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02-28-2021, 07:11 PM
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#41
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
Sorry to disagree. Even Dr. Faucci has changed his position several times. He also has no authority to make policy.
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Science does change as time goes by and more is learned. If he never updated his position then he would not be listening to the research and new found data. Most people’s opinion and positions change as they learn. Never said he was making policy...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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02-28-2021, 07:22 PM
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#42
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
Science does change as time goes by and more is learned. If he never updated his position then he would not be listening to the research and new found data. Most people’s opinion and positions change as they learn. Never said he was making policy...
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See post 39
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02-28-2021, 07:27 PM
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#43
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Guru
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
I've done some research and there are other doctors and scientists who agree with my doctor, but they are quickly shutdown. This can be proven by the 120 folks in Alaska that have died due to the vaccine. But you don't hear that in the news.
Remember, the vaccine is not a "cure." It reduces the severity of the flu if you get it.
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Exactly right.
The opposition to these experimental vaccines is abundant, but it is quickly shut down in some circles because it is a good crisis that is going to waste. Time will tell whether these experimental vaccines have any efficacy, but you will have to look very hard for the evidence if they do not. Remember, humanity survived the Spanish Flu. We will survive this too.
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02-28-2021, 07:37 PM
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#44
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas
Exactly right.
The opposition to these experimental vaccines is abundant, but it is quickly shut down in some circles because it is a good crisis that is going to waste. Time will tell whether these experimental vaccines have any efficacy, but you will have to look very hard for the evidence if they do not. Remember, humanity survived the Spanish Flu. We will survive this too.
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Good point. These are experimental vaccines. We will survive.
So now we look at the money the vaccine companies and others are making. Pharma is getting rich.
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02-28-2021, 07:39 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
City: Carefree, AZ and Ft. Myers Beach, FL
Vessel Name: Sea-N-Stars
Vessel Model: 1990 49' Albin
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 304
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ASD, your doctor is definitely NOT alone. Any implication that he/she is going against the belief of "all the other doctors and scientists" is both condescending and embarrassingly uninformed.
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02-28-2021, 09:22 PM
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#46
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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Well it’s a free country.
Sometimes I wonder how we got this far.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-28-2021, 09:34 PM
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#47
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Well with all due respect, I am not a sheep.
I ask questions. I have been involved with experimental vaccines. Not in a good way.
Have you been in the military?
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02-28-2021, 10:07 PM
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#48
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Guru
City: Southwest MI
Vessel Name: Sobelle
Vessel Model: C-Dory 22 Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
Sorry to disagree. Even Dr. Faucci has changed his position several times. He also has no authority to make policy.
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@Alaskan Sea-Duction: I'm sure that are a number of things that you learned school in science class as scientific facts have since be found to be completely false or at least partially incorrect. For example, Until 1982 it was believed that peptic ulcers were caused by stress. Scientific study and experimentation discovered that they were actually caused by certain bacteria. Guy won a Nobel prize for that one.
As for Corona virus vaccination passports, that ship sailed a long time ago with the requirement for vaccinations against various communicable diseases before travel. The Corona virus is just another communicable disease. The government of any country has an obligation to protect their citizens. Saying the any person cannot enter their country without the appropriate vaccinations is well within their purview. People who cannot take a required vaccine have to accept the fact that there are some places they cannot go.
As for hotels and the like requiring a vaccination, there is a difference between asking someone whether they have cancer or corona virus. The corona virus can be transmitted to others and cause serious or fatal illness. While cancer is a serious illness, it is not a communicable disease. The presence of a cancer patient in a hotel is not able to cause others to get cancer.
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02-28-2021, 10:09 PM
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#49
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
I've done some research and there are other doctors and scientists who agree with my doctor, but they are quickly shutdown. This can be proven by the 120 folks in Alaska that have died due to the vaccine. But you don't hear that in the news.
Remember, the vaccine is not a "cure." It reduces the severity of the flu if you get it.
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Interesting since you are from Alaska and you know that I am in Alaska as well.
Please post a link to that, I'm interested in reading about it.
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02-28-2021, 10:27 PM
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#50
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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This is the headline I found when i searched online from the Anchorage Daily News newspaper. While I am not familiar with Alaska papers I didn’t find any credible news sources that said people had died from the vaccine. They did say that some social sites had made unfounded claims.
Did 5 people really die from COVID-19 vaccines in Alaska? No, state officials say. None did.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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02-28-2021, 10:27 PM
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#51
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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If Alaska lost 120 due to the effects of covid vaccine, we must be losing an awful lot of us across the globe right about now. One heack of a coverup I'd say. Glad I wasn't one of 'em.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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02-28-2021, 10:30 PM
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#52
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Guru
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,019
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If I got the flu, I had an over 99% chnce to recover from it]
Do yourself a favour and research post covid medical problems, about 30 % experience problems, sometimes big problems after they had covid that didn't really hit them that hard. Here I'll see if I can find something for you:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects
COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.
By Mayo Clinic Staff
Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.
These people sometimes describe themselves as "long haulers" and the condition has been called post-COVID-19 syndrome or "long COVID-19."
Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms, but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Cough
Joint pain
Chest pain
Other long-term signs and symptoms may include:
Muscle pain or headache
Fast or pounding heartbeat
Loss of smell or taste
Memory, concentration or sleep problems
Rash or hair loss
Video: Long-term symptoms, complications of COVID-19
Organ damage caused by COVID-19
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:
Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems
COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.
Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
Problems with mood and fatigue
People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.
Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown
Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.
Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19.
It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.
PS: I'd trust the Mayo Clinic over your doctor.
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02-28-2021, 10:46 PM
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#53
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn48
If I got the flu, I had an over 99% chnce to recover from it]
Do yourself a favour and research post covid medical problems, about 30 % experience problems, sometimes big problems after they had covid that didn't really hit them that hard. Here I'll see if I can find something for you:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects
COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.
By Mayo Clinic Staff
Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.
These people sometimes describe themselves as "long haulers" and the condition has been called post-COVID-19 syndrome or "long COVID-19."
Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms, but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection. The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Cough
Joint pain
Chest pain
Other long-term signs and symptoms may include:
Muscle pain or headache
Fast or pounding heartbeat
Loss of smell or taste
Memory, concentration or sleep problems
Rash or hair loss
Video: Long-term symptoms, complications of COVID-19
Organ damage caused by COVID-19
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:
Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Blood clots and blood vessel problems
COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.
Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.
Problems with mood and fatigue
People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.
Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.
Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown
Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.
Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19.
It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.
PS: I'd trust the Mayo Clinic over your doctor.
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And are you an MD?
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02-28-2021, 10:55 PM
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#54
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,267
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For those that have not had the vaccine...
This is not medical advice, this is simply observations.
I know several people that have had the vaccine.
Every one of them reports a sore arm from dose 1 and two
Most report some symptoms from dose 2. A bit of fever, fatigue, headache, lethargic, etc going away in a few days.
I've had dse 1 of moderna and go in for dose 2 in a couple of weeks.
I saw zero real downside to the vaccine and plenty of potential benefits. That made it a easy decision, but I support the right of each of us to make their own decision.
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02-28-2021, 11:06 PM
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#55
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Guru
City: Reno, Nevada
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,177
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Vaccination passports
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
I've done some research and there are other doctors and scientists who agree with my doctor, but they are quickly shutdown. This can be proven by the 120 folks in Alaska that have died due to the vaccine. But you don't hear that in the news.
Remember, the vaccine is not a "cure." It reduces the severity of the flu if you get it.
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It’s not a flu. Flu is caused by one of many influenza viruses. This is a coronavirus.
120 folks have not died due to the vaccine in that state or any state. Utter horsepucky. Bat- shot crazy, QAnon-worthy, Facebook-level rumor mongering and I’m truly sorry that anyone on here has subscribed to it, though that won’t stop me from calling BS.
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02-28-2021, 11:16 PM
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#56
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
And are you an MD?
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That's your answer for everyone who posts opinions from experts with far more knowledge than most general practitioners. People who have studied the disease and become expert in it and the vaccines. If he was a doctor, you'd dismiss him as not your doctor. That's your choice. We do not have to be MD's though to have studied Covid 19 and formed opinions based on expert doctors and scientists. At this point I have 72 employees who have had both two vaccines and none have had serious complications. Some were over 65 and some had complicating medical conditions.
I do hope the vaccine doesn't fail in this country due to lack of participation. I look at observed mask use at 77% and I look at our normal flu vaccines at 49% and look at our Covid 19 deaths and our flu deaths in most year and it's discouraging. Our 68% of those over 65 getting flu vaccine is one of the best in the world though. It's just Covid 19 is much more damaging to younger people than flu is. If our vaccination rate is less than 60-70% then any hope of widespread immunity is defeated.
I know many who were in the military are scared of experimentation as are many Black Americans and as are Native Americans.
There have been people to die after the vaccine but no deaths attributable to the vaccine. I believe there are likely a few who died and wouldn't have otherwise but not yet determined and extremely small in number.
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02-28-2021, 11:17 PM
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#57
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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No problem getting vaccinated. ASAP. I`d like everyone who can to do it too.
But, no vaccine I`ve read about claims 100% prevention, or reduced effects if infected. Someone could be infected but asymptomatic, even vaccinated.
sS, what is the value of the Passport? What does it mean? It could well mean a high probability of not being infected and being resistant to infection and or severe illness. But it`s no 100% assurance all is and will be fine. Even more so as the wily virus changes its spots and vaccines need to be tweaked, improved, redone, or replaced with a better newer one, to cope. Sure it`s better than not being vaccinated, of course it is, but still not 100% assurance.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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02-28-2021, 11:23 PM
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#58
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
No problem getting vaccinated. ASAP. I`d like everyone who can to do it too.
But, no vaccine I`ve read about claims 100% prevention, or reduced effects if infected. Someone could be infected but asymptomatic, even vaccinated.
sS, what is the value of the Passport? What does it mean? It could well mean a high probability of not being infected and being resistant to infection and or severe illness. But it`s no 100% assurance all is and will be fine. Even more so as the wily virus changes its spots and vaccines need to be tweaked, improved, redone, or replaced with a better newer one, to cope. Sure it`s better than not being vaccinated, of course it is, but still not 100% assurance.
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Maybe we'll have gold stars on our forehead.
You're right that it's not 100% but I'd still rather travel with one vaccinated than not and definitely want my travel companions tested. We had 15 or so at our house today, but all have been tested regularly and most recently within the last week. Still not 100% but a good chance of protection plus all wear masks anytime they're in public and socially distant. The more we do to protect ourselves, the safer we'll be, but we'll be subject to Coronavirus for years to come in some degree.
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02-28-2021, 11:25 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
City: Bellingham
Vessel Name: Knot Hours
Vessel Model: Hatteras 58 LRC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 289
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What about people who've already had it? They've got the best immunization possible. I wonder of that will get you a COVID passport?
I think Soviets issued their people "papers" that allowed them to travel or not travel. China currently does as well; you can only buy are sell at the level of your "papers". Didn't Germany do that in the late '30's and early 40's too?
I see both sides. Tough nut to crack.
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02-28-2021, 11:28 PM
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#60
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer
It’s not a flu. Flu is caused by one of many influenza viruses. This is a coronavirus.
120 folks have not died due to the vaccine in that state or any state. Utter horsepucky. Bat- shot crazy, QAnon-worthy, Facebook-level rumor mongering and I’m truly sorry that anyone on here has subscribed to it, though that won’t stop me from calling BS.
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Well I disagree. Sorry.
Here are a few more for you.
https://alaskawatchman.com/2021/02/2...deaths-to-cdc/
https://alaskawatchman.com/2021/02/1...sBsc54_-L7MkmQ
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