Vacuuflush & Peggie Hall

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
A night switch is only intended to be used as its name implies: to prevent the pump from starting after flushes in the middle of the night--which depending on where it's located relative to a berth can blow you out of sound sleep--or to turn off the system including water to it to do any maintenance.

The VF system is designed to be left on 24-7. I've known people (me included) who've accidentally left it on at the breaker when leaving the boat and returned a week or more later to find it still holding full vacuum. Turning it on and off with every use just puts unnecessary wear on it on the pump and may prevent it from pushing the flush all the way to the tank. Leaving it off except to use the toilet also prevents you from hearing the pump running for no reason between flushes, which is the first indication of an air leak and may or may only let you know it's time to replace the duckbills, but can reveal an air leak somewhere else or a failing vacuum tank switch.



You don't turn of the water to a household toilet after every flush...don't turn off the night switch to a VF after every flush either!


--Peggie
 
Last edited:
We are in the midst of replacing one of our Vacuflush toilets with a Marine Elegance. And as an update to the video below, we finally identified the vacuum leak when we pulled the toilet. There was a very small tear/hole in the outlet hose at the base of the toilet just past the clamps. Doh!

 
Peggie,

I know that you are an expert, but I have some justification for using a switch. Mine isn't actually a night switch. As you state, a night switch is so that the VF doesn't cycle during the night. I have a "parts and maintenance reduction" switch next to my VF head.

The VF system is designed to be left on 24-7.

Maybe that is a design flaw, as 24-7 live electrical feed is not necessary for the system to fully function. It does save the installer from putting in a "parts and maintenance reduction" switch, but from the posts I've read it sounds like not having one creates more maintenance for the owner (which requires more parts.) As I'm sure you know, the switch is simply inline with the vacuum switch on the tank. It is only the cost of a switch and X feet of wire. It would cost less than a set of duckbills (and much easier and more pleasant to install.)

I've known people (me included) who've accidentally left it on at the breaker when leaving the boat and returned a week or more later to find it still holding full vacuum.

I've had a counter in the bilge pump to tell if cycles when I'm gone, but never heard of anybody with one on the VF. How would one know when returning three weeks later that it hasn't cycles once (or more)? With a parts and maintenance reduction switch, leaving the breaker on isn't an issue. I know that mine doesn't cycle in my absence even should I leave the breaker on.

Cycling is an indication of a tiny leak caused by a crack in a seal or maybe just a particle. Having effluent constantly sucked through that leak can only worsen the situation. Maybe make the leak permanent. Most likely hasten the need for seal replacement. My reasoning is that it is better to turn off the vacuum as much as possible to save the seals.

Turning it on and off with every use just puts unnecessary wear on it on the pump and may prevent it from pushing the flush all the way to the tank.

I don't see how not running a pump causes wear. I can see how leaving it on puts wear on the system, as it may cycle in one's absence. My parts and maintenance reduction switch can only reduce the pump run time, but not increase it (or the amount of time the system is under vacuum.)

I don't think that the VF system is clairvoyant and knows when the effluent has reached the tank. It simply turns off based on the vacuum setting. Even if the VF system were clairvoyant, one can simply wait until the system reaches the preset vacuum, turns itself off, and then throw the switch. A quick flush and the system is at zero vacuum. Won't cycle, doesn't leave tank and hoses under stress, can't have leak down eroding duckbills.

Leaving it off except to use the toilet also prevents you from hearing the pump running for no reason between flushes, which is the first indication of an air leak and may or may only let you know it's time to replace the duckbills, but can reveal an air leak somewhere else or a failing vacuum tank switch.

By using the parts and maintenance reduction switch I'm still testing the vacuum tank switch every time. I'm just not testing how many minutes, hours, days, weeks the entire system can try to hold a vacuum. Because I don't need to (and therefore I really don't care).

You don't turn of the water to a household toilet after every flush...don't turn off the night switch to a VF after every flush either!

But you could (and probably would) shut the water off every time if it was easier than routinely trouble shooting and replacing the toilet plumbing (i.e., less cost and maintenance.) Actually, changing a toilet flapper is a walk in the park compared to any VF seal/tank/hose/pump maintenance. And if turning off the water to a household toilet was as easy as pushing a simple button next to a VF head, I would guess that a switch would replace the household toilet flapper system.

Maybe I should be worried that my duckbills might not hold the proper duration, but I don't care. I don't even know how many hours/days/weeks my seals should hold a vacuum. Are there are rules of conduct or a code of behavior regarding VF vacuum retention? I'm probably a bad boater for not routinely testing the vacuum, buying VF parts, and replacing my duckbills and seals. Instead, I'm cheating with a parts and maintenance reduction switch. So far, so good.
 
One can buy a bilge counter and hook it up to a VF pump if one really wanted to know how many times it cycled while not on the boat. I leave my VF on 24/7. I keep Duckbills, bowl seals, and pedal return cartridges in my spares kit. I seem to get 5 years out of these and I only replace when they go bad. Hoses seem to have anywhere from a 10 to 20 year life. Bellows seem to have a 15 year life before they crack and cause problems.

Now I have seen a whole host of issues with VF toilets that have been abused or improperly installed. There is also the issue where some people complain that their 25 year old VF system is problematic. Personally every 25 year old system on my boat is problematic except my two CAT diesels.
 
Vacuflush problem

I have a Vacuflush system, with a vacuum generator about 22 years old. The pump won’t stop running. I have recently replaced the bellows, the four duckbill valves and the vacuum switch. Water will stay in the bowl and the system holds a vacuum. Once I get it to stop, it can come back a week later and it will still have enough vacuum to flush. But I can’t get it to build up enough vacuum to shut off. I have to either shut it off at the breaker panel or pull on the new vacuum switch a little bit to shut off the motor.

Does anyone have any ideas about this? The difference between my problem and others discussed on the forum is that my system is holding a vacuum just fine, and it is enough vacuum to flush just fine, but it doesn’t seem to be enough vacuum to pull in the pressure switch sufficiently to shut of the motor.
 
Did you check the hose connections for leaks? This often is only tightening hose clamps. A simple method for checking the connections is to smear a little shaving cream where the hose touches the pipe. The shaving cream gets sucked in where the leaks are.

Ted
 
I will do that, but if it were leaking, it would not hold vacuum, right?
 
The seal between the bowl and the base may be leaking. It's the seal that also keeps the water in the bowl.

Ted
 
I will do that, but if it were leaking, it would not hold vacuum, right?

You would think. Sometimes leaks seal eventually with vacuum or pressure, only to start leaking again when the vacuum or pressure is removed and restarted.

Ted
 
Actually, water stays in the bowl just fine, but the system won't seem to build up quite enough pressure (vacuum) for the switch to shut the motor off.
 
But I will go ahead and replace that seal. Maybe that will somehow magically do the trick!
 
I wouldn't do anything more until you've talked to a VacuFlush service tech. Ardemco in Costa Mesa is the nearest regional dealer and service center 800-253-0115


--Peggie
 
Gypsy Diver, I have experienced a vacuum leak on two VF systems through the o-rings on the pedal shaft. It is best to order the shaft with o-rings as a kit from a dealer.
 
Have you considered replacing the vacuum switch?
I had a problem, removed the switch and exercised the sensor. BUT just incase I replaced the sensor and kept the other as a spare.
 
From the description, it cannot be a vacuum leak. To keep the pump running, the leak would need to be bigger than the capacity of the pump, that is a pretty big vacuum leak, no way it would hold vacuum for a week or even an hour. Sounds to me like either the pump is not efficient (diaphram or one of the four duck bills), or the vacuum switch needs to be adjusted.
 
Problem Solved

From the description, it cannot be a vacuum leak. To keep the pump running, the leak would need to be bigger than the capacity of the pump, that is a pretty big vacuum leak, no way it would hold vacuum for a week or even an hour. Sounds to me like either the pump is not efficient (diaphram or one of the four duck bills), or the vacuum switch needs to be adjusted.


Problem solved. Thanks DDW. The instructions for the vacuum switch say not to adjust it, that it is set at the factory. Well phooy on that I made a small adjustment (had to turn the threads hard enough to break the locktite) and now it works perfectly and shuts off after about 45 seconds.
 
Back
Top Bottom