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Old 08-03-2020, 06:16 PM   #81
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KO means Kills Odors. Not sure on the other.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:13 PM   #82
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I thought that you could only use electosan units in certain areas. I didn't think they are allowed on the great lakes or river systems and Gulf coast and Florida etc. Maybe not Puget Sound ether. Last I heard they were not to be used where pumping overboard is not allowed. Even though from what I read what is pumped overboard is pretty sanitary.
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Old 08-03-2020, 08:08 PM   #83
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The discharge of treated waste from a USCG certified Type I or Type II MSD (ElectroScan and PuraSan are the most popular) is legal in far more waters than the enviro-zealots lead people to believe. Yes, the Great Lakes are NDZ and have been since before the US enacted any marine sanitation laws. And although all closed inland lakes are NDZs, the discharge of treated waste is legal in all the navigable ("capable of supporting commercial vessels and provide egress to open sea") inland rivers except for a few municipal reservoirs.

East coast: Although New England is a hotbed of NDZs, and so is LIS....but once you reach the Chesapeake Bay, the discharge of treated waste is legal in all its waters except for one very small harbor--Herring Bay and a couple of well-meaning but misguided marinas. NC and part of VA coastal waters are NDZs, but from NC south there are no more on whole ICW until you reach the Keys--one of only two NDZs on the whole Gulf of Mexico...Destin Harbor is the only one.

On the west coast, SoCal is another hotbed of NDZs, but once you get north of Santa Barbara, there's only one on the whole west coast (Richardson Bay off SF Bay) till you get to Puget Sound, which a bunch of enviro-thugs managed turn into an NDZ less than 2 years ago. Treatment is legal in most of British Columbia, btw.

You'll find a complete list of federally mandated NDZs on this EPA website EPA NDZ list by state (if it ain't on this list, it ain't an NDZ unless it's a marina...they get to make their own rules as long as it doesn't violate federal law).


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Old 08-03-2020, 08:26 PM   #84
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Frank asked me what I'd recommend now.



That depends on several things including whether the boat is power or sail, boat size (not all toilets are appropriate for every boat), who'll be using the toilets--only "seasoned salts" or a lot of landlubber guests and/or maybe growing kids, available power resources (mostly but not entirely applies to sailboat owners), if the owners wants a toilet that uses fresh water, does the boat carry enough to spare about 3 gal/person/day, the owners budget for a new toilet.


That's the long winded way of saying that there is no "one size fits" all answer to your question.



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Old 08-03-2020, 08:37 PM   #85
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Great contributions from TF posts. Thanks! Quite an education, and great to have a pro sharing. I bought a 2005 boat with VF, tiny holding tank, 3 years ago.. Airlines should call Peggy! Seems wise for me to buy her book rather than wait for problems.
There are a bunch of good reasons to buy my book, but not if you're looking for VF info 'cuz for political reasons I didn't include any except the trouble-shooting guide. That's something I intend to correct in the next update.

However, I have written a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that explains how it works (an amazing number of owners think they do but don't) and how much water it actually needs to keep working reliably and trouble-free...and I'll be glad to send it to you if you'll send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).


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Old 08-04-2020, 06:34 AM   #86
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Maybe this is too redneck for some. My wife and I use the aft cabin head for pee only. We use the forward head which is almost right over the holding tank for number two. We donít flush but once a day. Between uses we close the well fitting door and keep the port open. We collect soiled wipe papers in a hanging plastic bag. I clean Very well the bowl once a day using the shower hose for water.
The upshot is we use very little water per day which stretches out the time between pumpouts greatly.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:12 AM   #87
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I have had two buts with vacuum flush heads that I found to be very reliable with very little maintenance. They had 40 gallon holding tanks which gave a decent amount of time between pump outs: more than a week with heavy use. While I found the duck bills had a very long life before needing replacement, @ 15 years, reading other posts I think the fresh water hardness is probably a significant factor. We have very soft water while I suspect most have relatively hard water. I can't imagine replacing a working head system with a new type is worth the effort and time and I have no experience doing so.
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:04 AM   #88
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Maybe this is too redneck for some. My wife and I use the aft cabin head for pee only. We use the forward head which is almost right over the holding tank for number two. We donít flush but once a day. Between uses we close the well fitting door and keep the port open. We collect soiled wipe papers in a hanging plastic bag. I clean Very well the bowl once a day using the shower hose for water.
The upshot is we use very little water per day which stretches out the time between pumpouts greatly.
You should consider replacing both toilets with "MSD" portapotties. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space or using more than about a quart of water/day.



Check out the Dometic/SeaLand 975 MSD SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD



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Old 08-04-2020, 11:49 AM   #89
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Finally got around to buying the book. Been meaning to for a couple years. Need it now because I'm planning a head replacement (pulling Jabsco Quiet Flush with Raritan ME). Several reasons but mostly to facilitate guests ease of successful use.

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Old 04-04-2021, 10:18 PM   #90
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Our vacuuflush system is fairly old but works fine. They're actually fairly simple once you understand them. However, the idea that they only us a cup or so of water is not exactly true. You have to put more down with 'solid' matter. Therefore they're not a cure all for a small holding tank. As for how the system works, I do like it.
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Old 04-05-2021, 05:20 AM   #91
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"However, the idea that they only us a cup or so of water is not exactly true. You have to put more down with 'solid' matter. Therefore they're not a cure all for a small holding tank. As for how the system works, I do like it."

To use the least amount of water remember Gravity is your friend.

The the Dometic/SeaLand 975 MSD SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD uses gravity to move the solid stuff as does every RV toilet that is properly installed .

IF only the boat assemblers understood the concept we could do away with complex, expensive maint requiring waste systems.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:56 AM   #92
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A vacyflush system indeed is complex, expensive maintain, and, I will add, breaks down comparatively more often. A Marine Elegance macerating head is none of those.
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"However, the idea that they only us a cup or so of water is not exactly true. You have to put more down with 'solid' matter. Therefore they're not a cure all for a small holding tank. As for how the system works, I do like it."

To use the least amount of water remember Gravity is your friend.

The the Dometic/SeaLand 975 MSD SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD uses gravity to move the solid stuff as does every RV toilet that is properly installed .

IF only the boat assemblers understood the concept we could do away with complex, expensive maint requiring waste systems.
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Old 04-05-2021, 09:35 AM   #93
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OP, do you have room for an electrosan treatment system?? Then you could just pump overboard. You might even save some money.
The OP's location is shown as Tacoma WA. Currently waste treated by type 1 and type II systems are restricted through the Puget Sound-wide NDZ designation. Several organizations have been pushing back on the region wide NDZ with the Recreational Boating Association of Washington (RBAW) recently asked to provide comment for a lawsuit filed by the American Waterway Operators (AWO):

https://rbaw.org/resources/Documents...01-27-2021.pdf

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Old 04-05-2021, 11:09 AM   #94
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Peggy we lived as full time and occasional guests with a elegance and a second manual head (rarely used). No troubles as ran RO for the heads so never any treatments. When in New England simply went offshore often enough that didn’t use pumpout stations either.

Still, surprised by you’re failing to mention incinerating toilets on this thread. Like to know your take on them. Unlike sailboats many long range powerboats don’t have the same need for a strict electrical energy budget. There are several vendors of these devices with a long track record of using them in small off grid cabins, RVs and commercial fish boats. Do you think they’re a viable option for recreational trawlers?
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:41 PM   #95
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Incinolet - I N C I N O L E T - seems to be the only one that actively promotes their toilets. Note that it needs 120 or 240 volt ac power and I'd take hard look at installation, use and maintenance instructions Incinolet owners manual and then decide if you think it's suitable for recreational boats.


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Old 04-05-2021, 03:02 PM   #96
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Did check that out.
For a full cycle takes 1 1/2 to 2 kw over 75 minutes. Can have multiple donations during a cycle. Given gastrocolic reflex in most people perhaps two maybe three cycles would be necessary in a day. Even when not underway or having the genset on many carbon or lithium banks could handle that draw. Seems electrical requirements would be within limits of many larger craft. Would think there could be an issue with combustion stack in multilevel vessels but commonly the heads aren’t under the pilot house so possibly not a no go situation for all.
I obviously have no experience with one and wondering if you do and what’s your take on them. We’ve been fortunate with our lifestyle not impeded by no dumping zones to date. So interest is academic for us. Still, truly enjoy you insights and you’re definitely the guru.
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:09 PM   #97
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I've had no hands-on experience with them, only occasional reports from owners who've claimed to love it, and a couple of marina managers and others who've had to live downwind of the stack who didn't.

I do know there's a common misconception among people who've only heard about incinerating toilets that each "flush" is instantly reduced to ash in a "whoosh" of heat...when in fact the burn can take several hours and still leave un-cremated solid waste. And I know that the key to odorless--or at least greatly reduced odor--is frequent cleaning of the catalytic converter in the stack.

All of which should explain why I leave the decision whether to install one on a recreational vessel up to those who are considering it.

Thanks for the kind words!

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Old 04-05-2021, 04:17 PM   #98
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Weíve been fortunate with our lifestyle not impeded by no dumping zones to date.

Even inshore, needing to get pumped out isn't a big deal. Just have to size the tank so it's not an annoyingly frequent occurrence. Unless you're staying put for long periods of time in an area without a pumpout boat, if you can go 1 - 2 weeks between pumpouts, you'll usually have a convenient opportunity before the tank is full.
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Old 04-05-2021, 06:37 PM   #99
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When in Rhode Island we buy a sticker. They give us a flag. If we want a pump out would put out the flag. They would see the flag and they would come by and do it. We don’t even need to be there. The ultimate in convenience. But if we go just about anywhere at some point we’re well outside 3 miles. So haven’t had the need to pump out. Last boat had two 50g holding tanks. Did pump out a few times. Would fill tanks 1/2 full with fresh water and go out on a bumpy day. Idea was to agitate the sludge off the bottom and prevent future troubles. Then come back to the pier with the pump out on it and immediately pump our boat out. Don’t know if that was worthwhile but seemed like a good thing to do periodically. When in a slip never thought it much of an issue to walk to the marina’s bathroom.
When in the Caribbean this issue doesn’t exist. Out of curtesy never left the through hulls open and only used our heads for showers or the sink when in a slip. You pay for water and you don’t want to run your watermaker as there may be fuel or oil in the water.
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Old 04-05-2021, 08:37 PM   #100
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I've used an incinolet at a family camp where sewer wasn't nearby and septic wasn't an option. It was more trouble than it was worth. The exhaust. Training the males how to use it. Cleaning and repairing. Concerns about the 75 minute burn if no one is around to keep an eye on it. I can't imagine managing one on a boat.
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