Vacuflush Toilets

[Alaskaflyer]

Well, this went south quickly. You'd think this was an argument about anchors, and not a turd removal system. Glad to see someone so proud for representing for their chosen sanitation device that they are willing to introduce the pejorative and loaded word "hater" into a conversation.

I for one - now that we've cleared up that the size hose is probably incorrect for the OP - am interested in typical needed maintenance on an electric macerator-style toilet over a period of years, since it appears that - like most boat systems - a VF will continue to work if you continue to fix it Since due to my budget the age and condition of my next vessel will no doubt introduce a variable of doubt as to the working condition of the fecal elimination infrastructure on board.

 

[menzies]

Obviously a big consideration on "gravity based" systems is the run between the head and the holding tank.

My last boat was an aft cabin with two electric heads, and had a good 25 feet between the aft head and the holding tank which was by the guest cabin. The hose dropped, then ran flat along the side of the ER, before crossing the front of the ER, dropping a couple of feet into the tank. Every flush just moved the sewage along the hose but at any given timer there was 20 feet of crud in there.

It was a constant maintenance battle!

 

[Dougcole]

I have no issues with negative comments if responding to someone that asked for opinions about a product. If they are constructive negative comments and opinions.

I object to unsolicited negative comments. Whenever someone mentions VF, there are always derisive comments.

The comment "Save yourself the future headaches that your vacuflush has planned for you. Put it in the dumpster where it belongs." is not helpful to OP even if the poster is "half kidding". I will always respond to unsolicited, unconstructive comments like this regarding VF or other products unfairly maligned.

That was my comment.


For the record, I'm not offended if you call me a Vacuflush hater. I think that describes me pretty well. I don't hate the people who own, work on or sell Vacuflush, but I do hate vacuflush toilets. Or at least I hate MY vacuflush toilet.


I fail to see how vacuum leaks are caused by user error. I put that in bold in the hopes that no one reading this thread is going to come on and tell me, for the seventy billionth time, to use more water when we flush. We have been doing that for seven years now. We have never had a single clog with our VF, and it does not pass odor. The problem is the vacuum leaks.


And yes, we use it a lot.



And yes, I have taken very good care of it.



And yes, I've done continuous maintenance on it. I actually think that is the issue. I think it is best if you have a VF that is working to not touch it. Odds are high that you will do more damage than good.



When I failed to fix it I brought it to Environmental Marine in Fort Lauderdale, who is one of the biggest VF dealers in the country. They are also very nice, very professional and very knowledgeable. They rebuilt my entire vacuum generator, in house, including a new tank 19 months ago. It worked fine for 6 months, then more leaks.


Two months ago, they helped me troubleshoot my ongoing leaks via phone. The worst one was at the shaft on the flush pedal. We spent at least three hours over multiple calls, and though we got it better, it still cycles every 15 minutes or so. At some point, I'll pull the tank and bring it back to them, but I'm through spending any more money on the system.


There is a small chance that the leak is in the hose from the toilet to the generator, though Environmental Marine doesn't think so. But it's a really big job to replace that hose and if I go to the trouble to pull it out I'm changing the entire system to something else. I don't want to install the new hose and find that the system still leaks.


So to wrap it up, if you like your VF, great. I'm truly happy for you. But I've spent probably 50 hours and well over $1,000 to get mine to work correctly and it does not. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows about the issues. Mine is a POS, and I'm not going to keep my mouth shut about that.

 

[Gearbuster]

I worked at the factory in Ohio in Engineering. 90% of problems are from poor installation and there is no way to fix those problems with out going through the entire system and correcting them with someone that knows what they are doing.


The 1" hose was because the previous head was a macerator (as someone suggested)and someone was too lazy to replace it...


Gearbuster

 

[Bacchus]

I have only had electric maceration heads but agree they are pretty simple and easy to rebuild every 10 yrs or when needed. I have helped a good boat buddy several times with his VF. The last time we relocated and replumbed it so it was easy to remove and work on.
All I can say is find an exploded parts list for a macerator and a VF and compare them. Then price out the repair parts and the recommended frequency.
Also. Don't forget to include the vac check tool to be able to troubleshoot the VF without needing to completely replace it to find out if the fix worked or not.

 

[OldDan1943]

I have a VF, fits me perfectly, fairly comfortable.
Over the years I have enjoyed it, I have replace duck valves, piston, the large white gasket, ball valve and the foot pump piston.
I have learned to keep a box of the above parts onboard. With all boat systems, things seem to break Friday or over the weekend. Gotta have the parts on-hand to fix things.
Based on my experience, you have a 90 in the system, use 2X45 instead. Things flow better.

 

[firehoser75]

Doug,
Sorry to hear about your trials and issues with your VF. I too, would be unhappy if that was my experience.
However, I have owned a Vacuflush for 4 seasons now, and it is original on an 18 year old boat. It works great and has not given me any problems. I did change out the duckbills 2 years ago (all 4) as preventative maintenance. I am going to do that again this winter. Duckbills are definitely a maintenance item on any installation that uses them. They are one of the top spots for developing vacuum leaks. I use Rector Seal #5 (yellow) on the hoses. This enables easier installation and removal and I think helps with the seal where the hoses connect to the system. I like to work on the sanitation system when it suits me (in other words when it is the cleanest), and not when the system decides I know the duckbills can probably last longer than 2 years, but I feel that being proactive in this regard is in my best interest. Cleaner for sure

I hope whatever you decide to do works out well for you.

 

[cks]

We love our VF. FYI, we never flush toilet paper. We have a separate garbage pail for TP.

IMO, go with 1 1/2” hose. Better yet, while it’s a significant effort, consider std PVC pipe and fittings glued together. I did this on my previous boat and the smell will never be a problem ever again.

 

[Dougcole]

Doug,
Sorry to hear about your trials and issues with your VF. I too, would be unhappy if that was my experience.
However, I have owned a Vacuflush for 4 seasons now, and it is original on an 18 year old boat. It works great and has not given me any problems. I did change out the duckbills 2 years ago (all 4) as preventative maintenance. I am going to do that again this winter. Duckbills are definitely a maintenance item on any installation that uses them. They are one of the top spots for developing vacuum leaks. I use Rector Seal #5 (yellow) on the hoses. This enables easier installation and removal and I think helps with the seal where the hoses connect to the system. I like to work on the sanitation system when it suits me (in other words when it is the cleanest), and not when the system decides I know the duckbills can probably last longer than 2 years, but I feel that being proactive in this regard is in my best interest. Cleaner for sure

I hope whatever you decide to do works out well for you.

Thank you, Tom. That's a good tip on the rector seal.


I've changed a LOT of duckbills, and completely agree on fixing sanitation issues before they become a problem, that's kind of my standard MO for the whole boat honestly.


It's still possible that there is a pinhole leak in a hose somewhere, but when I jam a tapered plug into the inlet for the vacuum generator it holds vaccum for the same amount of time (15 minutes) as when the hose is attached, which leads me to believe the leak is on the tank somewhere, though all of the components on the tank were replaced last year. Duckbills are two months old.


Prior to this summer I had an extensive set of VF spares, but I've used most of them up trying to find the leaks. I'm reluctant to buy more ($$$) if I am going to switch to a new system.

 

[menzies]

I have to say - I just love that airplane WHOOSH when I press the pedal!

 

[jclays]

Thank you all for your insight and experiences. I now have a better understanding of the situation and will move forward and replace my hoses. They do look old. Hopefully this will solve my elusive odor issue.
thanks again
Jim

 

[menzies]

Thank you all for your insight and experiences. I now have a better understanding of the situation and will move forward and replace my hoses. They do look old. Hopefully this will solve my elusive odor issue.
thanks again
Jim

Jim, also make sure to treat your holding tank and make sure you have good ventilation.

 

[Bacchus]

Thank you all for your insight and experiences. I now have a better understanding of the situation and will move forward and replace my hoses. They do look old. Hopefully this will solve my elusive odor issue.
thanks again
Jim

Jim
Have you confirmed that hose is the source of your odor using the hot water / rag method?
If not its worth doing before you tackle a job that may / may not be the source of your odor.

 

[Bacchus]

I have to say - I just love that airplane WHOOSH when I press the pedal!

I can do without the whoosh or provide the sound affects myself... i love that my macerator works everytime I push the button for 10 +/- yrs without touching it.

I rebuilt my 11 yr old macerating head last year not because of a problem but as PM as we were headed out for a couple months and figured best to do it home on the bench vs in some marina parking lot along the way.

 

[menzies]

I can do without the whoosh or provide the sound affects myself... i love that my macerator works everytime I push the button for 10 +/- yrs without touching it.

I rebuilt my 11 yr old macerating head last year not because of a problem but as PM as we were headed out for a couple months and figured best to do it home on the bench vs in some marina parking lot along the way.

Not targeting you, but why is this always a competition?

I (and others) like my VF head set up.

You (and others) like yours.

When it comes to heads why does every post on liking one have to trigger an opposing post disliking that one and liking another?

And often aggressively?

I don't get it.

 

[menzies]

Not targeting you, but why is this always a competition?

I (and others) like my VF head set up.

You (and others) like yours.

When it comes to heads why does every post on liking one have to trigger an opposing post disliking that one and liking another?

And often aggressively?

I don't get it.

Quoting myself - the only other area of boating that elicits this type of response is types of anchors!!

 

[Bacchus]

Not targeting you, but why is this always a competition?

I (and others) like my VF head set up.

You (and others) like yours.

When it comes to heads why does every post on liking one have to trigger an opposing post disliking that one and liking another?

And often aggressively?

I don't get it.

No competition -
Don't take it personally
I'm happy - you are happy - it can't get much better.
Many come here looking for input - good to hear both sides from users - they get to make their own decisions - no right or wrong...
(unless of course if you have the wrong anchor AND the wrong head

 

[BruceK]

Thanks for the positive VF comments!

We need to counter the derisive VF comments with positive ones when they appear.

No you don`t! It`s not a competition. The only prize is well resolved human excrement. Why get so excited about that.

 

[menzies]

No you don`t! It`s not a competition. The only prize is well resolved human excrement. Why get so excited about that.

Where have I heard that before!

Only to me the prize is no stink from the head and linked plumbing and no stink from the missus!

The latter is the final measurement for me!

 

[syjos]

Thank you, Tom. That's a good tip on the rector seal.


I've changed a LOT of duckbills, and completely agree on fixing sanitation issues before they become a problem, that's kind of my standard MO for the whole boat honestly.


It's still possible that there is a pinhole leak in a hose somewhere, but when I jam a tapered plug into the inlet for the vacuum generator it holds vaccum for the same amount of time (15 minutes) as when the hose is attached, which leads me to believe the leak is on the tank somewhere, though all of the components on the tank were replaced last year. Duckbills are two months old.


Prior to this summer I had an extensive set of VF spares, but I've used most of them up trying to find the leaks. I'm reluctant to buy more ($$$) if I am going to switch to a new system.

Which vacuume generator do you have? VG2 or VG4 The 2 uses 1 1/2" duckbills and has a translucent "L" shaped tank and the 4 uses 2" duckbills.

I have seen leaks from the VG 2 switch if it is pushed all the way in against the switches flange. The opening flares out as it meets the tank and if the switch is pushed all the way in, the inner "O" ring sometimes does not seal properly. Loosen the clamp, pull the switch out a bit and retighten.

Another source of VG leaks is the "O" ring inside the bellow when reassembled. The bellow needs to be pushed on evenly all around. Even a slight uneveness of pushing on the bellow can cause the "O" ring to squish out.

You should coat all "O" rings with lots of Vaseline prior to installation.

I test for leaking tanks by replacing the switch with an old switch, removing the motor from the bellow, plug the inlet and outlet and submerge the tank in a container full of water.

As for connecting sanitation hoses, I coat the inside of the hose with dish washing soap and heat the end until soft prior to installation. I use a heat gun but carefully. Hot water is safer but less convenient method to heat the hose. I tighten the clamps while the hose is still warm and soft but not hot. Use only smooth cuffs, not barbed hose fittings. And non-perforated, rolled edge hose clamps.

For increasing the opening in your holding tank to 1 1/2", use a Uniseal, pictured below.

 

[Beaverlake]

So let’s see.... 1. Proper installation including proper hose sizing and routing; 2. Proper usage including what goes into the bowl; and, 3. Periodic maintenance.

So that’s the secret of success for which type of sanitation system? Gee, I can’t seem to tell the difference....

 

[syjos]

No you don`t! It`s not a competition. The only prize is well resolved human excrement. Why get so excited about that.

How do you interpret competition out of that comment?

I thanked the positive VF comments and encouraged positive comments to counter the negative.

You're reading more out of this than I posted. And certainly more excited than I am.

 

[BruceK]

So let’s see.... 1. Proper installation including proper hose sizing and routing; 2. Proper usage including what goes into the bowl; and, 3. Periodic maintenance.

So that’s the secret of success for which type of sanitation system? Gee, I can’t seem to tell the difference....

The slippery vaseline?...

 

[Dougcole]

Which vacuume generator do you have? VG2 or VG4 The 2 uses 1 1/2" duckbills and has a translucent "L" shaped tank and the 4 uses 2" duckbills.

I have seen leaks from the VG 2 switch if it is pushed all the way in against the switches flange. The opening flares out as it meets the tank and if the switch is pushed all the way in, the inner "O" ring sometimes does not seal properly. Loosen the clamp, pull the switch out a bit and retighten.

Another source of VG leaks is the "O" ring inside the bellow when reassembled. The bellow needs to be pushed on evenly all around. Even a slight uneveness of pushing on the bellow can cause the "O" ring to squish out.

You should coat all "O" rings with lots of Vaseline prior to installation.

I test for leaking tanks by replacing the switch with an old switch, removing the motor from the bellow, plug the inlet and outlet and submerge the tank in a container full of water.

As for connecting sanitation hoses, I coat the inside of the hose with dish washing soap and heat the end until soft prior to installation. I use a heat gun but carefully. Hot water is safer but less convenient method to heat the hose. I tighten the clamps while the hose is still warm and soft but not hot. Use only smooth cuffs, not barbed hose fittings. And non-perforated, rolled edge hose clamps.

For increasing the opening in your holding tank to 1 1/2", use a Uniseal, pictured below.

I have a VG4 tank using the 2" duckbills, though it has a different pump motor than original. I don't recall which pump it is off the top of my head and I'm not at the boat.


I replaced the bellows on my system back in July, including the O ring. I used vaseline on the O ring originally, as we were in the Bahamas and that is what I had on hand, then cleaned it and switched to silicone grease when I got home on the advice of Environmental Marine. Could be that I didn't get it in evenly, hard to say. I tried the shaving cream test on all of the seals on the tank and couldn't see any result.



I had one of the screws that holds the bellows down strip out, and we thought that may be what it was, so I removed it, drilled it out and replaced it with a through bolt, again, at the advice of EM. That wasn't it either.



My hoses slide on and off the tank pretty easily at this point as I have removed them so many times. I have perforated hose clamps on them. But wouldn't putting the plug in the inlet to the tank eliminate the possible issue of a leak in the hose or the hose connection?


A leak downstream from the tank (in between the vacuum tank and the holding tank) wouldn't cause a vacuum leak, correct?

 

[syjos]

But wouldn't putting the plug in the inlet to the tank eliminate the possible issue of a leak in the hose or the hose connection?

That test is for the tank only.

For a complete system test, you need a Dometic Vacuume Tester, picture below. The shaving cream method does not always pinpoint the leak.

When the pump is put back together, sometimes the O rings on the lid or inside the bellows will get twisted. Lots of vaseline on the O ring prevents twisting.

The duckbill's need to be vaselined before installing too.

When the bellow is pushed onto the lid, it has to be pushed in evenly and flat or the O ring inside the bellow will distort.

The vacuum gauge tester will locate the leak if the shaving cream method was not successful.

If the bowl holds water for several hours, then the ball seal is fine. Turn off the water and Vacu Flush pump. Open the ball and insert the testers cone into the hole at the base. Smear dish wash soap on the cone first. Turn on the pump and let it cycle. If it holds vacuum for 10 minutes or longer, the problem is at the toilet. Water valve, pedal shaft seals, bowl/base seal or flange seal.

If it doesn't hold vacuum for 10 minutes the leak is downstream. Disconnect the hose at the pump and insert the soaped testers cone into the pump inlet and start the pump. Make sure pump has water in it to wet the duck bills. If it does not holds vacuum, the leak is in the pump. If it holds vacuum, the leak is between pump and toilet.

Connect pump and test vacuum at the inlet to the vacuum tank with tester. If it holds vacuum, the leak is in the line between tank and toilet. If not, the leak is in the tank - vacuume switch or hose connection.

To check for leaks in the hose, I plug both ends with home made adapters, one end has an air chuck to hook up a compressor. Charge the hose with 10 to 20 psi and check connections with liquid soap.

On hard to locate leaks, I tested pumps and vacuum tanks for leaks by plugging outlets, removing motor, connecting a compressor to them and 10 to 20 psi pressure to locate a leak by submerging in water.

If you get a vacuum tester, don't be concerned about the vacuum reading. The gauge is not accurate. It is used to see if the system holds vacuum or not.

 

[Dougcole]

But wouldn't putting the plug in the inlet to the tank eliminate the possible issue of a leak in the hose or the hose connection?

That test is for the tank only.

For a complete system test, you need a Dometic Vacuume Tester, picture below. The shaving cream method does not always pinpoint the leak.

When the pump is put back together, sometimes the O rings on the lid or inside the bellows will get twisted. Lots of vaseline on the O ring prevents twisting.

The duckbill's need to be vaselined before installing too.

When the bellow is pushed onto the lid, it has to be pushed in evenly and flat or the O ring inside the bellow will distort.

The vacuum gauge tester will locate the leak if the shaving cream method was not successful.

If the bowl holds water for several hours, then the ball seal is fine. Turn off the water and Vacu Flush pump. Open the ball and insert the testers cone into the hole at the base. Smear dish wash soap on the cone first. Turn on the pump and let it cycle. If it holds vacuum for 10 minutes or longer, the problem is at the toilet. Water valve, pedal shaft seals, bowl/base seal or flange seal.

If it doesn't hold vacuum for 10 minutes the leak is downstream. Disconnect the hose at the pump and insert the soaped testers cone into the pump inlet and start the pump. Make sure pump has water in it to wet the duck bills. If it does not holds vacuum, the leak is in the pump. If it holds vacuum, the leak is between pump and toilet.

Connect pump and test vacuum at the inlet to the vacuum tank with tester. If it holds vacuum, the leak is in the line between tank and toilet. If not, the leak is in the tank - vacuume switch or hose connection.

To check for leaks in the hose, I plug both ends with home made adapters, one end has an air chuck to hook up a compressor. Charge the hose with 10 to 20 psi and check connections with liquid soap.

On hard to locate leaks, I tested pumps and vacuum tanks for leaks by plugging outlets, removing motor, connecting a compressor to them and 10 to 20 psi pressure to locate a leak by submerging in water.

If you get a vacuum tester, don't be concerned about the vacuum reading. The gauge is not accurate. It is used to see if the system holds vacuum or not.

Thanks.


When we were in the Bahamas in July and August it would only hold pressure for a minute or so. I changed the duckbills, bellows and bowl seals over there with no improvement. The toilet holds water indefinitely.



When we got back, I used the "plug the bowl" method and found a leak around the shaft on the flush pedal. I replaced the entire ball/pedal assembly. At that point the system went from holding vacuum for 75 seconds to holding vacuum for 15 minutes. Clearly, I had more than one leak.


I then disconnected the inlet hose from the pressure tank and plugged it there. No change in performance, it holds a vacuum for 15 minutes. Therefore, I feel that the leak is in the tank somewhere. I removed the bellows again, regreased it, removed and regreased the duckbills, added the aforementioned through bolt, removed the switch, greased it and reinstalled. Tightened and regreased all the pipe fittings. No change.

 

[Dougcole]

Oh, I also replaced the floor flange seal when I redid the ball assembly.


I took the entire tank assembly to Environmental Marine in the spring of 2019, as I was having leak issues then too. They replaced the tank, but kept my old motor and bellows. They replaced everything else on the tank including the switch.


I have heard from people I trust that their VF will hold pressure for 24 hours or more, and I believe them. But in the 7 years we have owned the boat mine has never held pressure for more than half an hour or so, even when it is working perfectly.


At some point I will give up on it, I'm very close to that option right now. Though they are not permeated yet, sometime soon the 15 year old sanitation hoses in our boat will need replacement. This is a big job on a Mainship 400 requiring, among other things, a removal of the water heater and cutting a hole in the deck below it. Access to the hose from the toilet to the pressure tank is very poor. If I go to all of that work to replace the hose, I'm not going to stick with a suspect toilet like my VF. I'll replace it with a Sea Era, and make one continuous hose run from the toilet to the holding tank, eliminating the VF pressure tank. That will gain me some space and some peace of mind.

 

[catalinajack]

Here is a question. Why is it that we see so very many posts about vacuflush heads, how to fix, how to maintain, etc. But we rarely, very rarely, perhaps never, see posts about failed electric maceration heads. Just asking.

 

[Comodave]

Here is a question. Why is it that we see so very many posts about vacuflush heads, how to fix, how to maintain, etc. But we rarely, very rarely, perhaps never, see posts about failed electric maceration heads. Just asking.

And if there is a problem with a macerating head it is straight forward, not chasing vacuum leaks for years...

 

[syjos]

Here is a question. Why is it that we see so very many posts about vacuflush heads, how to fix, how to maintain, etc. But we rarely, very rarely, perhaps never, see posts about failed electric maceration heads. Just asking.

That's because there are so many more VF systems out there than modern grinders due to the length of time VF has been marketed.

The modern grinders, such as Tecmas, Masterflushes, Marine Elegence etc are fairley new to the market compared to the VF so the long term service issues have not surfaced. And since they are fairly new, their market saturation have not reached the same numbers as VF. And there are 3 to 4 manufacturers of modern grinders versus one VF, the issues posted on TF is spread over the various brands.

Plus these existing VF systems are approaching 15 to 25 years of use so require service or total build.

And a lot of boatowners inproperly operate their VF or haven't been servicing their VF. After all, many new boat owners don't know what they inherited from the previous owner so come onto TF to learn more about VF.

We will see how much service modern grinders will require when they approach the age of installed VF.