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Old 01-01-2018, 12:29 AM   #81
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I was with SR400 on that trip. It was just my wife and I. He was in his boat, we were on ASD. We were inexperianced and SR helped us out alot. I should have stayed in New Port OR, but I pushed to the Columbia River bar and got my ass handed to me. Thanks for help SR.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:10 AM   #82
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I was with SR400 on that trip. It was just my wife and I. He was in his boat, we were on ASD. We were inexperianced and SR helped us out alot. I should have stayed in New Port OR, but I pushed to the Columbia River bar and got my ass handed to me. Thanks for help SR.
Hey Alaskan,

I read your blog. That's really good stuff! Moorage costs were almost $4k? WTH! I'm shocked at that. They really stick it to the cruisers don't they?

If I had someone to cruise with I'd probably stick around and enjoy the PNW. My issue is that I boat alone and I haven't boated in over a year because I sold my other boat to buy my new one. I don't know this boat and I don't know the area. So I figure a cruise down south with a captain will groove me in to the boat and learn the coast.

I'm a little embarrassed about how nervous I am about cruising in a new boat, in a new area. I could see getting my ass in a sling because of it though. So I'm going to play it safe and stick with my plan.

Great blog, keep it going.

Cheers,
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:15 AM   #83
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For most mariners the destination is the draw not the voyage. its the places and people that make cruising great.. not the sea miles.

HOLLYWOOD
Why I like the Inside Passage so much: the voyage IS what makes cruising great - for us it IS the destination.

We have not done many open ocean sea miles, but have enjoyed just about every mile from Puget Sound to Glacier Bay, many times. Typically only 30-50 miles/day.

Incredible beauty, wonderful critters, great fishing/crabbing/shrimping, a couple hundred delightful anchorages, many enjoyable dinghy/shore excursions, and oh BTW a few interesting towns to wander around in.

Also BTW, last time I bothered to keep track, our moorage costs for the summer were less than $700 (for our 26-footer, over only three months). Moorage in AK is really cheap. BC is another story, but we don't spend all that much time tied up in a marina.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:16 PM   #84
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Hey Alaskan,

I read your blog. That's really good stuff! Moorage costs were almost $4k? WTH! I'm shocked at that. They really stick it to the cruisers don't they?

If I had someone to cruise with I'd probably stick around and enjoy the PNW. My issue is that I boat alone and I haven't boated in over a year because I sold my other boat to buy my new one. I don't know this boat and I don't know the area. So I figure a cruise down south with a captain will groove me in to the boat and learn the coast.

I'm a little embarrassed about how nervous I am about cruising in a new boat, in a new area. I could see getting my ass in a sling because of it though. So I'm going to play it safe and stick with my plan.

Great blog, keep it going.

Cheers,
Thanks Doc. As you saw in our blog we spend 5 weeks in Ketchikan for repairs which was a hugh chunk.

Good luck on your trip.......
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:57 PM   #85
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I was with SR400 on that trip. It was just my wife and I. He was in his boat, we were on ASD. We were inexperianced and SR helped us out alot. I should have stayed in New Port OR, but I pushed to the Columbia River bar and got my ass handed to me. Thanks for help SR.


Anytime Brother! It was a huge bucket list trip for me.

And DD When my boat was new I took her South to Mexico. The uphill trip is not a fun one. I have done it once on my boat and three times on other vessels. I would recommend going North into BC to complete your one year out of California.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:35 PM   #86
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Why I like the Inside Passage so much: the voyage IS what makes cruising great - for us it IS the destination.

We have not done many open ocean sea miles, but have enjoyed just about every mile from Puget Sound to Glacier Bay, many times. Typically only 30-50 miles/day.

Incredible beauty, wonderful critters, great fishing/crabbing/shrimping, a couple hundred delightful anchorages, many enjoyable dinghy/shore excursions, and oh BTW a few interesting towns to wander around in.

Also BTW, last time I bothered to keep track, our moorage costs for the summer were less than $700 (for our 26-footer, over only three months). Moorage in AK is really cheap. BC is another story, but we don't spend all that much time tied up in a marina.
Rcook,

Ya know, your right. I'm just overthinking this thing. I should postpone the Mexico trip and just start off small. Do a few short trips up north in protected waters and just take my time and get used to the boat. It's funny, so many people have been telling me to do just that but it takes one email to impinge for some reason. It's probably all of them but everyone is right. Why do a long slog south when I can take my time and check out the beautiful, protected waters of the PNW. I hear there are some treacherous tides in some areas though. I bought a couple of books about cruising the PNW with a lot of gorgeous pictures of amazing anchorages.

Thanks for finally talking some sense into my thick head. I would have stuck with the plan if there was any interest in running down South but so far no takers.

Once my year is drawing close I'll head South for home in Redwood City. My year out of the state will be up by the end of November. Do you think November is too late to be heading South down the coast?

Cheers!
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #87
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Hi Dirtdoc,

You might want to get the Douglass Exploring series cruising guides for BC and SE Alaska, and also the Waggoner guide, which mostly covers BC.

There are significant tides, for sure - up to 23 feet or so on the springs in some locations. Definitely need to know where you are on the tide and how much it will change when you anchor.

And strong currents (tidal rapids) in certain squeeze points - not too hard to deal with if you know when the slack currents are. A really good reference for the most significant rapids (in BC) is the annually updated tides and currents book "Ports and Passes".

Just to give you more to chew on, here are links to some Inside Passage cruising photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/saWFkUxARBQ1aALK2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i845P3mK5bsKBl3o1

I don't have any experience heading south down the coast.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #88
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Do you think November is too late to be heading South down the coast? Cheers!
In a word, yes. Get your vessel shaken out, your sea legs in shape and think mid September at latest to depart Port Townsend or thereabouts. Generally you'll have great fall weather up until mid October and then things start changing. The shorter days make daily decisions a bit more difficult too.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #89
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Hi Dirtdoc,

Just to give you more to chew on, here are links to some Inside Passage cruising photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/saWFkUxARBQ1aALK2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i845P3mK5bsKBl3o1

I don't have any experience heading south down the coast.
Thanks for excellent photos! - Art
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:41 AM   #90
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Hi Dirtdoc,

You might want to get the Douglass Exploring series cruising guides for BC and SE Alaska, and also the Waggoner guide, which mostly covers BC.

There are significant tides, for sure - up to 23 feet or so on the springs in some locations. Definitely need to know where you are on the tide and how much it will change when you anchor.

And strong currents (tidal rapids) in certain squeeze points - not too hard to deal with if you know when the slack currents are. A really good reference for the most significant rapids (in BC) is the annually updated tides and currents book "Ports and Passes".

Just to give you more to chew on, here are links to some Inside Passage cruising photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/saWFkUxARBQ1aALK2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i845P3mK5bsKBl3o1

I don't have any experience heading south down the coast.
Rcook,

Thanks for the pictures. I really enjoyed them. It looks like you eat pretty well while on your fishing trips. I will try to find the Tides and Currents book.

Cheers!
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:07 PM   #91
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Yes, I had to hire a legal firm that specializes in maritime law. I had to put the boat in a LLC. So I guess it's no longer a boat it's a corporation, lol. I should respond to the other thread about "What Makes a Trawler a Trawler". Unless it's a corporation, ha ha ha ha

P.S. I believe it's sales tax not use tax. May also avoid property tax. If you buy a boat that's in an LLC you don't have to pay sales tax. I believe "use tax" is what the local government charges businesses for all the supplies and personal property that is used to conduct business. Basically double taxation. Or what is also known as taxation without representation. So when I can get around paying a tax legally I feel pretty good. I'm not a maritime or tax lawyer so please check me on this stuff.
No, on your sales tax vs use tax. Sales tax is tax collected at the time of sale. Use tax is the payment of the equivalent of sales tax if sales tax was not collected. If you buy a boat in State A, you either pay sales tax or get an exemption at that time. Then you take it to State B and if you didn't pay sales tax up front, you'll pay use tax. On Sales Tax, the seller is responsible for collecting it from the buyer. On use tax, the buyer is responsible for paying it.

Sales and Use tax laws are written in such a way as to avoid any double taxation. Businesses pay use taxes when they used an exemption to not pay sales taxes.

And no, your boat isn't a corporation. It's still a boat, owned by a Limited Liability Company (also not a corporation).
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:34 PM   #92
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No, on your sales tax vs use tax. Sales tax is tax collected at the time of sale. Use tax is the payment of the equivalent of sales tax if sales tax was not collected. If you buy a boat in State A, you either pay sales tax or get an exemption at that time. Then you take it to State B and if you didn't pay sales tax up front, you'll pay use tax. On Sales Tax, the seller is responsible for collecting it from the buyer. On use tax, the buyer is responsible for paying it.

Sales and Use tax laws are written in such a way as to avoid any double taxation. Businesses pay use taxes when they used an exemption to not pay sales taxes.

And no, your boat isn't a corporation. It's still a boat, owned by a Limited Liability Company (also not a corporation).
Brand,

Corporations must be treated differently regarding the use tax or it wouldn't be worth doing the LLC thing. I just read that sales tax is assessed on a new boat. Use tax is assessed on a used boat. That must be the way out of paying either. Being in an LLC the sales tax is not paid and since it's new the use tax is not paid either. I'm going to have a talk with the law firm that set it up because my head is starting to spin!

As far as the boat being a corporation - that was a joke with another thread in mind. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone pointed that out.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:54 AM   #93
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Brand,

Corporations must be treated differently regarding the use tax or it wouldn't be worth doing the LLC thing. I just read that sales tax is assessed on a new boat. Use tax is assessed on a used boat. That must be the way out of paying either. Being in an LLC the sales tax is not paid and since it's new the use tax is not paid either. I'm going to have a talk with the law firm that set it up because my head is starting to spin!

As far as the boat being a corporation - that was a joke with another thread in mind. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone pointed that out.
I didn't say anything about how corporations or LLC's get treated. Here's why an LLC saves taxes in some states, and make sure everyone knows that it's only some state.

First, sales tax is assessed on used boats if they're sold. If they're purchased without sales tax paid, then use tax is assessed.

If an LLC buys a boat it pays sales tax just like an individual. The difference is that you have a boat in an LLC, you can sell members shares of the LLC and not the boat. Therefore, the ownership of the boat did not change. So, no tax. That's true in most states. A few see through that and still charge.

Also, don't call LLC's Corporations. There are completely different laws and tax laws for the two. While there are some similarities, there are many differences.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:53 AM   #94
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Brand,

Corporations must be treated differently regarding the use tax or it wouldn't be worth doing the LLC thing. I just read that sales tax is assessed on a new boat. Use tax is assessed on a used boat. That must be the way out of paying either. Being in an LLC the sales tax is not paid and since it's new the use tax is not paid either. I'm going to have a talk with the law firm that set it up because my head is starting to spin!
DirtDoc I think you got some bad advice, or your interpretation needs some polishing up. I am neither CPA nor Tax Attorney, but I was an owner of a California C Corp, with a resale license, for 32 years. As a young businessperson I ran afoul of the State Board of Equalization (that's the sales tax authority in Cali, y'all), had a judgement against us, protested, lost, paid the tax owed. Thereafter I had ~25 clean years of audits, due to understanding quite well how sales tax worked in my business (which was not boats).

First, the Board does not distinguish between individuals or partnerships or any form or corporation. All are known as "taxpayers."

Second, ALL sales/use tax consideration is based on the "exchange of tangible personal property." It's absolutely vital to understand this, it's the key to why some exchanges are not subject to sales/use tax.

When a taxpayer acquires a piece of tangible personal property for its own use (as opposed to resale), sales or use tax is owed. Examples:
  • You as an individual purchase a camera from B&H photo in NYC. They are not permatized in Cali, thus they do not collect sales tax. However YOU owe the use tax to the Board. But no one does this as Cali has no way to collect this info.
  • Your corporation has a resale license and purchases a camera from B&H photo in NYC for use in it's business. Again, B&H collects no sales tax. The corporation owes use tax, and if it fails to pay it, this will be picked up on audit and you will eventually pay, plus a fine. (Every entity with a resale license is audited, the SBOE had 3,600 employees at the time of my first audit in the early 90's.)
  • Your LLC, which does not hold a resale license, purchases an asset like a boat or car for its own use. Sales tax is owed if a new boat/car, use tax if it is used OR brought in from another state.
However:
  • You own an LLC, which owns a boat. You list the LLC for sale, and someone else buys the shares from you. No exchange of tangible personal property as taken place as the LLC is not such. Thus (theoretically), no use tax is owed by the buyer of your LLC, and he now additionally has your boat.

Thus, as far as sales/use tax goes, the benefit of owning a boat in an LLC is not enjoyed by you, the original purchaser. It is a benefit to the person you are selling the LLC (and boat it owns) to. And thus perhaps you command a higher price than Seller B, because Buyer knows he will have to pay use tax on Seller B's boat.

I believe all the above to be true, at least for Cali. I have "heard" of language in other states along the lines of "if the sole purpose of the LLC is to avoid sales/use tax....."

BUT!

It does appear to be true in Cali that if you keep that boat out of the Cali for one year you do not have to pay sales/use tax. I personally know of people that have done this, and googling around it still seems viable. As Cali is very voracious about tax revenues, I can only assume that back in the day there were powerful lawmakers, or friends of lawmakers, that put this loophole in place for their own benefit, and it hasn't been remedied.

It really makes no sense at all. I guarantee you that if say you move from Oregon to Cali, along with your five year old car, you are going to pay use tax on that car! Or say you came from a state with 5% sales tax, you are going to pay the difference (if any is left considering depreciation).

As has been covered extensively in several threads, we certainly don't have that loophole in WA state where I now live. If you are a WA resident, with a boat in WA, you are going to pay sales/use tax period.

So enjoy that "one year" loophole. But forget this idea that as far as acquiring a boat, being some type of corp or corp like entity means sales/use tax isn't owed (assuming one is not using the one year loophole). I'm amazed that it exists. And also know that the SBOE has an armada of lawyers on staff. It's no skin off their nose to attempt to obtain sales/use tax revenues from taxpayers no matter how sketchy their argument. You simply would not believe what I saw during my education process. In my experience, the SBOE will never provide you with written clearance that if you do x,y,z you will not owe tax.

BTW, here is their web page with advice on this subject:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub52.pdf

Postscript. I have found over the years that most CPA's do not have comprehensive knowledge about sales tax/SBOE. If I was looking for the best advice I could pay for, I would look to a Tax Attorney practice with a specialization in sales tax/SBOE. I.e. an attorney that defends people being sued by the SBOE.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:13 AM   #95
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There is Puerto Salinas between Ensenada and San Diego, but it's poorly marked and a private marina inside the bar. I'm sure in an emergency you could put in there but it's only another 30 miles or so to Ensenada.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:56 AM   #96
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DirtDoc I think you got some bad advice, or your interpretation needs some polishing up. I am neither CPA nor Tax Attorney, but I was an owner of a California C Corp, with a resale license, for 32 years. As a young businessperson I ran afoul of the State Board of Equalization (that's the sales tax authority in Cali, y'all), had a judgement against us, protested, lost, paid the tax owed. Thereafter I had ~25 clean years of audits, due to understanding quite well how sales tax worked in my business (which was not boats).

First, the Board does not distinguish between individuals or partnerships or any form or corporation. All are known as "taxpayers."

Second, ALL sales/use tax consideration is based on the "exchange of tangible personal property." It's absolutely vital to understand this, it's the key to why some exchanges are not subject to sales/use tax.

When a taxpayer acquires a piece of tangible personal property for its own use (as opposed to resale), sales or use tax is owed. Examples:
  • You as an individual purchase a camera from B&H photo in NYC. They are not permatized in Cali, thus they do not collect sales tax. However YOU owe the use tax to the Board. But no one does this as Cali has no way to collect this info.

  • Your corporation has a resale license and purchases a camera from B&H photo in NYC for use in it's business. Again, B&H collects no sales tax. The corporation owes use tax, and if it fails to pay it, this will be picked up on audit and you will eventually pay, plus a fine. (Every entity with a resale license is audited, the SBOE had 3,600 employees at the time of my first audit in the early 90's.)

  • Your LLC, which does not hold a resale license, purchases an asset like a boat or car for its own use. Sales tax is owed if a new boat/car, use tax if it is used OR brought in from another state.
However:

  • You own an LLC, which owns a boat. You list the LLC for sale, and someone else buys the shares from you. No exchange of tangible personal property as taken place as the LLC is not such. Thus (theoretically), no use tax is owed by the buyer of your LLC, and he now additionally has your boat.
Thus, as far as sales/use tax goes, the benefit of owning a boat in an LLC is not enjoyed by you, the original purchaser. It is a benefit to the person you are selling the LLC (and boat it owns) to. And thus perhaps you command a higher price than Seller B, because Buyer knows he will have to pay use tax on Seller B's boat.

I believe all the above to be true, at least for Cali. I have "heard" of language in other states along the lines of "if the sole purpose of the LLC is to avoid sales/use tax....."

BUT!

It does appear to be true in Cali that if you keep that boat out of the Cali for one year you do not have to pay sales/use tax. I personally know of people that have done this, and googling around it still seems viable. As Cali is very voracious about tax revenues, I can only assume that back in the day there were powerful lawmakers, or friends of lawmakers, that put this loophole in place for their own benefit, and it hasn't been remedied.

It really makes no sense at all. I guarantee you that if say you move from Oregon to Cali, along with your five year old car, you are going to pay use tax on that car! Or say you came from a state with 5% sales tax, you are going to pay the difference (if any is left considering depreciation).

As has been covered extensively in several threads, we certainly don't have that loophole in WA state where I now live. If you are a WA resident, with a boat in WA, you are going to pay sales/use tax period.

So enjoy that "one year" loophole. But forget this idea that as far as acquiring a boat, being some type of corp or corp like entity means sales/use tax isn't owed (assuming one is not using the one year loophole). I'm amazed that it exists. And also know that the SBOE has an armada of lawyers on staff. It's no skin off their nose to attempt to obtain sales/use tax revenues from taxpayers no matter how sketchy their argument. You simply would not believe what I saw during my education process. In my experience, the SBOE will never provide you with written clearance that if you do x,y,z you will not owe tax.

BTW, here is their web page with advice on this subject:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub52.pdf

Postscript. I have found over the years that most CPA's do not have comprehensive knowledge about sales tax/SBOE. If I was looking for the best advice I could pay for, I would look to a Tax Attorney practice with a specialization in sales tax/SBOE. I.e. an attorney that defends people being sued by the SBOE.
Well put! Thanks for link.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:08 PM   #97
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This thread has taken a turn in a direction that I definitely did not want to go. It's my fault. I appreciate the legal advice but I'll take my chances with my attorney that specializes in this area.

Anyone want to go to Mexico?

Cheers!
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:19 PM   #98
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Does your attorney have prior clients who have sheltered a new yacht build in an LLC? If so, a conversation with them would be possibly helpful.

BTW, make a bet with your attorney, say $5K plus his fee on success or failure.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:15 AM   #99
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Wink

Hi folks! I thought I'd bring you up to date on my progress towards getting my NP45 down to Mexico.

So many people were "suggesting" that I cruise the PNW before running South. I didn't pay much attention to them. It was surprising how many people were almost incensed that I was even considering running directly to Mexico after having just bought the boat and never having cruised the PNW. But they kept insisting that I had to experience the beautiful Pacific North West! Many said that once I did I would never leave. I didn't believe that for a second. But so many people were almost hounding me to just try it!

So, I decided to run out to an island or two then leave. I left Bellingham and went approximately west about 22 miles to an Island by the name of Sucia and stayed in Fossil Bay. OK it was pretty. I stayed there about 4 days and hiked all over that island. Threw the dingy in and cruised around. Then I went back to Bellingham and restocked the boat. Next I went South to La Conner then to Shileshole then to Bremerton for Trawler Fest. I met a few Trawler Forum folks while there, which was a pleasant surprise, nice people! On my way back I hit Kingston for a few days then back to Bellingham to restock. I then went back to Sucia Island then over to Blaine and up to Richmond in Canada and up the Fraser River to Deckside Marina. From there I went back down the Fraser and turned North to English Bay and in to False Creek in Vancouver. I stayed in False Creek for over a week and did the tourist thing. I cruised by Vancouver Harbor and up Indian Arm to Bedwell Cove. Stayed a few days and hiked around then went back down Indian Arm to Port Graves in Gambier Island (Howe Sound). Caught some crab and had a great dinner. Then up the Sunshine Coast to Pender Cove, then to Squirrel Cove in Cortez Island (Desolation Sound), then back down the Sunshine Coast (Straights of Georgia) and across to the gulf Islands. Clam Bay in Thetis Island, then to Montague Bay in Galiano Island where they have a great pub called Humingbird Pub. I must have stayed there for at least a week. Then to Ganges on Saltspring Island, then to Stuart Island and back to Blaine for maintenance and some added equipment like a water maker and extra freezer.

Are you starting to see a trend? 1300 nautical miles later the cruising season ended. The boat is back up the Fraser River in Richmond, Canada for the winter. It's been recommissioned with the equipment that will allow me to go further and stay out longer for next years cruising season.

I'm just trying it out to see what everyone is talking about. I'm still going to Mexico! I'm just postponing the trip until next year, or the year after that.

Cheers!
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:34 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by dirtdoc1 View Post
Hi folks! I thought I'd bring you up to date on my progress towards getting my NP45 down to Mexico.



So many people were "suggesting" that I cruise the PNW before running South. I didn't pay much attention to them. It was surprising how many people were almost incensed that I was even considering running directly to Mexico after having just bought the boat and never having cruised the PNW. But they kept insisting that I had to experience the beautiful Pacific North West! Many said that once I did I would never leave. I didn't believe that for a second. But so many people were almost hounding me to just try it!



So, I decided to run out to an island or two then leave. I left Bellingham and went approximately west about 22 miles to an Island by the name of Sucia and stayed in Fossil Bay. OK it was pretty. I stayed there about 4 days and hiked all over that island. Threw the dingy in and cruised around. Then I went back to Bellingham and restocked the boat. Next I went South to La Conner then to Shileshole then to Bremerton for Trawler Fest. I met a few Trawler Forum folks while there, which was a pleasant surprise, nice people! On my way back I hit Kingston for a few days then back to Bellingham to restock. I then went back to Sucia Island then over to Blaine and up to Richmond in Canada and up the Fraser River to Deckside Marina. From there I went back down the Fraser and turned North to English Bay and in to False Creek in Vancouver. I stayed in False Creek for over a week and did the tourist thing. I cruised by Vancouver Harbor and up Indian Arm to Bedwell Cove. Stayed a few days and hiked around then went back down Indian Arm to Port Graves in Gambier Island (Howe Sound). Caught some crab and had a great dinner. Then up the Sunshine Coast to Pender Cove, then to Squirrel Cove in Cortez Island (Desolation Sound), then back down the Sunshine Coast (Straights of Georgia) and across to the gulf Islands. Clam Bay in Thetis Island, then to Montague Bay in Galiano Island where they have a great pub called Humingbird Pub. I must have stayed there for at least a week. Then to Ganges on Saltspring Island, then to Stuart Island and back to Blaine for maintenance and some added equipment like a water maker and extra freezer.



Are you starting to see a trend? 1300 nautical miles later the cruising season ended. The boat is back up the Fraser River in Richmond, Canada for the winter. It's been recommissioned with the equipment that will allow me to go further and stay out longer for next years cruising season.



I'm just trying it out to see what everyone is talking about. I'm still going to Mexico! I'm just postponing the trip until next year, or the year after that.



Cheers!


Your just getting started. When you get further north you'll realize you still have further north to go. Take two months and go as fare as Bella Bella next summer. Pruth Bay, McNaughton Group, ocean Falls, Roscoe, Spiller.... It could go on forever.
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