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Old 04-22-2019, 04:29 PM   #61
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Mr. g. I can readily understand your hard line attitude toward "drunks" and "druggies" but you fail to mention those who take OTC medications for colds or flu. Ever read some of the cautions on the containers. "Do not drive or operate heavy machinery". How many people take heed of THIS and how many people are drug checked for flu medications?
I know there are several OTC drugs I do not take simply because of their debilitating effects on my sensibilities.


Ms. WB. Actually, the government does not want you to do YOUR drugs they want you to do THEIR drugs. (stolen from G. Carlin)
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:45 PM   #62
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Greetings,
Mr. g. I can readily understand your hard line attitude toward "drunks" and "druggies" but you fail to mention those who take OTC medications for colds or flu. Ever read some of the cautions on the containers. "Do not drive or operate heavy machinery". How many people take heed of THIS and how many people are drug checked for flu medications?
I know there are several OTC drugs I do not take simply because of their debilitating effects on my sensibilities.


Ms. WB. Actually, the government does not want you to do YOUR drugs they want you to do THEIR drugs. (stolen from G. Carlin)
Wifey B: Prescribed and OTC especially the first time. As to flu medications, if you have anything such as flu you're not allowed to come to work. We don't want it spread and customers sure don't want it. I once knew a girl who I think was addicted to Nyquil. Guess like Lean or Purple Drank. For those who don't know, they are Codeine cough syrup mixed with soft drinks. Mountain Dew is a popular mixer for it since it's the highest caffeine.

Doctors do a lousy job of warning of side effects. I know a lady recently prescribed some slow acting Nitroglycerine type thing by her cardiologist. Took one and an hour later was in ER. He'd not given any warning but the ER doctor said they got them all the time.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:31 AM   #63
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Wifey B: As to Marijuana, the permanent experiment has very bad results so far. ER admissions and rehab admissions are way up in Colorado.

That’s straight out of DEA’s promotional play book. What is up are “mentions” of marijuana in ER medical insurance billing codes. It may mean that the patient was high as a kite; it may also mean that the patient stated he had used marijuana within the last week, month, or year. The MJ codes are secondary and tertiary information in the system. The Denver Department of Public Health has published substantial and detailed information on the subject.

Although completely ignored in most quarters, Portugal is 15-20 years in on the legalization of all drugs. Result? Drug abuse is down by half from 1990s rates.

The problem is, there are entirely too many people relying on the War on Some Drugs for a living. Labs, rehab centers, politicians, lawyers, prisons, judges, cops, HR “professionals”, etc. Drugs are bad, but drug prohibition is worse.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:33 AM   #64
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Additionally, my guess is that people are inclined to answer medical background MJ questions more forthrightly in a jurisdiction where its use is legal than in a locale where it’s a potential felony.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:49 AM   #65
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The problem is, there are entirely too many people relying on the War on Some Drugs for a living. Labs, rehab centers, politicians, lawyers, prisons, judges, cops, HR “professionals”, etc. Drugs are bad, but drug prohibition is worse.
There is also a crapload of people making a living off selling drugs to the people who use drugs, and who are addicted to drugs.

And, I, too, question the effectiveness of any program to stop drug users from getting or using drugs. I have interviewed a lot of drug addicts, and one thing they all had in common, was their affirmation that nothing on earth could stop them from finding and taking drugs when they were ready for their next fix.

Trying to save people from themselves, never works. It was a noble effort, but I think we are at the point where maybe we ought to just stand back and let Mother Nature, and Darwin, do their thing.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:15 PM   #66
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There is also a crapload of people making a living off selling drugs to the people who use drugs, and who are addicted to drugs.



And, I, too, question the effectiveness of any program to stop drug users from getting or using drugs. I have interviewed a lot of drug addicts, and one thing they all had in common, was their affirmation that nothing on earth could stop them from finding and taking drugs when they were ready for their next fix.



Trying to save people from themselves, never works. It was a noble effort, but I think we are at the point where maybe we ought to just stand back and let Mother Nature, and Darwin, do their thing.


Are you implying MJ is addictive?
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:37 PM   #67
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Wifey B: As to Marijuana, the permanent experiment has very bad results so far. ER admissions and rehab admissions are way up in Colorado.

That’s straight out of DEA’s promotional play book. What is up are “mentions” of marijuana in ER medical insurance billing codes. It may mean that the patient was high as a kite; it may also mean that the patient stated he had used marijuana within the last week, month, or year. The MJ codes are secondary and tertiary information in the system. The Denver Department of Public Health has published substantial and detailed information on the subject.

Although completely ignored in most quarters, Portugal is 15-20 years in on the legalization of all drugs. Result? Drug abuse is down by half from 1990s rates.

.
Wifey B: Can't compare Colorado to Portugal. Colorado still in the novelty stage. One thing influencing problems is the varieties offered and many users getting much stronger varieties. Marijuana tourism is playing a role. Also, the fact Colorado was turned into the wild west as opposed to a better managed and controlled change.

Clearly prohibition doesn't and hasn't worked, but legalization needs to be done properly as well. Most drugs come under some form of control beyond that which is in Colorado for marijuana.

A simple example. Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Morphine, Codiene, Hydromorphone, Fentanyl, Heroin-all part of the same family of drugs. Go to the pharmacy with a prescription or go to the hospital and you know what you're getting. Buy on the streets and you have no idea. Deaths have skyrocketed due to Fentanyl, most of which the user did not know they were buying.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:41 PM   #68
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Apparently the gateway to drug addiction is a sore or hurt body and a doctors prescription. Hundreds of thousands have become opioid addicts due to legal “medicine” they got from their MDs and Pharmacists, not from using pot. And the unscrupulous drug dealers are using their blood money to endow galleries of art in museums while minority kids selling harmless pot languish in prison.

Did anyone ever consider that the real gateway drug is nicotine? Show me a drug addict and I’ll show you a tobacco user. Or perhaps it is caffeine, 12 step programs are awash in coffee.......
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:48 PM   #69
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The only reason the drug guys make money is because the product is illegal. Columbia is the rose capital of the planet. Commercial roses have to be grown under controlled conditions in greenhouses. They are then picked, dethorned, cut, rolled, and packaged in environmentally controlled plants. It’s all very labor intensive. Then they are air freighted to environmentally controlled distribution points in the states and finally locally delivered. The florist does his thing, and I walk out on Valentines Day with a $75 bunch of roses. I don’t know, but I’m guessing that dozen roses might weigh a couple of pounds. Let’s say Columbian roses cost $37.50 a pound.

The Columbian coke guys do about the same process, less environmental controls. Except their product (if it remained pure, which it doesn’t) at current street prices sells for about $13,700 a pound.

The difference is risk premium. The risk is enforcement consequences. The only hook the drug guys have in the game is prohibition – they’d be growing roses without it.

As Group9 said, drug abuse is (or should be) a Darwin's Law problem. As such, it's self limiting.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:59 PM   #70
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Are you implying MJ is addictive?
Any drug that people will risk their jobs, their family and even their freedom to keep using is obviously addictive.

I love chocolate like nobody’s business, but if it was illegal, no way would I risk that stuff to take it. Addicts will.

If that hurts your feelings or your self perspective, I’m sorry.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:04 PM   #71
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The only reason the drug guys make money is because the product is illegal. .
Tell that to Perdue Pharma, LOL!
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:31 PM   #72
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Any drug that people will risk their jobs, their family and even their freedom to keep using is obviously addictive.

I love chocolate like nobody’s business, but if it was illegal, no way would I risk that stuff to take it. Addicts will.

If that hurts your feelings or your self perspective, I’m sorry.
Wifey B: There is physically addictive and mentally or habitually addictive. This was long a debate on cocaine with many arguing that it's not addictive, because much evidence supports saying it's not physically addictive. However, a person who feels they must have it regularly even though it puts them at risk is clearly addicted in some way.

Nicotine is very strongly physically addictive while the act of smoking is also habitually addictive to many.

Chocolate is most interesting because some studies have shown that it triggers the brain in much the same way as heroin, causing a craving for it.

Addiction is a psychological and physical inability to stop consuming a chemical, drug, activity, or substance, even though it is causing psychological and physical harm.


So, overeating, gambling, sex and many more things fit the definition. Fishing and boating and golf. If you must do an activity every weekend rather than spending time with your family, it's an addiction. Work addiction is real.

I'm a believer that you are unlikely to be successful in ending one's addition until you help them understand why they're addicted. What underlying mental illness is leading you to continue to do something, knowing the harm its causing you.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:13 PM   #73
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Admittedly, I have a negative view of pot. Generally because I see addiction prone people not live up to their potential.

Furthermore, I have always worked in places where impairment can lead to a fatality, so I appreciate the zero tolerance aspects that some employers maintain.

In an office environment... Meh, not so much. Maybe they goof up some ciphering and forget to carry the naught.

I think where the whole legalization thing messed up is not being able to check for impairment. Not sure what the RCMP has at their disposal. Perhaps I'll find out at a check stop someday...
Well there you go...

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...a-for-cannabis
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:59 PM   #74
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You're correct, Group9. That's why I call it the War on Some Drugs.

Wifey B - I wasn't comparing Colorado to Portugal, but I'm not sure I see any reason not to. And, the fact remains, with 15-20 years experience Portugese drug abuse is down by half from 1990s rates.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:32 PM   #75
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You're correct, Group9. That's why I call it the War on Some Drugs.

Wifey B - I wasn't comparing Colorado to Portugal, but I'm not sure I see any reason not to. And, the fact remains, with 15-20 years experience Portugese drug abuse is down by half from 1990s rates.
Wifey B: I'd love to know what happened initially in Portugal. My guess, knowing human nature, was abuse increased but then when the novelty and wickedness and attraction just wore off, it decreased. Also, I suspect that instead of spending the money on enforcement and punishment, they spent more on prevention. You sure don't cure addiction or abuse by arresting someone.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:55 PM   #76
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Any drug that people will risk their jobs, their family and even their freedom to keep using is obviously addictive.



I love chocolate like nobody’s business, but if it was illegal, no way would I risk that stuff to take it. Addicts will.



If that hurts your feelings or your self perspective, I’m sorry.


Your tenor certainly implies yours is the final, authoritative word. However, you are wrong.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:59 PM   #77
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There is also a crapload of people making a living off selling drugs to the people who use drugs, and who are addicted to drugs.

...maybe we ought to just stand back and let Mother Nature, and Darwin, do their thing.
There's no doubt FAR MORE people making money off prohibition/punishment than sales.

The trouble with 'standing back' is the amount of collateral damage your Darwin candidates cause on their way out.

It's pretty damned sickening how readily a great many people seem to delight in demonizing others. Clearly few have ever had to deal with the challenges of addiction personally.

More often than not the path where the addicts started had a lot of people ignoring/abusing them. And funerals at the end where those same people lament not having done anything. Easy to say that after the fact, much harder to actually extend help to those that need it.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:15 PM   #78
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Greetings,
Mr. NS. EXACTLY the point I made in post #52. Drivers will be detained for evidence of USE not necessarily IMPAIRMENT. As has been mentioned, legalization of pot was enacted before all the legal parameters had been settled.



An excerpt from this article: https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it


"Portugal’s policy rests on three pillars: one, that there’s no such thing as a soft or hard drug, only healthy and unhealthy relationships with drugs; two, that an individual’s unhealthy relationship with drugs often conceals frayed relationships with loved ones, with the world around them, and with themselves; and three, that the eradication of all drugs is an impossible goal."
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:15 PM   #79
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https://youtu.be/XVCtkzIXYzQ
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:58 PM   #80
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Greetings,
Mr. dh.



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