have heavy fendering which typically keeps the hull off.

Rick

Rick, your analysis is basically correct, but WSDOT (we in the know call it "Wizzdot) simply does it differently. The picture below is from a recent construction project at another location, but I think it shows the extensive use of rubber fenders and shock absorbing structure.


The big departure from your understanding is that they build the structure vertically because they specifically want it to engage the vessel exactly at the heavy rub-rail at the level of the lower car deck...and they do often.


The inner structure, or "wingwall" is even more sophisticated in that the supporting pilings suspend the big fender structure without securing it to the bottom so it swings back a bit at impact.


None of this explains what the point-of-contact was which put the (diagonal !?) divot in the superstructure, but I suspect if we could find a picture of the SW corner of the dolphin, there would be a revealing white paint swatch.

 

[twistedtree]

I found an AIS site that's not behind a paywall that shows the track. MyShipTracking.com It's a bit tricky to follow since the cursor picks up whatever track point is closest. I think this messed up the Fox news report that said the ferry had slowed to 4kts, but then sped up. I don't think that's the case, and that Fox was mistaking the speed of the revised approach to the dock as the speed prior to the crash. You need to look at the times for each track point to be sure you are looking at the right ones.



The app only records track points when the speed or course changes, so as best I can tell, the speed and course were unchanged from shortly after departure (07:04 to be exact), right until they hit the dolphin, then an abrupt course change, slowing to 0kts, then reversing away from shore. They hit at 13.4 kts and bounced off at 12.4 kts at 07:13:51.

 

[twistedtree]

Rick, your analysis is basically correct, but WSDOT (we in the know call it "Wizzdot) simply does it differently. The picture below is from a recent construction project at another location, but I think it shows the extensive use of rubber fenders and shock absorbing structure.


The big departure from your understanding is that they build the structure vertically because they specifically want it to engage the vessel exactly at the heavy rub-rail at the level of the lower car deck...and they do often.


The inner structure, or "wingwall" is even more sophisticated in that the supporting pilings suspend the big fender structure without securing it to the bottom so it swings back a bit at impact.


None of this explains what the point-of-contact was which put the (diagonal !?) divot in the superstructure, but I suspect if we could find a picture of the SW corner of the dolphin, there would be a revealing white paint swatch.

I saw a picture that looked like the tops of the piles are right where the crease is located. So I'm thinking we just aren't seeing all the 3d perspective in the pictures, and that it's overhanging structure that got smashed, not structure that was inboard of the rub line. Would that make sense? I don't recall how vertical or flared the boat ends are.

 

[koliver]

The available photos show the white paint from the ship transferred to the most damaged piling of the dolphin. That single piling is bent over from quite low down, allowing the top, which has been deflected from the vertical at a sharp angle, to contact the superstructure of the ferry, and doing most, if not all of the damage to the ferry.
That photo, from the first post, also shows the ladder on the back side of the Dolphin. That ladder can also be seen on the Google Maps screenshot, so the ferry missed the padded front of the Dolphin completely, hitting and bending the piling on the back corner, one away from the ladder.

 

[garbler]

Rick, your analysis is basically correct, but WSDOT (we in the know call it "Wizzdot) simply does it differently. The picture below is from a recent construction project at another location, but I think it shows the extensive use of rubber fenders and shock absorbing structure.


The big departure from your understanding is that they build the structure vertically because they specifically want it to engage the vessel exactly at the heavy rub-rail at the level of the lower car deck...and they do often.


The inner structure, or "wingwall" is even more sophisticated in that the supporting pilings suspend the big fender structure without securing it to the bottom so it swings back a bit at impact.


None of this explains what the point-of-contact was which put the (diagonal !?) divot in the superstructure, but I suspect if we could find a picture of the SW corner of the dolphin, there would be a revealing white paint swatch.

Your analysis makes sense to me and the photo you attached is quite revealing in terms of dolphin construction, layout and especially fendering. Ferry systems are always a compromise as the old boats are decom’d and new and improved designs come on line. So tweaking terminals to fit under thin budgets is an ongoing problem.

Thanks
Rick

 

[AlaskaProf]

..and that it's overhanging structure that got smashed, not structure that was inboard of the rub line. Would that make sense? I don't recall how vertical or flared the boat ends are.

There is no overhang. That stove-in area, known colloquially as "the picklefork" (actually, it is half the picklefork) conforms to the shape of the rubrail, actually sits a couple feet from the wingwall when normally at the dock. that's part of the puzzle.

 

[magna 6882]

One of the folks on the ferry a couple cars back during the collision said they saw concrete and concrete dust. My thought is there must have been a concrete pile cap on the pilings and the port pickelfork made contact with the pile cap once the pile was compromised. The concrete likely either fell into the ferry or into the water. They have been dealing with staff shortages so perhaps the captain had to take a leak with no one at the helm.

 

[utclmjmper]

Doesn't seem reasonable that a helmsman would leave the helm with no operator during the docking phase of a trip,, that would be like a pilot leaving the controls unmanned during the landing phase of a flight..>>>Dan (33 year commercial pilot.)

 

[Portage_Bay]

One of the folks on the ferry a couple cars back during the collision said they saw concrete and concrete dust. My thought is there must have been a concrete pile cap on the pilings and the port pickelfork made contact with the pile cap once the pile was compromised. The concrete likely either fell into the ferry or into the water. They have been dealing with staff shortages so perhaps the captain had to take a leak with no one at the helm.

The ferries are inspected vessels. They must have a certificate of inspection issued by the coast guard. They cannot and will not sail with fewer crew than the COI requires. Something else happened other than the captain needing to go potty.

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[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I love how the coast guard referred to it as being "only cosmetic damage". I guess if it's not sinking, it's only cosmetic.

It'll buff out!!! LOL

 

[AlaskaProf]

and that it's overhanging structure that got smashed, not structure that was inboard of the rub line. Would that make sense? I don't recall how vertical or flared the boat ends are.

So:

 

[backinblue]

Staff shortages have decreased the number of trips, but I don't think they would be allowed to sail with less than required crew.

 

[twistedtree]

There is no overhang. That stove-in area, known colloquially as "the picklefork" (actually, it is half the picklefork) conforms to the shape of the rubrail, actually sits a couple feet from the wingwall when normally at the dock. that's part of the puzzle.

Got it, thanks.

 

[twistedtree]

It’s a very short trip they were on, assuming the recorded AIS data is correct. 07:04 when they came onto course and speed after departure, then 07:13:51 when they struck the dolphin. So only a 10 minute run. I think that rules out someone falling asleep, or makes it very unlikely.

Does anyone know for certain if two people are required in the wheelhouse? I would expect there are, but don’t know for certain.

 

[Portage_Bay]

It’s a very short trip they were on, assuming the recorded AIS data is correct. 07:04 when they came onto course and speed after departure, then 07:13:51 when they struck the dolphin. So only a 10 minute run. I think that rules out someone falling asleep, or makes it very unlikely.

Does anyone know for certain if two people are required in the wheelhouse? I would expect there are, but don’t know for certain.

I don't know if the COI would state that. It is common practice on vessels of that size to have a licensed officer and AB on the bridge with the AB doing the steering. Though that close to a landing the officer should be at the helm.

There was a comment above, not sure if it was you, that the ferry may have hit the dolphin at 13 kts. I have been onboard for one grounding on hard rocks at 8.5 kts. The sudden stop was dramatic. People and equipment were thrown about. There have been "hard landings" with passenger boats elsewhere that resulted in passenger injuries from being thrown about. So I'm thinking the ferry hit the dolphin and a much slower speed.

I will be interested to learn what the CG and NTSB findings are when they are published. I suspect the person at the helm will be found at fault. The vid of the ferry backing away from the allision and heading into the slip shows nor control problems at that time.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Does anyone know for certain if two people are required in the wheelhouse? I would expect there are, but don’t know for certain.

I know from actual conversation that the Second Mate supervises the loading of the car decks. Seems to imply a First located on the bridge(s).

 

[garbler]

Portage I’m not 100% sure on this because I don’t know how the USCG classes this vessel. But my guess is she is a Sub-Chapter H and if so the I don’t think a second officer is necessary on the bridge especially on short duration runs of this type. The USCG is actually very strict about allowing anybody on the bridge not directly necessary for navigation of vessel. Getting caught with family, kids or passengers in the wheelhouse can get your license nicked if the wrong guy catches you. This class also calls for a dedicated Chief Engineer in the engine room and not a multi-task engineer.

Rick

 

[AlaskaProf]

The USCG is actually very strict about allowing anybody on the bridge not directly necessary for navigation of vessel. Getting caught with family, kids or passengers in the wheelhouse can get your license nicked if the wrong guy catches you.

Rick

Ahh! Another classic WSF story .

 

[Portage_Bay]

Portage I’m not 100% sure on this because I don’t know how the USCG classes this vessel. But my guess is she is a Sub-Chapter H and if so the I don’t think a second officer is necessary on the bridge especially on short duration runs of this type. The USCG is actually very strict about allowing anybody on the bridge not directly necessary for navigation of vessel. Getting caught with family, kids or passengers in the wheelhouse can get your license nicked if the wrong guy catches you. This class also calls for a dedicated Chief Engineer in the engine room and not a multi-task engineer.



Rick

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. In response to twistedtree's question about two persons being required on the bridge I said that I didn't know if the COI requires a 2nd person on the bridge. But that it is common practice to have an AB on watch with the licensed officer. Not required.

I am aware of the restrictions on persons not necessary for navigation. An AB when working under the supervision of the watch officer is allowed.





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[twistedtree]

There was a comment above, not sure if it was you, that the ferry may have hit the dolphin at 13 kts. I have been onboard for one grounding on hard rocks at 8.5 kts. The sudden stop was dramatic. People and equipment were thrown about. There have been "hard landings" with passenger boats elsewhere that resulted in passenger injuries from being thrown about. So I'm thinking the ferry hit the dolphin and a much slower speed.

Yes, it was me, however the boat didn't come to a full stop. After the strike it was going 12.4 kts as I recall, so it only lost 1 kt in the strike. I suspect that's consistent with what the passengers felt.

 

[BruceK]

...They have been dealing with staff shortages so perhaps the captain had to take a leak with no one at the helm.

If so,best course was to pee on the floor. Probably did afterwards anyway.

 

[garbler]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. In response to twistedtree's question about two persons being required on the bridge I said that I didn't know if the COI requires a 2nd person on the bridge. But that it is common practice to have an AB on watch with the licensed officer. Not required.

I am aware of the restrictions on persons not necessary for navigation. An AB when working under the supervision of the watch officer is allowed.





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I understood you loud and clear so guessing I worded my response inappropriately. Either way I think we are on the same page

Rick

 

[Ken E.]

The ferry's captain has resigned according to seattletimes.com. I'm sure Seattle TV will be covering it tonight.

 

[garbler]

That is unfortunate unless there is a back story. The USN has a ‘ body bag ‘ mentality. They train an officer through the academy then through hundreds of qualification stages and ranks which costs millions of dollars and one accident and they wash him/her out. No second chance. It’s a monumental waste since every mariner learns the most by their mistakes

Rick

 

[WillieJ]

Friend is a retired Washington State Ferries chief engineer. His son is now a chief. (There is a chief on each boat) His initial theory is a controls issue and the captain decided to take the the dolphin rather than the ramp and apron as it would cause less total damage. His theory is subject to revision as more facts emerge. The resignation of the captain adds another dimension to the speculation.

 

[twistedtree]

Friend is a retired Washington State Ferries chief engineer. His son is now a chief. (There is a chief on each boat) His initial theory is a controls issue and the captain decided to take the the dolphin rather than the ramp and apron as it would cause less total damage. His theory is subject to revision as more facts emerge. The resignation of the captain adds another dimension to the speculation.

The AIS track doesn't support this, I'm afraid. I'd love to believe it was a "save" of some sort, but everything says exactly the opposite.


The track shows no course or speed change from the time the ship got on course after departure, right up until they hit the dolphin. If there had been some change from a course to the dock changing to a course to the dolphin, then it might make sense. But there was none.


Also, after the strike and induced course change, the ship made a steady slow from the ricochet speed of 12.4kts to stand still, then in reverse away from the beach. Then backing up and re-approaching the dock. That shows full control of the ship.


And if something had malfunctioned, or the captain made some sort of heroic save, you can be sure he/she would have been saying that. Instead, they quietly resigned.


Somebody f'd up really bad. It's a shame to see a carrier ruined, but it happens.