Washington State Boat Taxes Could Double

[backinblue]

The excise tax is a killer. Our neighboring state, Rhode Island has no boat taxes, sales tax or otherwise. For a very small state they also have one of the the largest percentages of coastline in the U.S. compared to their land area. They obviously see the value in boating as a draw to their state, their quality of life, tourism, etc. Many America Cup races have been held there. If it wasn't for Rhode Island's attraction to boaters, I'm sure CT taxes would be much higher. MD is a another small state with a similar outlook as Rhode Island. Politicians just can't grasp the concept that a cut in taxes can lead to an increase in revenue. At the risk of being flagged as a political post, I'll leave it there.

 

[kthoennes]

...If I didn't pay my bill in full the marina would toss me out....

Maybe I'm missing something -- it's a public mooring subject to excise tax on the slip holder, but a marina runs it? Or are you talking about a public (municipal/state?) marina? This all gets complicated I know. Even our marina here is ridiculously complicated. The surrounding land and jetty and marina waters (yacht basin) are under federal jurisdiction under the Army Corps of Engineers who built and operate the dam, who then allow the State to administer the marina area, and then the State in turn places it under the jurisdiction of Game Fish & Parks (state agency, who also administers the adjoining state park), and then GF&P issues a ten year lease to a private business to actually operate the recreational marina. It's a bureaucrat's (and lawyer's) dream.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I understand they are considering doubling the .005 excise tax. I payed $3750.00 last year.

We've got two different Wa Sate excise taxes being discussed on this thread. You were talking about the excise tax on the value of the boat, due annually at registration. The OPs original warning that tax could double. I was talking about the lease holder excise tax on moorages over state owned tide lands which covers the vast majority of marinas, the thread derailment.

Back to your earlier question about refusal to pay and who enforces. Refusal to pay means you would have an unregistered boat. It's a state law, so the state would be the primary enforcer. However I don't see a lot of state water cops. Some areas have local police forces on the water. Maybe similar to your vehicle? State registration required for vehicles. County and city cops can ask to see and issue fines for no current registration. For boats I think the main enforcement would be indirect. For example my marina enforces having proof of registration and insurance annually. I don't know if the CG would enforce. The last time I was boarded by the CG they asked to see all of the boat's documents. I have no idea what would have happened had the boat not been registered.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Maybe I'm missing something -- it's a public mooring subject to excise tax on the slip holder, but a marina runs it? Or are you talking about a public (municipal/state?) marina? This all gets complicated I know. Even our marina here is ridiculously complicated. The surrounding land and jetty and marina waters (yacht basin) are under federal jurisdiction under the Army Corps of Engineers who built and operate the dam, who then allow the State to administer the marina area, and then the State in turn places it under the jurisdiction of Game Fish & Parks (state agency, who also administers the adjoining state park), and then GF&P issues a ten year lease to a private business to actually operate the recreational marina. It's a bureaucrat's (and lawyer's) dream.

You're not missing anything. It's not clear up front. In Wa State the state owns most of the tidal lands. The marinas, publicly or privately owned and operated least the tidal lands the docks and slips cover. The state demands a lease holder excise tax. Whether it's directly listed on the moorage bill as Oak Harbor does or just part of the total moorage in the end the boat pays for it.

 

[DDW]

We pay a fairly steep amount of taxes already in Washington between the sales tax on everything, our ridiculous fuel taxes .

I love buying fuel in Washington. Current fuel price for my diesel truck at the pump is $2.95. In California, $3.85. In Canada, >6$.

 

[SteveD]

The numbers on fuel taxes by state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

Washington is high, but by no means the highest.

 

[backinblue]

I love buying fuel in Washington. Current fuel price for my diesel truck at the pump is $2.95. In California, $3.85. In Canada, >6$.

Saying that fuel is cheaper than CA isn't saying much since they are regularly the most expensive in the country.

 

[gsholz]

Re the comment above that WA does not have any water cops to enforce registration. Not so. Every single time I used to anchor an OR boat for a few days in the San Juan Islands I would get a nasty letter from the WA DOR a few months later. "Pay use tax now or show that you have paid WA use tax". I'd have to provide documentation that my home slip was in OR with moorage and service bills in OR. WA pays a percentage of the "recovered" taxes to private citizens that provide leads. I have seen small boats cruising the anchorages and taking pictures of out of state boats including my own. I'm pretty sure they are walking the docks too.

 

[Flyguy1967]

From one of my representatives in response to the NMTA sample email I sent yesterday:

Hi Brent,

Thanks for letting me know you oppose increasing the watercraft excise tax. This increase is being proposed in the Senate transportation package. It is not included in the House Transportation Budget we passed April 2nd.

Budget negotiations with the Senate are just beginning. I appreciate you reaching out and sharing your concerns.

Best,
Jess

Jessica Bateman
State Representative - 22nd LD
Olympia, Lacey, & Tumwater
Legislative Aide|Kasey.Schiewe@leg.wa.gov
Sign-up for my e-newsletter

I pay enough taxes (Federal Income, Real Property Tax, State Sales Tax, Tax on my business income (B&O), annual tax on the value of the assets used in my business, employer portion of taxes for social security and medicare, car tabs, annual boat registration, and I am certain I'm forgetting something). This is an easy cash grab and uses very little political capital and I'm thankful for those folks paying attention to these issues.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Re the comment above that WA does not have any water cops to enforce registration. Not so. Every single time I used to anchor an OR boat for a few days in the San Juan Islands I would get a nasty letter from the WA DOR a few months later. "Pay use tax now or show that you have paid WA use tax". I'd have to provide documentation that my home slip was in OR with moorage and service bills in OR. WA pays a percentage of the "recovered" taxes to private citizens that provide leads. I have seen small boats cruising the anchorages and taking pictures of out of state boats including my own. I'm pretty sure they are walking the docks too.

That's interesting. So someone is watching fairly closely. Because you were not directly approached by state or local water cops your experience suggests other agency personnel may be reporting what they see as suspected tax dodgers. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find local citizens reporting as well. That would impact any question by another poster regarding the idea of not paying the tax.

By the way I didn't say there aren't any water cops, I said "However I don't see a lot of state water cops. Some areas have local police forces on the water."

 

[magna 6882]

I went ahead and renewed for 2022 today thinking if they raise them i will be ahead a year at least.

 

[hollywood8118]

In Jefferson County Washington the sheriff's department walks the docks annually to check Washington state stickers, even if a boat is documented one still has to register with the state and pay the fees.
Hollywood

 

[Jimintheair3]

Not True

Re WA pays a percentage of the "recovered" taxes to private citizens that provide leads. I have seen small boats cruising the anchorages and taking pictures of out of state boats including my own. I'm pretty sure they are walking the docks too.

This is not true! I have always said, "If they would pay a Bounty, more would get caught!"

Roche Harbor custom's are the worst, now they are Home Land Security. Drill every out of state boat that comes through, "how long will you be in WA"?

What's your point? Then they give me the tax rules! I say, that's between me
and the WA Dept of Revenue. But I appreciate YOUR concern, have a nice day!

 

[Bryant]

Wa taxes

On the other hand, Washington State residents pay no income tax, and a sales tax that is in line with other states ~10%. Relative to New York and California, we are very under-taxed and what taxes we have are severely regressive.

Wa charges a County tax on the sale of a home. Never experienced that before and I've lived all over the country. When I lived there, boat tax was 8% and now they want to double it? Insane. Sales tax 10%, insane. Fl has no income tax either, 6-7% sales tax, reasonable property tax etc. No property tax on boats. Many other states can boast the same, some having extremely low sales tax on boats. Wa is going out of control with their punitive taxes. If you have to compare Wa to California and New York in order to appear reasonable, that pretty much says it all. Soon there will be an income tax. This is one of the many reasons we didn't retire back to Whidbey Island. And that's a shame because Wa is a beautiful state with incredible boating.
When will govts learn that punitive taxation hurts business and reduces tax revenue. Make Wa boater friendly in terms of taxes and business and tax revenue will increase. This current proposal will be very detrimental to the boating community in Wa.

 

[magna 6882]

When i went to the boat sunday i took note of the stickers. Seemed like 60-40. 60 percent had 2021 tages and 40 percent were still on 2020.

 

[backinblue]

Stop voting for the same people if you don't like their policies. Sure sounds like WA is becoming the new CA. Sad to hear that.

 

[w8n4sun]

Stop voting for the same people if you don't like their policies. Sure sounds like WA is becoming the new CA. Sad to hear that.

 

[twistedtree]

Wa charges a County tax on the sale of a home. Never experienced that before and I've lived all over the country. When I lived there, boat tax was 8% and now they want to double it? Insane. Sales tax 10%, insane. Fl has no income tax either, 6-7% sales tax, reasonable property tax etc. No property tax on boats. Many other states can boast the same, some having extremely low sales tax on boats. Wa is going out of control with their punitive taxes. If you have to compare Wa to California and New York in order to appear reasonable, that pretty much says it all. Soon there will be an income tax. This is one of the many reasons we didn't retire back to Whidbey Island. And that's a shame because Wa is a beautiful state with incredible boating.
When will govts learn that punitive taxation hurts business and reduces tax revenue. Make Wa boater friendly in terms of taxes and business and tax revenue will increase. This current proposal will be very detrimental to the boating community in Wa.

For clarity, it's not the one-time 8%-10% sales/use tax that is proposed to double. It's the annual 1/2 of one percent excise tax.

 

[JLD]

The excise tax is a killer. Our neighboring state, Rhode Island has no boat taxes, sales tax or otherwise. For a very small state they also have one of the the largest percentages of coastline in the U.S. compared to their land area. They obviously see the value in boating as a draw to their state, their quality of life, tourism, etc. Many America Cup races have been held there. If it wasn't for Rhode Island's attraction to boaters, I'm sure CT taxes would be much higher. MD is a another small state with a similar outlook as Rhode Island. Politicians just can't grasp the concept that a cut in taxes can lead to an increase in revenue. At the risk of being flagged as a political post, I'll leave it there.

Guess I don't understand the MD comment? While we don't pay an annual tax on boats, there is a 5% vessel excise tax to initially register the boat.

We are building our next home in Delaware. Interestingly, there is no sales tax or annual tax on boats. Not the reason we are moving here, but is nice. Had we been staying in MD (lived here for the past 30 years) I would have happily paid the sales tax to register a new boat as I love the Chesapeake Bay!

Jim

 

[CompuNerd]

I won't pay taxes on something I want for free. That's what freedom is all about.


(Brought to you by the Loosely-Aligned Coalition of People Who Just Don't Get It.)

 

[GFC]

I just read in today's paper the long list of things our wunnerful gubner wants to raise taxes on. There are 33 proposed increases that would raise $15.7 Billion dollars annually.

I've always heard that the party he represents (starts with a "D") has been known as the "tax and spend" party. Our gubner and our president are prime examples of this.

When will people learn that voting the same jerks in every year means we'll never get out of this rat hole.

 

[BandB]

For clarity, it's not the one-time 8%-10% sales/use tax that is proposed to double. It's the annual 1/2 of one percent excise tax.

And that is how crazy rumors get spread and everyone gets up in arms over the wrong thing.

As to the 1/2%, I'll leave that to the WA voters. I don't feel it's any of my business. I respect the concern of those in WA.

I looked up on one site and saw WA currently at #24 with overall tax burden. On another site, saw #27. The problem is that none of us are impacted the same by our state taxes. An excise tax on boats doesn't impact the majority of citizens. It's like FL and others bragging about no state income tax. However, take the elderly living on social security and that doesn't help them at all and a high sales tax or property tax may or utility and food costs or the lack of good public transit systems.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Many of my clients who purchase boats in WA already take them to Canada for refit work, and keep them there to avoid WA's tax, an increase will only drive more boat owners out of the state and into the arms of the Canadian yards and marinas. The net result is Washington's marine industry, and all who are employed by it, will suffer.

It seems counterproductive, but then again so much about politics is; boat owners are a source of revenue, and some states recognize this and do all they can to attract them and the businesses that support them, thereby bolstering the industry and employment, and state's bottom line. Florida is an ideal example, and they have no stare income tax. Average sales tax is 7%. Others simply see boat owners as the ones who have money to spare and thus a source of tax revenue.

The boat tax rules in WA are so complex, and potentially dire if you cross them even unintentionally, some of my clients hire attorneys to explain all the details, when purchasing or bringing boats there for work, so as to avoid running afoul of them.

I wrote an article about Seattle's Ballard neighborhood and its amazing marine industry a few years ago, and touched on this subject. https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/BALLARD-Marine-Industry.pdf

 

[hickleyboy]

I just read in today's paper the long list of things our wunnerful gubner wants to raise taxes on. There are 33 proposed increases that would raise $15.7 Billion dollars annually.

I've always heard that the party he represents (starts with a "D") has been known as the "tax and spend" party. Our gubner and our president are prime examples of this.

When will people learn that voting the same jerks in every year means we'll never get out of this rat hole.

This rant makes no sense to me. You call this a rat hole, but you choose to live in the rat hole. You choose to boat in the rat hole. Using a term like "gubner" does not help your argument, whatever it may be.

Washington excise tax on boating may be expensive, but you are not forced to boat in Washington waterways and you are not forced to keep your vessel in Washington. It is your choice to do so. Boating is a privilege not a right.

 

[BandB]

This rant makes no sense to me. You call this a rat hole, but you choose to live in the rat hole. You choose to boat in the rat hole. Using a term like "gubner" does not help your argument, whatever it may be.

Washington excise tax on boating may be expensive, but you are not forced to boat in Washington waterways and you are not forced to keep your vessel in Washington. It is your choice to do so. Boating is a privilege not a right.

I don't like GFC's rant, but I don't like yours either. Specifically one part of yours. That is the part about choosing to live somewhere. That's not as easy a choice as some like to make it. I hate hearing things like "If you don't like it here (referring to a country or state or city), just leave." Yes, that's an option, as is working to improve things. When I criticize the country or state, I'm hoping we can improve.

There's also the practical reality. Most people can't just pick up and move. We have investments of time and dollars where we live. In our case, we have employees we feel an obligation to. Many have families. Moving is expensive and a hardship. Many have boats in areas they're taxed highly, because that's where they live and can use it. So, yes, I think GFC politicized and in other ways lowered the plane on his rant, but your response is no answer.

We all live where we are for many reasons. And we don't move for many. We live in the US for one reason and one only. We were born here. Now, could we leave now? Of course. We've looked at all the places in the world we could live, but ultimately we stay. We like where we live even though we don't like our Governor. Are we going to then change and move after every election? Like my county but don't like the county officials. Do we move or work for change and accept what we like about where we live?

I refuse to accept being called unpatriotic when I disagree with a government or it's officials. Actually I find following someone blindly to be unpatriotic and my duty to recognize weaknesses and do what I can to see we address them. If I lived in WA I would do the same. If I boated in the Puget Sound, I wouldn't claim the state was perfect, but I'd try to do my part to improve it and I'd live with the rest.

I respect GFC although I didn't like that post at all, but I've seen him here for years and feel like I know him better.

You joined in January and posted once then and now this post calling GFC out. I don't know you and I don't respect your definition or personal portrayal of state patriotism. Perhaps when I know you better. Just don't tell people if they don't like things or disapprove of the Governor to leave. Oh, and for the record so you'll know I don't agree with GFC on his politics simply on his right to disagree, I like the Governor of Washington and I like the President. So, I'm on the other side of the chamber but still am not suggesting he leave if he disagrees.

 

[hickleyboy]

Fair criticism but my response is not meant to be portrayed as you have done so and make it about patriotism.
My response to GFC was based on the rant that was not contributing to the discussion of the potential doubling of Washington excise tax. My response was meant to be framed with the aspect of complaining about taxes for a luxury item feels disingenuous. It is a choice to own a boat. Along with that choice of ownership, it is known that there is a tax attributed to it and that the tax may increase or decrease.

I have not stated "if you don't like it here just leave" Nor was that implied in anything I wrote. Boating is a choice and privilege, not a right. It is not forced on you. If you don't like the taxes associated with boating you don't have to own a boat. That is the choice I was attempting to show.

I do not think I made any point about not liking a governor than leave. Anyone can voice their opinion or belief on an excise tax on boats, but ultimately you do have the choice of boat ownership. I don't agree with the doubling of WA excise tax. But no one promised me that because I own a boat today, that I will still be able to afford to own a boat tomorrow.
I am a supporter of WA governor and POTUS, so I am not the on the side in which you imply.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Lets not get to far into the weeds or the Admins will cut us off and close this thread

 

[backinblue]

Guess I don't understand the MD comment? While we don't pay an annual tax on boats, there is a 5% vessel excise tax to initially register the boat.

We are building our next home in Delaware. Interestingly, there is no sales tax or annual tax on boats. Not the reason we are moving here, but is nice. Had we been staying in MD (lived here for the past 30 years) I would have happily paid the sales tax to register a new boat as I love the Chesapeake Bay!

Jim

My mistake, I didn't do the research, I just seem to remember in the past, people registering boats in MD to avoid sales tax. Still, at least MD is a state that values and encourages boating.

 

[backinblue]

I just read in today's paper the long list of things our wunnerful gubner wants to raise taxes on. There are 33 proposed increases that would raise $15.7 Billion dollars annually.

I've always heard that the party he represents (starts with a "D") has been known as the "tax and spend" party. Our gubner and our president are prime examples of this.

When will people learn that voting the same jerks in every year means we'll never get out of this rat hole.

Apparently not yet!

 

[backinblue]

I agree with BandB that most of us live where we do for a variety of reasons. Very few have made a decision to move to a specific place to live. Rather than compare where is better, why not try to make the place you live better by voting for policies that you support? I can tell you from experience in my state, when the taxes get prohibitively high for boaters, they don't generally move to another state to boat cheaper. Instead, they spend their disposable money elsewhere. Many give up boating and fewer new boaters are attracted to it, so the industry as a whole suffers and contracts. Along with it, all the support businesses and jobs that go with it. That includes more than marinas and boat dealers and parts suppliers, but also all the tourist industry and restaurants etc, that boaters visit. Unfortunately it's a swing of the pendulum that eventually wakes people up. Sounds like WA is headed that way. Their overall tax burden on the general population may not be comparatively high to other states, but the burden on boaters is.