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Old 03-06-2019, 08:52 PM   #1
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Opinion- accepting a new boat

Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:59 PM   #2
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It depends on the size of the boat. If it is a large boat it probably would be a good idea.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:55 PM   #3
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Yes it would be a good deal. Being new doesn't mean there are things not compliant. A surveyor would be able to spot items in which would need to be fixed before taking delivery.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:01 AM   #4
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I agree with ASD.
For our last boat, a sailboat, we ordered new. Had her surveyed, and several items were found to be “problematic”. All items were repaired right away before delivery or the final check being issued. The broker still had “incentive” to get the issues dealt with in a very timely manner.
I would go that route again if I were to buy new.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:36 AM   #5
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Great Harbor....TT 35.

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Old 03-07-2019, 02:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKPet View Post
Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?
It depends on the seller. North Pacific was no problem. They took care of any and all issues during commissioning and continue to back me up. Carver did too but dropped me like a hot rock once the warrantee expired. Even a major issue with the generator that they couldn't figure out from the very beginning. Once the warrantee expired they stopped working on it. That really pissed me off.

A good surveyor will pick up on all the issues before the check is written and while you still hold all the power. I probably should have had both my new boats surveyed prior to purchase but I'm not that smart.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:14 AM   #7
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"Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?"

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

And a sea trial. as there is only so much that can be examined with out being underway.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:35 AM   #8
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Yes to having a survey before acceptance. The only caveat that I would give to that is that they won't find everything. If I were going to invest in a new boat, it would take me a solid week of crawling around to satisfy myself. You are asking a person who may have looked at a couple of the model of boat you're buying to find any errors in a day? While they may have a trained eye for looking, the sheer volume and complexity of your average million dollar boat isn't going to be fully examined in a day. That why the surveyor's contract has an errors and omissions clause for the stuff they miss.

Ultimately, it's still up to you to do your own survey as well.

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Old 03-07-2019, 09:11 AM   #9
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On larger new builds it is common that a "person" (way more skilled and trained than your normal surveyor) familiar with that brand spends time at the factory watching for known defects and problem areas. Once into vessels that will be fully crewed the Captain may well live at the build site.

All boat builders' labor force can have a bad day. Many of these bad day problems will go unnoticed until or beyond commissioning time. I've spent time with commissioning skilled brand specific surveyors who go right to these known problem areas and assess the severity of the factory induced oops. Some are minor, some not. On this point I'm speaking of well known and high end brands.

For a near million dollar or more vessel, budgeting for a truly skilled professional with that brand's experience can prove a wise move. Rarely will new build issues hit a site like like TF. But they do whether an outboard powered Cutwater, bad drive train on a Seahorse or flop like the TT.

The notion that North Pacific, Nordhavn, Fleming or Westport build the perfect vessel has been proven wrong time and again. A boat is a complex thing and an oops or twenty is to be expected. A very smart owner, "person" or assigned crew can spot many issues as the vessel goes together. Commissioning can hopefully find and assess the rest.

So yes, once beyond an FRP rowboat, oversight is always a good idea. A friend of mine was in charge of QA/QC for a large builder. Great stories on what he found going on in his large factory. Upon retirement he was hired to look after various offshore new builds by the owner. The stories get even better.

I'd venture a guess that Steve D has a story or two on this subject.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?"

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

And a sea trial. as there is only so much that can be examined with out being underway.
Wifey B: But you didn't put enough "Yes!'s". More YES YES YES. It's not just have the survey and have a nice shakedown, but it's get all issues fixed before final acceptance. A lot easier before final payment than after.

One builder, no issues, all well. Builder two, minor things, they said they'd fix at our convenience. We said now, before final check. Less than 24 hours. Builder three, same deal but they got them all that afternoon. Fortunately all minor things.

However, tragic stories of new boats with major flaws never fixed by the builder and buyer finally just took to others and paid out of their pocket at great cost to get the boat they were supposed to new. Then a couple of boats with design flaws that functioned but never handled right.

Survey survey survey.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
On larger new builds it is common that a "person" (way more skilled and trained than your normal surveyor) familiar with that brand spends time at the factory watching for known defects and problem areas. Once into vessels that will be fully crewed the Captain may well live at the build site.



All boat builders' labor force can have a bad day. Many of these bad day problems will go unnoticed until or beyond commissioning time. I've spent time with commissioning skilled brand specific surveyors who go right to these known problem areas and assess the severity of the factory induced oops. Some are minor, some not. On this point I'm speaking of well known and high end brands.



For a near million dollar or more vessel, budgeting for a truly skilled professional with that brand's experience can prove a wise move. Rarely will new build issues hit a site like like TF. But they do whether an outboard powered Cutwater, bad drive train on a Seahorse or flop like the TT.



The notion that North Pacific, Nordhavn, Fleming or Westport build the perfect vessel has been proven wrong time and again. A boat is a complex thing and an oops or twenty is to be expected. A very smart owner, "person" or assigned crew can spot many issues as the vessel goes together. Commissioning can hopefully find and assess the rest.



So yes, once beyond an FRP rowboat, oversight is always a good idea. A friend of mine was in charge of QA/QC for a large builder. Great stories on what he found going on in his large factory. Upon retirement he was hired to look after various offshore new builds by the owner. The stories get even better.



I'd venture a guess that Steve D has a story or two on this subject.

This is very, very good advice. And you should go along with this expert as you will learn lots in the process.

Jim
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:02 AM   #12
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This might answer your question: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/s...ction-reports/
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before the final check is written?
- PKPet
Hi PKPet:


Would it be possible to get more details? Are you having a new Nauset 33 built, or some other brand?


I ask because if you are having, perhaps, a new center console built, then yes, a survey before final payment is a good idea.


If you are having a new trawler or cruiser built, i.e. a boat that includes all of the liveaboard and safety systems necessary for long term cruising, my response will be more in depth.


Cheers,
Pea
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #14
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One caveat Miz Trom's post reminds me of. You may have a contract subject to survey, you may survey and major issues remain, and you may still be in trouble with an unscrupulous builder. I've known people with several different builders to end up held hostage. It's pay me the rest or you don't get the boat. Now, you owe a little, have paid a lot, and you either have to sue to get your boat or pay the ransom. Then after that you have the choice of suing or absorbing the loss.

Three specifics.
1-Boat had major issues found in inspection. Builder refused to fix. Buyer sued and won entire amount plus interest and return of boat.
2-Boat wasn't finished and was held hostage. Suit but builder went bankrupt. Buyer got boat and had finished by someone else.
3-Boat failed survey, builder refused to fix. Buyer paid the ransom, took boat, had it fixed at their expense.

I could list others, but the reality is the survey won't protect you from a dishonest builder. It will inform you and may help in court if you go that route although I could point to cases where it didn't there because of other issues with the case and lack of buyer credibility. Choose your builder carefully. Still survey.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:03 PM   #15
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Bottom line in all the above? Get it surveyed before you accept it or future repairs will be on you,
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
One caveat Miz Trom's post reminds me of. You may have a contract subject to survey, you may survey and major issues remain, and you may still be in trouble with an unscrupulous builder. I've known people with several different builders to end up held hostage. It's pay me the rest or you don't get the boat. Now, you owe a little, have paid a lot, and you either have to sue to get your boat or pay the ransom. Then after that you have the choice of suing or absorbing the loss.

Three specifics.
1-Boat had major issues found in inspection. Builder refused to fix. Buyer sued and won entire amount plus interest and return of boat.
2-Boat wasn't finished and was held hostage. Suit but builder went bankrupt. Buyer got boat and had finished by someone else.
3-Boat failed survey, builder refused to fix. Buyer paid the ransom, took boat, had it fixed at their expense.

I could list others, but the reality is the survey won't protect you from a dishonest builder. It will inform you and may help in court if you go that route although I could point to cases where it didn't there because of other issues with the case and lack of buyer credibility. Choose your builder carefully. Still survey.

As suggested, one should choose their builder carefully and that includes a lot of due diligence, specially, if you are having a boat built for you. Check organizations like the BBB and check with other owners who used the builder. One might think social media would reveal major issues with a builder but many buyers won't go public with bad experiences with their builder. A potential buyer might want to check court records to get a feeling if a builder has been litigated by previous buyers. Unfortunately, many end in settlements without the story coming out.

Check to see if a Naval Architect was involved in designing the boat. The most successful and most desired boat designs have a Naval Architect behind them.

Before buying the boat, READ READ READ the contract and assess how willing you might be to go to court if the builder doesn't deliver a quality product or doesn't fully comply with the terms of the contract. The ugly truth is most of us don't want to be involved in litigation even if we are completely in the right.

Insist the contract state the builder will comply with ABYC standards.

It is rare for almost everyone to agree on TF but in this thread, all seem to agree to get the boat surveyed. And keep in mind, your insurance company will most likely make you survey it anyway.
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Old 03-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #17
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Myself and two surveyor friends have been going to the Toronto boat show together for around 25yrs/. our goal is to find a cruising type boat that complies with Transport Canada legal requirements and ABYC Standards.
We have not found one yet, not even the ones that claim to be built "using" ABYC Standards.

Note that when you see that ABYC label on a new boat it does not say "Built to ABYC Standards" It says " Built Using ABYC Standards" and people wonder why I'm a little cynical.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #18
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BP

Sounds like you are ready to go into the boat building business and show how it is done to your personal acceptance level. BTW, are ABYC guidelines standards or recommendations? Then Euro and Australian guidelines for those locale built boats. Now Transport Canada enters the fray. Whew!
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:19 PM   #19
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BP

Sounds like you are ready to go into the boat building business and show how it is done to your personal acceptance level. BTW, are ABYC guidelines standards or recommendations? Then Euro and Australian guidelines for those locale built boats. Now Transport Canada enters the fray. Whew!
Many ABYC Standards are required by Transport Canada and they have been trying to do away with their own standards for years and replace them entirely with ABYC. The problem has been they are unable to get Quebec to agree to French translations. My point is simply that no builder I have ever seen builds to the required Transport Canada standards or ABYC Standards even tho' they say (imply) that they do.
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:45 PM   #20
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- PKPet
Hi PKPet:


Would it be possible to get more details? Are you having a new Nauset 33 built, or some other brand?


I ask because if you are having, perhaps, a new center console built, then yes, a survey before final payment is a good idea.


If you are having a new trawler or cruiser built, i.e. a boat that includes all of the liveaboard and safety systems necessary for long term cruising, my response will be more in depth.


Cheers,
Pea


I had the Nauset built in 1997. I am retiring in 2 years and would like to cruise with friends and still continue to fish for tuna and strippers. My new boat needs to be 40 ft with 2 staterooms and a cockpit designed to fish. Unfortunately I can’t find one that cruises and fishes. Hence I am designing a boat with Nauset. A boat unfortunately can’t do all things well.
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