Vaccination passports

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What about people who've already had it? They've got the best immunization possible. I wonder of that will get you a COVID passport?...
Only today I heard from Dr. Norman Swan, quite well regarded here and up to date on matters Covid, that the immune response from vaccination is much stronger than from having had Covid. Surprised me.
 
Maybe we'll have gold stars on our forehead.

You're right that it's not 100% but I'd still rather travel with one vaccinated than not and definitely want my travel companions tested. We had 15 or so at our house today, but all have been tested regularly and most recently within the last week. Still not 100% but a good chance of protection plus all wear masks anytime they're in public and socially distant. The more we do to protect ourselves, the safer we'll be, but we'll be subject to Coronavirus for years to come in some degree.

Why? Because the government tells you so? Who's making the money in all of this? Gotta follow the money.....
 
Only today I heard from Dr. Norman Swan, quite well regarded here and up to date on matters Covid, that the immune response from vaccination is much stronger than from having had Covid. Surprised me.

It's believed stronger as in longer duration while the duration of the vaccine is still to be determined. The other advantage is that the vaccine will likely protect against strains that having had Covid 19 does not. This is why the vaccine is encouraged even for those who have had the virus.
 
It's believed stronger as in longer duration while the duration of the vaccine is still to be determined. The other advantage is that the vaccine will likely protect against strains that having had Covid 19 does not. This is why the vaccine is encouraged even for those who have had the virus.

It's believed.....

Will Likely.......

Vaccine encouraged.....

So no absolute facts as of yet. We will have to wait for "Long term" affects
 
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Wife is now on the phone with a friend whose D-I-L has just emailed that she is off work now, having just tested positive for Covid.
She has had 2 shots, Phizer, as she is a Covid ward nurse.
No guarantees.
 
Wife is now on the phone with a friend whose D-I-L has just emailed that she is off work now, having just tested positive for Covid.
She has had 2 shots, Phizer, as she is a Covid ward nurse.
No guarantees.
Unfortunate. Yes, no guarantees, but a good opportunity to assess reduced severity.
 
Basically there are those of you that believe this vaccine is a miracle and is the cure to the China flu. I do not. You have a right to take the vaccine. I respect that.

But that doesn't mean that I have to follow you. Again I have been involved in these type of experimental vaccines and I have no trust in the CDC and the "so called" experts.
 
Wife is now on the phone with a friend whose D-I-L has just emailed that she is off work now, having just tested positive for Covid.
She has had 2 shots, Phizer, as she is a Covid ward nurse.
No guarantees.

Could be two possibilities, both reasonable. She was infected before the full vaccine effect or she's among the 5% ineffective rate. Never been a claim of 100%. Hopefully it does make her case milder. Please keep us informed.
 
Basically there are those of you that believe this vaccine is a miracle and is the cure to the China flu. I do not. You have a right to take the vaccine. I respect that.

But that doesn't mean that I have to follow you. Again I have been involved in these type of experimental vaccines and I have no trust in the CDC and the "so called" experts.
Fair enough. But, it would be appropriate that unvaccinated, you take other steps to avoid contracting Covid, and passing it on to others. And inform others for their safety, when vaccination becomes highly prevalent and largely expected/assumed, that you are not vaccinated.
 
Fair enough. But, it would be appropriate that unvaccinated, you take other steps to avoid contracting Covid, and passing it on to others. And inform others for their safety, when vaccination becomes highly prevalent and largely expected/assumed, that you are not vaccinated.


Would that not be segregation? So far I have tested negative twice. By all accounts here on TF with all you vaccinated, even if I test positive you are in the clear right? :whistling:

I am not going to inform anyone of my medical condition. For someone to ask or mandate it is a violation of U.S. Federal law. aka HIPPA
 
And are you an MD?

He wasn't giving you HIS opinion, he was quoting from a Mayo Clinic article so his medical background is irrelevant. If you read the article it lists the references at the end. They are the likes of: the Journal of the American Medical Association, National Institute for Health, CDC, etc. I think the medical information contained in that is as sound as you can get.

Doctors aren't any different than any other occupation. There are all sorts of Doctors with all sorts of viewpoints. Here's a story about an MD that thinks the earth is flat.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/some-people-actually-believe-the-earth-is-flat-heres-why-2016-9

Here's one that mentions a Doctor who thinks the moon landing was faked:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/os-ne-apollo-11-faked-20190707-khypcq54wrdhdlwovhvpgfc3aa-story.html

My point is that one doctor can be wrong about anything. But a group of doctors, scientists and analysts is much more likely to be be right about something. I think this is even more likely when the subject matter is relatively new. So when a group of people get together to study something new in detail, I think their knowledge of that particular subject will be better than your average General Practitioner who may have graduated Med School 20 years ago.

The CDC recommends everyone get vaccinated. This is based on the best and most current research on Covid. There is no way I would give more credibility to a few individual doctors here or there than the entire assembly of medical scientists at the CDC.
 
Would that not be segregation? So far I have tested negative twice. By all accounts here on TF with all you vaccinated, even if I test positive you are in the clear right? :whistling:

I am not going to inform anyone of my medical condition. For someone to ask or mandate it is a violation of U.S. Federal law. aka HIPPA

Actually not protected by HIPAA and not any form of illegal segregation. As to those of us who were vaccinated being in the clear, only to a certain percentage of clear and perhaps we want more. Requiring vaccines is nothing new and therefore many legal precedents. Schools require many which ultimately carry over and protect us at all ages. Hospitals, doctors offices, nursing homes, assisted living and other businesses require flu vaccines unless an allergy in which case masks are required.
 
Actually not protected by HIPAA and not any form of illegal segregation. As to those of us who were vaccinated being in the clear, only to a certain percentage of clear and perhaps we want more. Requiring vaccines is nothing new and therefore many legal precedents. Schools require many which ultimately carry over and protect us at all ages. Hospitals, doctors offices, nursing homes, assisted living and other businesses require flu vaccines unless an allergy in which case masks are required.
Sorry you are incorrect. HIPPA protects the privacy of medical records.
 
After 10 minutes of Googling.......it looks like an employer can't mandate a Covid vaccination because it has been approved under an Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA and is therefore considered experimental. Once it receives full approval it could be required by employers but the few articles I read suggested it would probably not be required of the general public, but could be required for schools and medical facilities. There is some ambiguity because school attendance has been the main vehicle for encouraging most people to get vaccines but the current vaccines aren't approved for children.
 
Wife is now on the phone with a friend whose D-I-L has just emailed that she is off work now, having just tested positive for Covid.
She has had 2 shots, Phizer, as she is a Covid ward nurse.
No guarantees.

Getting the vaccine does not mean you can't test positive. The point of the vaccine is to for you not to get sick or less sick than if you were unvaccinated. It is not a magic shield that will prevent the covid virus from getting into your system. The nasal swab test just shows that the virus is present in your sinuses.
 
Trust your doctor? Maybe. Each graduating class had one doctor who graduated at the bottom of the class. Do you know your doctor's gpa?
 
Well my numbers are off. see attached. I posted this earlier, plus the two postings above.

https://alaskawatchman.com/2021/02/...fered-adverse-reactions-after-covid-vaccines/
Tom, second sentence in your link click on "five of these people died".
It goes to the source of the Feb 2nd article which is now updated to 10 died as of Feb 18.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php

I admire your priciples, stay safe.
I hope that statistics will show the risk is less than the alternative.
 
Well with all due respect, I am not a sheep.

I ask questions. I have been involved with experimental vaccines. Not in a good way.

Have you been in the military?

When I was in the Navy, you either took all shots or got a court marshal

Read the shipping articles we signed.
 
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Basically there are those of you that believe this vaccine is a miracle and is the cure to the China flu. I do not. You have a right to take the vaccine. I respect that.
Sadly, it seems that respect is a one way street.



Our reaction to this virus is far scarier than the virus. This thread is a great exmaple of that.
 
Yes, of course. What say you if the top graduate had a 4.0 and the bottom guy a 3.95?
Trust your doctor? Maybe. Each graduating class had one doctor who graduated at the bottom of the class. Do you know your doctor's gpa?
 
I talked with my son yesterday. He just reenlisted in the Navy. The Navy is not requiring vaccinations, at least in his command. But, requests for leave and travel outside the immediate area of the command are not being approved because, upon return, that sailor would have to quarantine for 14 days. Guess what. Sailors are lining up for their shots. As for employers not being able, by law, I guess, to require vaccinations, what recourse would an employee have if said employer required a vaccination or not get paid? Get a lawyer?

If I owned a business I would require vaccinations. Refuse, you get fired. There are plenty of folks out there looking for work.
After 10 minutes of Googling.......it looks like an employer can't mandate a Covid vaccination because it has been approved under an Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA and is therefore considered experimental. Once it receives full approval it could be required by employers but the few articles I read suggested it would probably not be required of the general public, but could be required for schools and medical facilities. There is some ambiguity because school attendance has been the main vehicle for encouraging most people to get vaccines but the current vaccines aren't approved for children.
 
Why would I care if I tested positive and had been vaccinated? Or, if I, by long chance, got a bit ill. No, sir, I will be fully vaccinated - I have a first appointment on Thursday - by the end of March. Ollie-ollie-in-free for me. I will continue to wear a mask for as long as it is recommended in order to protect the unvaccinated.
Getting the vaccine does not mean you can't test positive. The point of the vaccine is to for you not to get sick or less sick than if you were unvaccinated. It is not a magic shield that will prevent the covid virus from getting into your system. The nasal swab test just shows that the virus is present in your sinuses.
 
1) Not even doctors have the right to force a patient into their view of care. There is no way any politician should have that right. And it is equally immoral to use soft force of denying liberties or imposing taxes to softly force it. A choice that is no choice is no choice.

2) Arguments of "the greatest good for the greatest number" is a socialism argument. Nope. Never going to buy that.

3) A rushed technology using new techniques isn't something appealing. When more proven, sure. Maybe.
 
But that doesn't mean that I have to follow you. Again I have been involved in these type of experimental vaccines and I have no trust in the CDC and the "so called" experts.

I respect your opinion based on your experience. I'd most likely feel the same way.

Trust your doctor? Maybe. Each graduating class had one doctor who graduated at the bottom of the class. Do you know your doctor's gpa?

Not important in my opinion. There are many other attributes that trump gpa.
(no reference intended)
 
In a ranting mood . . .

Could there possibly be a more insidiously perfect disease than Covid for the times we live in?

—It doesn’t kill most people, so anyone can discount their personal risk.

—When it does kill, it’s often older people or those with pre-existing conditions, so healthy people of a certain age can rationalize that this is only the natural progression of things.

—The serious long-term disabilities it causes are infrequent enough to allow many people to justify rolling the dice.

—It’s a novel virus, so it’s taken medical science some time—including some early inconsistent advice—to develop a consensus about best methods to combat it . . . which allows honest skeptics, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxers to pounce on every trivial inconsistency as proof that the science is muddled.

—It most likely originated in a foreign country, which allows xenophobes to first deny that it’s here in the U.S. and then to absolve the initial cluster-f**ked response of accountability.

—Combating it requires some level of inconvenience, care for others and personal sacrifice to protect the most vulnerable . . . which many people apparently believe triggers an existential choice between freedom from oppression or freedom from “just a bad case of the flu.”

—Getting life back to normal will require nations and businesses to assure their citizens and customers that they are being protected from exposure or reinfection . . . but vaccination cards? Why, we’re just letting the camel’s nose under the tent!

In a just world, Darwinism would eventually sort out who’s right and who’s wrong about a killer pandemic. People would make their choices and live with the consequences without harming their families or neighbors. But there’s nothing just about Covid; it’s too perfectly tailored for the 21st century, almost as if it’s evolved to attack us on both our psychological and cellular vulnerabilities. Only in our befuddled world can a virus kill 2.5 million—half a million in the US alone—close international borders, hammer economies, destroy industries, shutter schools and sports franchises and there still be serious arguments over something as basic as the value of vaccination cards.
 
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Basically there are those of you that believe this vaccine is a miracle and is the cure to the China flu. I do not. You have a right to take the vaccine. I respect that.

But that doesn't mean that I have to follow you. Again I have been involved in these type of experimental vaccines and I have no trust in the CDC and the "so called" experts.

I think that a lot of our fellow citizens hope that these experimental vaccines are the cure to the China flu. There is very little evidence that they are, and even less evidence that they are safe enough for widespread use in our population.

What really concerns me is the blind willingness of so many to embrace experimental vaccines so safe you have to be forced to take them for a disease so deadly you have to be tested to know if you have it. C'mon, folks, we are giving away our way of life for a disease with a 99.97% survival rate.

Sadly, most of the rabid enthusiasts for these experimental vaccines know exactly why they are cheering about them. Not letting this crisis go to waste is clearly a political weapon. What happened to liberty as a core American value?
 
After 10 minutes of Googling.......it looks like an employer can't mandate a Covid vaccination because it has been approved under an Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA and is therefore considered experimental. Once it receives full approval it could be required by employers but the few articles I read suggested it would probably not be required of the general public, but could be required for schools and medical facilities. There is some ambiguity because school attendance has been the main vehicle for encouraging most people to get vaccines but the current vaccines aren't approved for children.

That is actually very much in debate still. There is no doubt that if it was FDA approved it could be mandated by employers. However, many legal experts feel that even under the EUA, it could be mandated in certain situations where it was considered necessary to protect others. That will remain a matter of differing opinions.
 
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