Vacuuflush & Peggie Hall

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Appreciate the update, will use silicone based lube.
 
Simon, thanks for your support of the VF systems in the face of "haters"; I am very happy with mine and have been for 8 years. I've pretty much given up on commenting publicly in TF anymore because someone always comes out of the woodwork with vitriol.
 
syjos said:
Here we go again with Vacu Flush haters spewing their unsolicited, uninformed negative opinions.

The original poster simply asked a question regarding Peggy Halls VF troubleshooting tips.

I didn't see where he asked for an opinion on VacuFlush. Nor did he discuss replacing it and ask for replacement advise.

When VF haters see any post regarding VF's, they gleefully provide their incorrect, uninformed opinions without being asked.

If someone asks for advise on toilet purchasing decisions, go ahead and spew your hate. But when someone asks for troubleshooting/repair advice and you have no constructive tips to contribute, perhaps you should keep the hate to yourself.

There are more VF systems out there because they've been sold for over 25 years so of course we see more issues. We will see how other types of marine toilets fare after 25 years. There are plenty of VF's working perfectly fine in boats owned by knowledgeable boaters and most would not ponder replacement.

Full disclosure: I've been a Dometic/Sealand (Vacu Flush) dealer for nearly 30 years. I also sell Rariton, Jabsco and other brands. I have a VF in my boat.
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And the same excuses for a lousy system prone to breakdowns and sometimes a money pit. We are not haters. We simply are expressing an opinion that there are systems far superior than vacuflush with the hope that vacuflush owners having problems may choose differently in the future. And the reason so many VF systems are out there is because that's what builders installed. So, I categorically reject your assertion that I am a hater. I am, however, a fan of boat stuff that works, is reliable, and that I don't have to maintain a spare parts inventory in order to ensure I can take a crap once or twice a day. I mean one look at that Rube Goldberg contraption and one can see muliple points of failure. An electric head? You sit on it, crap, flush, and forget. You don't even need a macerating pump to pump overboard, just a near bullet-proof Dometic TW pump, not a clog-prone macerating pumps with small passages.
 
syjos said:
Moonfish,

When the pump is put back together, sometimes the O rings on the lid or inside the bellows will get twisted. Lots of vaseline on the O ring prevents the O ring from squeezing out or twisting.

When the bellow is pushed onto the lid, it has to be pushed in evenly all the way around and flat or the O ring inside the bellow will distort, twist or squeeze out of the groove. The vaseline helps with this procedure. It sometimes take two or three tries before the O ring inside the bellow fits properly.

The duckbill's need to be vaselined before installing too.

When installing the pressure switch, vaseline it well and twist it in. Pushing it straight in may dislodge the O ring. Look carefully at the O rings on the switch and make sure they are in the switch aperture properly.) Too far in or not in far enough can cause one of the O rings to leak from not having full contact with the aperture walls.

To remove a sanitation hose, heat it carefully with a heat gun. To reinstall, clean both the inside of the hose and barb, apply dish wash soap to hose and barb, heat with gun and twist it back on. You can also stick the hose end into a bowl of hot water to soften it which is a safer method since water will distribute heat evenly.

Wait for the hose to cool a bit before tightening hose.
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And, syjos, you just made the case for preciselu why VF is a terrible system.
 
syjos said:
The vacuum gauge tester will locate the leak if other troubleshooting methods were not successful.

If the bowl holds water for several hours, then the ball seal is fine.

Turn off the water and Vacu Flush pump. Open the ball and insert the testers cone into the hole at the base. Smear dish wash soap on the cone first. Turn on the pump and let it cycle. If it holds vacuum for 10 minutes or longer, the problem is at the toilet. Water valve, pedal shaft seals, bowl/base seal or flange seal.

If it doesn't hold vacuum for 10 minutes, the leak is downstream.

Disconnect the hose at the pump and insert the soaped testers cone into the pump inlet and start the pump. Make sure pump has water in it to wet the duck bills. If it does not holds vacuum, the leak is in the pump/vacuum generator. If it holds vacuum, the leak is between pump and toilet.

Take the pump off the vacuum generator, insert tester cone in inlet and start pump.* If it holds vacuum, the leak is in the tank (pressure switch, O rings, Uniseal )

If you have a separate pump and vacuum tank, the leak can be in the hose connecting the two.* Test pump as described above to determine if the leak is in the pump, hose or tank.

To check for leaks in the hose, I plug both ends with home made adapters, one end has an air chuck to hook up a compressor. Charge the hose with 10 to 20 psi and check connections with liquid soap.

On hard to locate leaks, I tested pumps and vacuum tanks for leaks by plugging outlets, removing motor, connecting a compressor to them and 10 to 20 psi pressure to locate a leak by submerging in water.* Make sure to smear vaseline on the external parts of the pressure switch to keep water out of it while submerging in water.

If you need a vacuum tester, Marine Sanitation in Seattle has them. PM me and I can get it for you at dealer price.

If you get a vacuum tester, don't be concerned about the vacuum reading. The gauge is not accurate. It is used to see if the system holds vacuum or not.
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Again, more reasons not to keep a VF. Syjos, you really have become a good salesman for Marine Elegance. This is actually getting amusing. Now we even need a vacuum tester in order to take a crap.
 
"And the reason so many VF systems are out there is because that's what builders installed."

I believe is is because the boat designer can get away with not having a working head system as part of the builders plan.

Only first purchaser demand can cure this, and many other built in design flaws.
 
syjos said:
Dave,

You never fail to respond negatively whenever someone posts about VF. I've called you out for it on numerous occasions and we always have the same discussion and disagreement.

You are not the only VF hater. There are several others.

I did not refer to you, or anybody else specific, at all in post 25 when I posted my response to the VF haters. I would not have to post what you refer to as "hate language" if you don't post unsolicited negative comments about Vacu Flush.

You and others hate Vacu Flush toilets. So isn't VF hater the correct terminology?

If someone asks for a VF review, go ahead and post your constructive opinion. But when someone asks for specific VF advice or help, you are not helping anyone by posting your unfavorable opinion.

How do you suppose someone feels after he/she buys a new to them boat, asks for VF advice and gets unsolicited negativity and suggestions to toss the VF system out and replace it with something else?

I get contacted constantly by boaters after they read on Trawler Forum about how the VF is awful, troublesome, expensive to maintain and other negative comments. I end up reassuring them that they don't have an unreliable, troublesome and expensive to maintain toilet. And that it's not going to fail on them immediately.

New boaters come on this forum for advice and education. They require constructive helpful advice and comments. Not a TF member giving quick negative comments unrelated to the OP's original question.

So think about the impact of your statements.

I rest my case.
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And Dave and I give those new boaters advice. Why is it that if we disagree with your advice and opinion that somehow turns us into haters while your opinions are, well, just your opinions. Who is the real hater? If you cannot engage in civil discourse perhaps you should give us all a break and spew your hate elsewhere.
 
Tomorrow we’re surveying a Nordic tug with 2 VFs in it. Although new heads won’t beak the bank doing the work to replace them is a major PIA.
My interest in following this thread was to learn what I could do to keep them going. As usual Peggie Hall was helpful. But in all honesty YouTube was more helpful. I’m a bit of an idiot. I want to see a parts list with advice where I can get them for less than list and know what I should carry on the boat.
I want a blow up schematic I can enlarge and still read the print.
I want someone to walk an all thumbs, myopic idiot like me through the common repairs.
I want a list of proven additives and actions that will increase the intervals between maintenance and repair.
One sides contribution has been “it sucks get rid of it”. Not very helpful.
The other some generic information summarized on one sheet of non enlargable paper as then the print is illegible.
I appreciate the Head Mistress. Reading between the lines infer she’s not a fan but she’s polite and helpful. Wish others were.
 
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Barrington what?
That makes a big difference on the "where to buy the parts".

On my N46, I had two electrically operated heads with a back up handle.
The only problem I had was, the designer or builder or someone decided to put a 90 in the discharge line. Once I replaced them with 2X45s, never had a problem other than the duck valves, which is expected. I replaced them once or twice a year, preventative maintenances.
 
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There is a rumor I have started that Peggy is going to come to my boat and install a brand new Raitan Elegance.
Isn't that wonderful of her?
 
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When we bought our boat 3 years ago, I rebuilt/ replaced all the “wear” items on both heads to zero time them for our use. Afterwards, the guest head vacuum pump would still cycle occasionally. Went through the trouble shooting process with the vacuum gauge and it turned out a section of the hard plumbing had developed a leak. I had to cut out a section of the guest berth floor to access it and splice in a replacement. Now almost 3 years later when we come to the boat and turn on the head switches, both are green even after 3 weeks. We do use a bit more water with a flush and have used no-flex since we took ownership.

We don’t hate vacuflush heads, and if we were building a new boat we would go for a raritan electric just to have the extra room where the vacuum generators and extra hose is now.
 
I have a VF and "like" it. There are probably better systems, but I'm certain that there are worse. I know because I've had them. I'm now going on two years without a VF issue. Can't say that about most of its 40 year-old contemporaries. My best experience was with a Wilcox-Crittenden head on a liveaboard. Porcelain bowl and all metal mechanism. Pumped directly overboard, which tells you how long ago that was. I think I could have flushed a tennis shoe. On a scale of good to bad, VF is still probably a 7 despite its shortcomings.
 
Hippocampus said:
Rhode Island.
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Perhaps your best option is to buy from the man on here who sells VF. I have forgotten his name. Guess you will scan back for the commercial member.
You can also do an internet search for parts.
I suggest you buy a complete spare rebuild kit for each head after you get what you need now.
 
Hippocampus said:
Tomorrow we’re surveying a Nordic tug with 2 VFs in it. Although new heads won’t beak the bank doing the work to replace them is a major PIA.
My interest in following this thread was to learn what I could do to keep them going. As usual Peggie Hall was helpful. But in all honesty YouTube was more helpful. I’m a bit of an idiot. I want to see a parts list with advice where I can get them for less than list and know what I should carry on the boat.
I want a blow up schematic I can enlarge and still read the print.
I want someone to walk an all thumbs, myopic idiot like me through the common repairs.
I want a list of proven additives and actions that will increase the intervals between maintenance and repair.
One sides contribution has been “it sucks get rid of it”. Not very helpful.
The other some generic information summarized on one sheet of non enlargable paper as then the print is illegible.
I appreciate the Head Mistress. Reading between the lines infer she’s not a fan but she’s polite and helpful. Wish others were.
Click to expand...

If the vacuum pumps are easily accessible you’ll have a “no problem” setup. If the pumps are tucked into a tight spot you’ll be less than thrilled. My two VF units are very accessible thus no thoughts of suicide. You may be shocked at the price a good yard would charge to do a quality install of an alternative toilet.
 
OldDan1943 said:
There is a rumor I have started that Peggy is going to come to my boat and install a brand new Raitan Elegance.
Isn't that wonderful of her?
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Did that rumor happen to include how much I'm going to charge you--plus travel expenses, btw--to do that?


--Peggie
 
Is there a correlation between the type of head and the type of anchor being used??
 
Comodave said:
If you would just be nice about expressing your opinion then I would not have any issue with it. And you have multiple times said people should not post on a VF thread unless it was to answer exactly what the OP asked. I take that to mean that you are indeed trying to stop members from disparaging VF systems.
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I'll stop using the words hate and hater.

But I will still push back when I see unsolicited negativity towards VF.

On this thread, I take back everything I posted and replace it with:

"Jeez the OP asked where to get Peggy's VF Troubleshooting Guide, not your opinion of VF"

Isn't that nicer?
 
Conrad said:
Simon, thanks for your support of the VF systems in the face of "haters"; I am very happy with mine and have been for 8 years. I've pretty much given up on commenting publicly in TF anymore because someone always comes out of the woodwork with vitriol.
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Thank you very much for your positive support.

Many clients, friends and fellow Yacht Club members express the same thing.

They don't post much because of the unpleasantness.
 
syjos said:
I'll stop using the words hate and hater.

But I will still push back when I see unsolicited negativity towards VF...
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One one view, you solicited the negativity.
 
OldDan1943 said:
One nice thing about a VF, it teaches everyone to put the seat and lid down. The VF have been known to spit back a little water. LOL
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Ummm... I've been noticing this... ick.

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Ummm... I've been noticing this... ick.

-Chris
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Your mama tried to teach you to put the seat down after use. The VF is teaching you to put the lid down too.
Plus it will keep things falling into the bowl.
 
Bmarler said:
few things are worse than dealing with head issues. i've been using a vacuuflush for about 25 years. i think it's really been about as dependable as anything could be. you're right, when there's water in the bowl and the pump keeps running it typically means the pump isn't making or holding vacuum. usually changing out the duck bills cures it. clogged output lines can be an issue, at least they have been for me before. never had the pressure switch go bad, but it sure could. i guess if you have the vacuum gauge coming you'll see exactly what the pump is doing. you can usually tell if it's building vacuum though by the way it sounds when you crack the flush ball.
if you have the combined pump/tank vacuum generator you can spray a little fresh water on the input line seal and see if it squeals, sometimes they do if the seal is failing. (rare though)
any more, when my pump has issues i take the whole thing off, break it down and soak it in muriatic acid. new bellows and duck bills.
i'll run that sew clean through the vacuum tank, check/replace the lines and possibly replace the y valve.
it might be overkill, but if i do it all, it tends to last years before it needs attention again. nothing worse than having one of those bellows give up, i've had it happen twice that i remember. best of luck with it.
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I have had to replace a vacuum bottle/container and a pressure valve. More recently I chased and occasional vac leak in the forward head with water in the bowl. Changed the duck bills first. Changed the bottom flange. Changed the flush assembly with new. Changed the bottom flange again as there were issues with the first one. Finally a plumber said that there was the non-pedestal taller base that did not use the bottom flange seal. I bought that and the problem was solved. But my feet barely hit the floor when seated. Only cost just shy of $1,000 all tolled.
 
I have not had any issues with splashback teaching me to close the VF lid, but I did mention here a few moons ago the fact that a clear light lens managed to detach itself from an overhead light and unknown to anybody bounced off the vanity and into the toilet. It was just a tiny bit bigger than the bottom of the funnel of the toilet where it transitions to hose. Could not see it in there when investigation of why the toilet would not flush got to that point, and it sealed PERFECTLY (83GB below found it!). Thinking the vacuum switch was the reason the pump motor would not function and that there must be no vacuum in the system, I ruined the switch pulling it out of a tank which actually had plenty of vacuum. Oh, well! Mine MUST work - we only have one head. I can still go out there years after that fix and with the power having been off for a week or two still get a complete flush with it.

I had to replace the pump motor and bellows combination on a VF on a boat we were delivering last January (again only head on the boat) after the motor seized taking a few few of improperly fused wire and scaring us to death with the smoke in the process. With good access to that vacuum generator, the repair did not take a half hour.
 
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Mako said:
Ricky, were you being sarcastic or are you actually happy with that bill?
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Quite sarcastic. Pissed me off. Replacing the flange seal twice, buying the flush assembly only to have all that replaced with the new base. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars spent on a Vacuflush certified plumber. But now, its silence all night long.
 
vacuflush

I have two of them and I think they are great. The one in my forward head, would cycle about every hour; aft one would hold vacuum for weeks on end. I put up with the forward vacuflush for years but then found time to investigate/repair. I tried lots of things to fix forward head. I ultimately found it to be the black plastic part on the floor where the white vacuum hose attaches. It had a ever so slight crack. I replaced it and both vacuflushes now hold vacuum for weeks without ANY pumping.
 
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