Washington State Boat Taxes Could Double

[FF]

"What would happen with no minimum wage? Those who could least afford to be taken advantage of would be. Those who hadn't yet developed skills or received training wouldn't make enough to have housing."

With no minimum wage employers would be more willing to take a risk on more entry level employees that might be able to develop the skills required to be more productive, and advance to higher wages.
Well paid productive employees make more profits for the employer.


"For students under 18 perhaps make it less if people wish. We're not talking to support a family. We're talking one person wanting to live alone in a small apartment and working 40 hours a week."

Entry level wages were never viewed as able to support an individual or a small family.

If someone is unable to learn enough over time to advance , the solution is simple , combine incomes with someone , or simply work longer hours.

Sure no one wants to be a 60 year old bus boy , but a job is a job, a living is a living and for some that is the best they can do. Pride in collecting shopping carts ??, yes , if done well.

 

[slowgoesit]

Gentle reminder. The OP posted about Washington State taxes possibly doubling, and it was noted later on that the bill was killed.

Discussions of minimum wage may want to start another thread instead of hijacking this one!

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I will point out that Rybovich pays all employees at least $15/hr. This even includes the Busser in their cafe and the counter clerk in the ship store.

I doubt this is out of altruism, for their urban location, with its high cost of living, higher property taxes and with so much nearby competition, this is a necessity, no one could afford to live close enough to the yard unless they made that wage. That's an example of the free market in action.

Urban, high cost of living areas are tough for the marine industry for this reason, you need to pay people a high enough wage to be able to live within commuting distance. It's one of the reasons labor rates are so high in the NE, SoCal and Seattle areas. But if you don't pay them, you don't keep them, a min wage doesn't enter into it, at least not in this business.

 

[BandB]

I doubt this is out of altruism, for their urban location, with its high cost of living, higher property taxes and with so much nearby competition, this is a necessity, no one could afford to live close enough to the yard unless they made that wage. That's an example of the free market in action.

Urban, high cost of living areas are tough for the marine industry for this reason, you need to pay people a high enough wage to be able to live within commuting distance. It's one of the reasons labor rates are so high in the NE, SoCal and Seattle areas. But if you don't pay them, you don't keep them, a min wage doesn't enter into it, at least not in this business.

And I've never said all locations should be moved to $15 starting on May 1, but I do see it as a worthy goal and more easily achieved than people often believe. They said we couldn't do it in manufacturing and we did. Interestingly, we had production employees on piece rate who weren't making it when we took over so we were supplementing the rate at that time which was $12, then $13 and has continued up. Well, it forced us to do a better job on training and retraining existing employees. We were doing a good job on new employees but hadn't been on existing. Suddenly the problem of employees not meriting what they were being paid was a management problem, not an employee problem.

Does everyone make it? No. Some are poor hires in the wrong jobs. Can't put someone on a retail floor with no people skills or someone as a mechanic trainee with no aptitude toward mechanics. And someone with no work ethic can't be forced to be a good employee, but most can do a good job if in the right job.

 

[markpierce]

after graduating from college and entering a professional accounting job at $5 an hour, I shared a home with two other guys, not expecting to live singly in a home until "working up the ladder."

 

[backinblue]

Too bad for you Mark. Should have been born today where it's your right to be provided a home rather than having to work hard for one.

 

[backinblue]

Another good article on proposed boat taxes and how they don't work. To one of my earlier points, a reduction in taxes, if done right, can increase revenue.

https://info.boattest.com/canadian-luxury-tax-on-boats-can-kill-an-industry-what-you-can-do?

 

[SteveK]

Another good article on proposed boat taxes and how they don't work. To one of my earlier points, a reduction in taxes, if done right, can increase revenue.

https://info.boattest.com/canadian-luxury-tax-on-boats-can-kill-an-industry-what-you-can-do?

1991? I thought old history has been erased.
It is an election budget, will never pass.

 

[backinblue]

What's that saying? Those who don't learn from history are forced to repeat it?

 

[Bryant]

Tax

I respect your view, but will just respond to this one example. If everyone in the clothing business raised to $15 an hour then she'd be on the same footing competitively she is now and, yes, prices would go up slightly. That's much different than her trying to raise while others don't.

Now, I might also point out that in a competitive market, one might raise even if competition doesn't and find that by being able to select the best hires and pay well, they get more productivity, more loyalty, less turnover and increase revenues and profits. That was our experience with clothing stores.

All you have to do to understand why your reasoning is wrong is to look at the cost of a subway franchise and the average annual income to a subway owner, after all costs. Every business is different but this model tells The whole story. An unreasonable minimum wage is why you see kiosks in almost all fast food restaurants and self pay booths in grocery stores and retailers. It’s a utopian idea that sounds great but has negative unintended consequences. Unreasonable labor cost is why almost all manufacturing has left our country. Same reason that raising taxes hurts business and lowers revenue.

 

[Scooby5959]

Could not of said it better myself

All you have to do to understand why your reasoning is wrong is to look at the cost of a subway franchise and the average annual income to a subway owner, after all costs. Every business is different but this model tells The whole story. An unreasonable minimum wage is why you see kiosks in almost all fast food restaurants and self pay booths in grocery stores and retailers. It’s a utopian idea that sounds great but has negative unintended consequences. Unreasonable labor cost is why almost all manufacturing has left our country. Same reason that raising taxes hurts business and lowers revenue.

I was born and raised in Michigan a suburb of Detroit I saw firsthand what this does . when I left Michigan Unemployment was 21% the joke was last one out turn off the lights, you can buy a house in the Detroit area today ,40 years later for next to nothing nobody’s willing to buy it and pay the property taxes ,manufacturing left the state in droves ,You might ask her why she lives in Florida I have a pretty good idea

 

[Scooby5959]

I’ve been calling them lying hypocrites for years

 

[SteveK]

My thoughts. The middle class was gaining ground in the 1st world. Sure there are millionaires and billionaires but too many middle class were achieving an income more than expenses and were getting ahead. The middle class started to think for themselves instead of follow the leader. Too many people in the comfort zone neutralizes the filthy rich.
Think Feudal system, it is making a come back.

 

[Benthic2]

.... Same reason that raising taxes hurts business and lowers revenue....

Are you opposed to all taxes or just the Washington Boat tax ? We have the largests national debt we have ever had. It has to be paid by someone. Ultimately all gov't expenses are paid for by citizens. You can apportion it to different groups in different ways, but at the end of the day, the gov't needs to take in more money. You could tax everyone, but people near the poverty line will be hurt. If you tax them, more of them will need food stamps, housing assistance and so on, so while that raises gov't revenue it also raises gov't expenses so it doesn't really solve the problem. So how do you increase tax revenue without impacting people at the poverty level ?? Well....you tax things that people at a higher income level have....like boats, planes, vacation homes etc.

The Fed Gov't spends about $350 Billion annually in interest payments on its debt. That's about $1000 per person.....and that's just on interest. It's like paying the minimum due on your credit card balance.....we can't leave that debt to our children. The money was borrowed on our watch, it should be repaid on our watch.

 

[Scooby5959]

I lived in Vancouver Washington for years all my boats live in Oregon ,everybody keeps their boat in Oregon that’s where all the mortgage is available ,why because Oregon has no sales tax . barely any Marinas on the Washington side ,thousands and thousands of people keep their boats in Oregon ,Washington will tell you if you live in Washington you still have to register your boat in Washington even if you keep it in Oregon, I got news for them wherever the boat Lives is where you register it ,but they will bully you,I grew tired of the game ,one of the main reasons my boat now lives on a trailer ,I can vote with my feet,And do,I moved to Texas years ago to escape what was going on in Michigan ,never went back

 

[Benthic2]

... too many middle class were achieving an income more than expenses and were getting ahead.....

The middle class has been shrinking for a long time. Take a look at this graph:

 

[SteveK]

The middle class has been shrinking for a long time. Take a look at this graph:

Thanks for the visual. Yes I have seen it since early 80's

 

[Scooby5959]

If my wife wasn’t as old as she is , I would be in Alaska enjoying my boat

 

[ksanders]

Are you opposed to all taxes or just the Washington Boat tax ? We have the largests national debt we have ever had. It has to be paid by someone. Ultimately all gov't expenses are paid for by citizens. You can apportion it to different groups in different ways, but at the end of the day, the gov't needs to take in more money. You could tax everyone, but people near the poverty line will be hurt. If you tax them, more of them will need food stamps, housing assistance and so on, so while that raises gov't revenue it also raises gov't expenses so it doesn't really solve the problem. So how do you increase tax revenue without impacting people at the poverty level ?? Well....you tax things that people at a higher income level have....like boats, planes, vacation homes etc.

The Fed Gov't spends about $350 Billion annually in interest payments on its debt. That's about $1000 per person.....and that's just on interest. It's like paying the minimum due on your credit card balance.....we can't leave that debt to our children. The money was borrowed on our watch, it should be repaid on our watch.

Well...

40% of all income tax filers pay zero federal income tax.

How about we make it so everyone has some skin in the game so they (the people) realize that government services are not free.

I for one am sick and tired of five figure tax bills while the majority of Americans pay nothing or next to nothing for the services we all enjoy.

Spend less and or tax everyone is my answer.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well...

40% of all income tax filers pay zero federal income tax.

How about we make it so everyone has some skin in the game so they (the people) realize that government services are not free.

I for one am sick and tired of five figure tax bills while the majority of Americans pay nothing or next to nothing for the services we all enjoy.

Spend less and or tax everyone is my answer.

Flat tax of 10% for everyone.

 

[SteveK]

Flat tax of 10% for everyone.

That would put a lot of government workers out of a job.

 

[Peter B]

That would put a lot of government workers out of a job.

I don't think there really is a need to explain why this thread is now closed. Everyone seems to have forgotten the no politics rule, which rides level with the no religion and be nice rules, ok..?