Washington State Boat Taxes Could Double

[hollywood8118]

Boating is a privilege not a right.

Utter blasphemy!
Hollywood

 

[Marco Flamingo]

This thread makes me so glad that I'm filthy rich. Increased taxes so that the little people can enjoy free aspirin? Okay, I guess. Increase the tax on my private jet fuel? Okay, I guess. But a yacht tax? Heavens? Will I need to down size my yacht? Wahhhhh!

Anybody ever been to Haiti? I count my blessings everyday.

 

[magna 6882]

The thing that gets me is taxing boaters for highway work and repairs but doing nothing for our waterways but put more restrictions and eliminating boat ramps.

 

[backinblue]

The spending faucet is wide open. The taxing has not even begun yet. Brace yourself!

 

[slowgoesit]

Thread Warning!

THREAD WARNING!

Folks, please stick to the intent of the original post without bringing up voting, political agendas, specific politicians, or political parties. Please limit your discussions to how the proposed legislation will, or may affect your boat usage or impact your navigation area.


If you have questions about our forum rules you can review those here: https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Folks, please stick to the intent of the original post without bringing up voting, political agendas, specific politicians, or political parties. Please limit your discussions to how the proposed legislation will, or may affect your boat usage or impact your navigation area.

I think that may be impossible given today's political climate. Let's say we are discussing whether the earth is flat. I would call that a boating topic. But it turns out that some will believe that the earth is flat simply because their political leader tells them that it is flat. Those who disagree and believe that the earth is round can then be attacked as having political agendas and attacking specific politicians and political parties.

It turns out that all rational thought can be attacked as political. Don't believe me? Well that's because of your political beliefs. See how easy that is?

 

[JLD]

I would agree that we can have a discussion of taxes WITHOUT it becoming political. Bringing politics into the discussion has nothing to do with the political climate, it is a matter of folks not having the self control over their own posts.

Jim

 

[Baker]

I think that may be impossible given today's political climate. Let's say we are discussing whether the earth is flat. I would call that a boating topic. But it turns out that some will believe that the earth is flat simply because their political leader tells them that it is flat. Those who disagree and believe that the earth is round can then be attacked as having political agendas and attacking specific politicians and political parties.

It turns out that all rational thought can be attacked as political. Don't believe me? Well that's because of your political beliefs. See how easy that is?

Do you see the irony of your post?

 

[backinblue]

So if the current congress decides that boating is part of infrastructure and that all recreational boats that are not electric-powered by 2030 will not be allowed to operate in U.S. waters, then that's something we can't discuss? Or maybe there instead will be a $5 fed tax per gallon on all marine fuel to push boaters to electric. Crazier things have been suggested.

 

[JLD]

I think the moderator is telling us we can discuss this but without bringing the Republican/Democrat insults that often follow.

There is a difference between discussing the issues and the politics.
Jim

 

[SteveK]

Taxes. Every year I have someone complaining about an expected increase in property tax because of the ever increasing real estate values.
Every year I remind them that the value of the property is only used to establish your pro rata share of the taxes. They, you know who they are, put together a budget of expenses and then divide that total pro rata to your property.
If all property values were to drop 50% overnight, your share would still be the same $$$
All taxation assessments are done this way. Of course bias enters the picture and if those bureaucrats do not boat they are more inclined to lay a bigger burden upon those that do.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good discussion so far. We have increased the amount in our fuel account as fuel is starting to climb due to additional taxes. Also the oil infrastructure is taking a hugh hit right now.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Are there new fuel taxes in Washington or Canada? Because for the rest of North America, fuel costs are increasing for pretty much one reason. Production is still severely behind the demand curve.

 

[SteveK]

Are there new fuel taxes in Washington or Canada? Because for the rest of North America, fuel costs are increasing for pretty much one reason. Production is still severely behind the demand curve.

Yes we have additional fuel tax for something called carbon tax. It is supposed to be revenue neutral. They collect it from you at the pumps and then give it back to you in reduced other tax.

 

[firehoser75]

Yes we have additional fuel tax for something called carbon tax. It is supposed to be revenue neutral. They collect it from you at the pumps and then give it back to you in reduced other tax.

Steve,
That almost sounds like the "temporary tax" that was put into place (here in Canada) to fund the First World War. If memory serves me correctly (and no I am not thatttttt old) it was called "Income Tax".
What tax did they reduce to offset the Carbon tax??? Don't get me started on this "move to electric" thing.

Obviously I am not affected by the Washington excise tax, but I am with those who feel that the proposed increase is unfair.

 

[SteveK]

Steve,
That almost sounds like the "temporary tax" that was put into place (here in Canada) to fund the First World War. If memory serves me correctly (and no I am not thatttttt old) it was called "Income Tax".
What tax did they reduce to offset the Carbon tax??? Don't get me started on this "move to electric" thing.

Obviously I am not affected by the Washington excise tax, but I am with those who feel that the proposed increase is unfair.

The income tax of course as long as you do not make too much and fail to qualify. Best I can tell it is a Robin Hood tax. There is no mention of less costs to administer.
Tom, your memory serves you well. Income tax is temporary and we will no longer pay it when there is no more income.

 

[koliver]

Steve,
That almost sounds like the "temporary tax" that was put into place (here in Canada) to fund the First World War. If memory serves me correctly (and no I am not thatttttt old) it was called "Income Tax".
What tax did they reduce to offset the Carbon tax??? Don't get me started on this "move to electric" thing.

Obviously I am not affected by the Washington excise tax, but I am with those who feel that the proposed increase is unfair.

In a small way we in SW BC are affected.
In 1983, Easter weekend, I moved moorage of my 30' sailboat to Point Roberts Marina. It was shiny and new, the border was quick and friendly and its rates were competitive with Sidney BC, where I had kept that boat since new, in 1977. I stayed 2 years. In that time there was no threat of a WA state tax on the property value of my boat.
Now, I wouldn't dream of mooring in Point Roberts, after reading this and other threads that detail all the extra burdens those mooring for more than 30 days in Wa must deal with.
Here in BC the price of moorage reflects basic economics, based mainly on supply v demand. When a decent sized marina is no longer part of our supply, or is affected by Wa pricing increases, as the Point Roberts experiment has turned out, our prices rise along with that increase in demand.

 

[SteveK]

In a small way we in SW BC are affected.
In 1983, Easter weekend, I moved moorage of my 30' sailboat to Point Roberts Marina. It was shiny and new, the border was quick and friendly and its rates were competitive with Sidney BC, where I had kept that boat since new, in 1977. I stayed 2 years. In that time there was no threat of a WA state tax on the property value of my boat.
Now, I wouldn't dream of mooring in Point Roberts, after reading this and other threads that detail all the extra burdens those mooring for more than 30 days in Wa must deal with.
Here in BC the price of moorage reflects basic economics, based mainly on supply v demand. When a decent sized marina is no longer part of our supply, or is affected by Wa pricing increases, as the Point Roberts experiment has turned out, our prices rise along with that increase in demand.

Point Roberts, a land island stolen by poor survey 100 years ago.

My last boat spent about 4 years there. Great place and people, it served us well. When I decided to sell I was quickly warned to get it out of the US as WA had some kind of tax if a Canadian boat was sold in WA. Yes, this WA tax may affect Canadian flagged boats.

 

[backinblue]

Keep in mind they are now talking about not just taxing income, but taxing wealth. So you could be retired with zero income other than what you take from 401K etc. But even if you had zero taxable income, they are now talking about taxing wealth. So you could have a boat and house that are completely paid for zero income, but because the value of those assets makes you a millionaire, you need to pay your "fair share". Those are magical words that almost nobody questions. Who would argue that everyone shouldn't pay what's fair? Watch your wallet friends!

 

[BandB]

One word of caution, hoping to provide some comfort. The vast majority of new taxes, of tax increases, of taxes in general that get discussed, get proposed, get put in bills even, never go into law. Doesn't mean you don't have to worry about them. Just means in most cases it never materializes.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

GOOD NEWS

Dear RBAW Members and E-Lert subscribers,
We have good news to report!* Today in the Senate Transportation Committee, legislators considering Senate Bill 5483, a bill containing new revenues to pay for a transportation investment package, unanimously adopted an amendment to remove the provisions from the bill that would have doubled the Watercraft Excise Tax!*
This is a tribute to all of YOU and the power of grass-roots advocacy and recreational boaters making their voice heard.* Using the Action Alert put together by the Recreational Boating Association of Washington (RBAW) and the Northwest Marine Trade Association (NMTA), more than 5,000 of you sent over 17,000 messages to lawmakers throughout Washington State, urging removal of a doubling of this tax.**
This change in Senate Bill 5483 would not have been possible without the cooperation of key legislators who worked with RBAW and NMTA.*

Senate Transportation Chair Steve Hobbs (D-Lake Stevens/44th Dist.) offered the successful amendment to remove the Watercraft Excise Tax provisions, supported by his Vice-Chair Sen. Rebecca Saldana (D-Seattle/37th Dist.) and Transportation Committee Ranking Member Sen. Curtis King (R-Yakima/14th Dist.)

Additionally, Sen. Liz Lovelett (D-Anacortes/40th Dist.), whose district is a haven for recreational boating, had an amendment ready to remove the Watercraft Excise Tax provisions if Chair Hobbs had not offered his

If you have a moment to send these legislators a short thank-you note, indicating we as recreational boaters do understand the need to invest in transportation, but had a real concern with the Watercraft Excise Tax provisions, and truly thank them for their actions, that is always welcome.*
Steve.Hobbs@leg.wa.gov
Rebecca.Saldana@leg.wa.gov
Curtis.King@leg.wa.gov
Liz.Lovelett@leg.wa.gov*

In the meantime, RBAW will stay vigilant on this issue as Senate Bill 5483 continues to move through the process during these last two weeks of the Session.*

In closing, the voice of our affiliated yacht clubs and our individual members is better together - thank you for your willingness to take action.* Together, we are the Recreational Boating Association of Washington.

Please email Andrea Pierantozzi, RBAW VP of Administration or Doug Levy, RBAW Lobbyist if questions.

Thank you,
RBAW

 

[twistedtree]

Darn, nothing more to get hysterical about.


But on the subject of WA taxes and how it impacts boater's decisions, I'll toss out a few.


First, I live in NH for a long time where there is no income tax and no sales tax. But I still paid a lot in taxes. Just different checks for different things. Now I live in "Taxachussets". We have income tax, sales tax, boat and car excise taxes, etc. All told I probably pay about the same, adjusting for differences in real estate property value. The point is that although the tax burden does vary from state to state, it's not a great as one might think. And if it's super low, public services like education typically suffer.


When I look at WA from the perspective of a resident, the big sales tax is offset by no income tax. And lots of people will argue that it's better to tax consumption than to tax earnings.


But from the perspective of a non-resident, as I am, it's tough as a boater. In fact, I and hundreds of other non-residents (and some residents) lean towards keeping out boats in BC, and spending our boat bucks there rather than in WA. Why? It's 90% because of the ~10% sales/use tax. The annual excise tax has an impact too, but not as much. And for a non-resident, the taxes are not offset by no income tax.


I'm 100% convinced that WA would experience a boom in the marine economy, and a boom in tax receipts if they capped the use tax as other coastal states have done. I think hundreds of checks, including one from me would show up at the capital the next day paying a capped use tax. And hundreds of boats would be repatriated to WA from Canada. Yes, it's less than the full 10%. But the nature of boats, especially higher value boats, is that they are mobile. So instead of getting a capped tax, the state gets zero tax. Which is better? Something less than 10%, or zero? It's looked at by many as a discount in taxes for boaters, and that doesn't go over well publically. But it's really opening up a new tax revenue stream.

 

[magna 6882]

One thing i have always wondered and am not smart enough is when is the end? Since taxes combined overall for everyone take some percentage of income and has increased annually since the beginning of time what is the mathematical date that taxes hit 100 percent and can not be raised for eternity ? Seems like there should be a reasonable year that the numbers point to. Like i said i am not that smart but am also smart enough to know that my total annual tax will never start going down.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

One thing i have always wondered and am not smart enough is when is the end? Since taxes combined overall for everyone take some percentage of income and has increased annually since the beginning of time what is the mathematical date that taxes hit 100 percent and can not be raised for eternity ? Seems like there should be a reasonable year that the numbers point to. Like i said i am not that smart but am also smart enough to know that my total annual tax will never start going down.

Why not? It goes up and down for plenty of others...

 

[catalinajack]

Federal income tax rates have NOT increased steadily. In 1961, income for joint filers in excess of $400k was taxed at 91%. In 1964 the rate dropped to 71%. In 1965 it dropped to 70% but applied to income over $200k. In 1982, the highest marginal rate was 50% on incomes in excess of $85,600. In 2011 the rate was 35% on incomes of more than $388,350. For 2020, it was 35% on $414,701 to $622,050 and 37% on more than $622,050.

So,at least on the Federal level, income tax rates have fallen dramatically since 1961.

Question for you, magna 6882, using your postulate in reverse. Some economists and many politicians assert that decreasing taxes, especially on business, spurs economic expansion by freeing capital for further investment. Why not reduce business taxes to zero?

One thing i have always wondered and am not smart enough is when is the end? Since taxes combined overall for everyone take some percentage of income and has increased annually since the beginning of time what is the mathematical date that taxes hit 100 percent and can not be raised for eternity ? Seems like there should be a reasonable year that the numbers point to. Like i said i am not that smart but am also smart enough to know that my total annual tax will never start going down.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well I guess the letter writing campaign worked. Thank you for all those that have participated.

 

[Baker]

Good job Washington constituents!!!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well I guess its Canada's turn on new taxes. Higher taxes on yachts and boats valued over $250,000cd.

Good luck.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/budget-tax-1.5993593

 

[markpierce]

Not unusual the cuts in taxes increase government revenue.

 

[markpierce]

My federal taxes increased despite the drop in the tax rate because there are far fewer tax (income) deductibles such as the limit on state and local taxes's deductibility.