Sea time much be attested to by the captain or owner or yourself if your boat. Some documentation must be provided. However, there is nothing in the regulations requiring it to be in the ships logs.
USCG Captain's License
- Thread starter La Sirena
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Sea time much be attested to by the captain or owner or yourself if your boat. Some documentation must be provided. However, there is nothing in the regulations requiring it to be in the ships logs.
psneeld
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Like all forum info...good to follow up on advice to make sure it applies to you or is entirely accurate....even this could be dated by tomorrow.
From National Maritime Center website....
When can I claim time-and-a-half credit?
• For most vessels, no additional credit may be received for periods served over 8 hours.
However, on vessels authorized by 46 U.S.C. 8104, 46 CFR 15.705, and the vessel’s manning
requirements to operate a two-watch system, a 12-hour working day may in some cases
be creditable as 1 1/2 days of service.
• If you work on a vessel operating with a Coast Guard authorized six-on-six-off watch system
with only two watch standing officers (i.e., certain crew boats, supply boats, towboats and
some commercial fishing boats), you may claim 1 1/2 days for each 12-hour day worked.
• For more information on this topic, please see 12 Hour Day / Time-and-a-Half Credit.
Portage_Bay
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A question for those who's quailing sea time for the original issue was on private recreational boats. When did you get your sea time?
I'm just curious. My original issue was early 70s and if I remember correctly my time had to be under licensed captains which implied working non recreational boats.
Maybe it's the circle I run in but I don't recall meeting / working with licensed captains who got their original sea time from private recreational boats until about 15 yrs ago.
I'm just curious. My original issue was early 70s and if I remember correctly my time had to be under licensed captains which implied working non recreational boats.
Maybe it's the circle I run in but I don't recall meeting / working with licensed captains who got their original sea time from private recreational boats until about 15 yrs ago.
psneeld
Guru
It's been going on for over 20 years....back before I took the course in 1999.
If you have proof of ownership of a boat you simply fill out a Sea service form and sign.
If someone else's recreational boat, you fil, out and gave them sign.
Possible fraud? You bet but the USCG isn't all dumb, they check, they know what probably smells bad, etc.... and if caught, dont ever plan on getting a license easily.
If you have proof of ownership of a boat you simply fill out a Sea service form and sign.
If someone else's recreational boat, you fil, out and gave them sign.
Possible fraud? You bet but the USCG isn't all dumb, they check, they know what probably smells bad, etc.... and if caught, dont ever plan on getting a license easily.
Portage_Bay
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Thanks for the explanation. As I said, just curious. I wasn't concerned about fraud specific to qualifying sea time. Fraud happened before recreational time was accepted, happens now and will always happen.
jgwinks
Guru
Right. They consider a standard day to be 8 hours, but recognize that some vessels aren't underway that long so they accept 4 hours. Except during emergencies a commercial crew is not allowed to work more than 12 continuous hours and must have at least 6 hours off watch between on watch periods. That's why ships running continuous operation have to have a licensed mate to take over when the Master is off watch and enough crew to fill the other positions 24/7. For this reason they will count 12 hours as 1.5 days, and anything more than 12 hours is only counted as 12 as you weren't supposed to work that long in the first place.
jgwinks
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In that scenario any license action would be the result of the BWI and or other criminal charges, not the accident itself. I heard of a guy who had a celebration party after getting his license, got popped for DUI and lost his ticket before he even got to use it. That one may have been a myth but I did use the story in my Master's classes as an example of what can happen. Actually telling the students they have heightened liability would be a really bad idea. Some of them would quit and want their money back.
psneeld
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maybe, maybe not ....hard to know as the USCGs actions are administrative, not legal.
Bud
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"There is only one thing that can keep a man everlastingly ignorant and that is Contempt prior to investigation" Herbert Spencer
Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen long ago. Sea time has always included all boats.
My sea time started in 1986 and I first started documenting it in 2012. At the time I moved to Fort Lauderdale, I had 2311 days of sea time, all inland and all on boats of 30' or less. My wife had 955 days. That was on five different boats. When we first applied, we also then had some time signed off by a Captain on larger coastal boats. First license was 25 Ton Inland but took a little while to upgrade to 100 Ton NC. Then 200 Ton came almost immediately thereafter.
As to documentation, it was month by month for each boat. I also presented proof of ownership of each boat. That could have been challenging as NC didn't title boats until around 2007. For reasons unknown to me, I'd kept all my registrations. I think submitting a well documented file initially plus having such an excess of time plus having school and some time under Captains all made it easier.
We did receive one set of follow up requests. They just selected one year on one boat and a couple of months and asked if we could provide details. We gave them the specific days. They also asked if we had service records or engine hours on one specific boat or anyone who could verify our usage. I was lucky in that the dealership was under the same ownership still and the owner there could quickly verify.
After we supplied that information, we received our licenses within ten days. I'm sure they have some internal guidelines as to auditing submissions and they do some spot checks and then approve unless something suspicious arises.
My feeling afterwards was that they would accept most reasonably accurate sea time but that any that was totally unsupported they'd quickly reject. Clearly I was an avid lifetime boater.
Now a place most recreational boating would come up short is all those times one goes out for an hour or two. All those afternoons of a quick boat ride after work go unused. Also, if it was on someone else's boat, like a parent or friend, and they weren't available to document. I encourage parents to keep records and document for their kids, just in case.
We have a captain who used recreational time as she grew up spending hundreds of hours running her parents' Grand Banks. She lived in FL so 12 months a year. She got a six pack at 19 and worked as a charter captain during the summer her Junior year of college and then right after graduation. No, she didn't go to a Maritime College, degree in Accounting. She always knew she wanted to be a boat captain but family tradition said get an accounting degree like her father and sister.
Wxx3
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I got my 100 ton Masters thru Sea School. It was a 10 day, 10 hr/day course and I thought it was well worthwhile for all the points OP mentioned.
I really liked our course and instructor, though in talking to people, it was clear that the quality of instruction was about the individual instructor more than the school.
ranger58sb
Guru
I guess my internet protocols are rusty. I thought all caps was shouting.
That was before being able to use more than just the basic ASCII character set.
-Chris
Not true for those with a CDL, nor for those with a USCG license... IF we are talking about a recreational situation where they are NOT operating under the auspices of the license. That is the key point. Yes, if you are a CDL driving a commercial vehicle, then you can be held to a higher standard. If you are driving your own private vehicle, on private business -- nothing at all to do with commercial operations -- then you are just another driver, like anybody else. And the same is true for those with a CG license.
No, there's not that. That ONLY applies when you are operating in a way that requires your license. Only when you are using your license. Private vessel, completely recreational operation, you are just another boat driver like anyone else.
And again, for those who believe that I am wrong, should be easy to point me to a source of information that proves this. A court case, a ruling, a white paper from the Coast Guard... Something! Yet no one has ever been able to do that. Hmmmm.
psneeld
Guru
I know USCG licenses and will agree with what you have said.
I don't know CDLs, but I have heard before that your BAC is lowered even when you are driving your own car to the Federal 0.04 limit. But that's second hand info.
I have an uncle who spent 20 years driving 18-wheelers. He is the one who told me that, driving your private vehicle on private business, you're just another driver, with just the same limits, responsibilities, and liabilities of any other driver on the road.
I don't know about CG but a very close and long time friend has CL A CDL... drove for many years and now services big rigs so needs his CDL. He has repeated stated that CDL blood alcohol levels apply no matter what you are driving and whether compensated or not. His wife serves as DD as needed to protect his income.
We have all these "I know a person who" or "I have a relative who", but let me refer to a better source.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/383.51
Clearly in looking through that a CDL is impacted only by violations occurring while driving a CMV (Commercial motor vehicle).
However, I suspect there are other reasons for the misperception. Employers and Insurers. Neither may be as lenient as the state or federal government.
Note also that disqualification rules by the DOT and similar employer and insurer rules don't just involve alcohol but include other driving violations. Driving record is very important to a commercial driver. As an employer, we are very strict as we think a responsible commercial driver needs to be responsible in all their driving.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/383.51
Clearly in looking through that a CDL is impacted only by violations occurring while driving a CMV (Commercial motor vehicle).
However, I suspect there are other reasons for the misperception. Employers and Insurers. Neither may be as lenient as the state or federal government.
Note also that disqualification rules by the DOT and similar employer and insurer rules don't just involve alcohol but include other driving violations. Driving record is very important to a commercial driver. As an employer, we are very strict as we think a responsible commercial driver needs to be responsible in all their driving.
Alaskaflyer
Guru
Seems similar to the FAA attempting to regulate commercial vs private vs part 135 flights and related issues.
Alaskaflyer
Guru
I've heard anecdotes of international recreational boaters being hassled (too strong a word?) over lack of written evidence of their "certification" to operate their own large vessel during custom checks, probably by uninformed customs officials.
In much of Europe, licensing is required for operation of recreational boats. Note this is not a Captains license but some form of recreational license. It's often based on size and sometimes 15 meters, sometimes 24. Now, generally they defer to flag state so wouldn't hold a US citizen operating a US flagged boat to the same standard.
BandB
That reference includes...
"Question 12: Is a driver disqualified under*§383.51*if convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol while operating a personal vehicle?
Guidance:*The convictions triggering mandatory disqualification under*§383.51*all pertain to offenses that occur while the person is driving a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV). However, a driver could be disqualified under §383.51(b)(2)(i) if the State has stricter standards which apply to offenses committed in a personal vehicle. (The same principle applies to all other disqualifying offenses listed in*§383.51.)"
That and other similar sections admit that some states can (do?) Have stricter regs. Apparently PA is one of those as I absolutely trust my source as knowledgable re BAC.
That reference includes...
"Question 12: Is a driver disqualified under*§383.51*if convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol while operating a personal vehicle?
Guidance:*The convictions triggering mandatory disqualification under*§383.51*all pertain to offenses that occur while the person is driving a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV). However, a driver could be disqualified under §383.51(b)(2)(i) if the State has stricter standards which apply to offenses committed in a personal vehicle. (The same principle applies to all other disqualifying offenses listed in*§383.51.)"
That and other similar sections admit that some states can (do?) Have stricter regs. Apparently PA is one of those as I absolutely trust my source as knowledgable re BAC.
Well, I decided to research PA. Here are two key links.
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/DVSPubsForms/BDL/BDL Fact Sheets/FS-DA.pdf
That makes it clear that a DUI and some other offenses disqualify whether a CMV or Private Vehicle but doesn't get to the details.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/75/00.015.043.000..HTM
Here in section 1.1 (i) it states "A person who has an amount of alcohol by weight in his blood that is equal to or greater than .02% at the time of testing or who at the time of testing has in his blood any amount of a Schedule I or nonprescribed Schedule II or III controlled substance, as defined in the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L.233, No.64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or its metabolite or who refuses testing of blood or breath and who drives a motor vehicle on any highway or trafficway of this Commonwealth at a time when the person's operating privilege is suspended or revoked as a condition of acceptance of Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition for a violation of section 3802 or former section 3731 or because of a violation of section 1547(b)(1) or 3802 or former section 3731 or is suspended under section 1581 for an offense substantially similar to a violation of section 3802 or former section 3731 shall, upon a first conviction, be guilty of a summary offense and shall be sentenced to pay a fine of $1,000 and to undergo imprisonment for a period of not less than 90 days."
Now, there it's referring to someone who already had a suspension.
I couldn't find anything specific to what we've discussed but everything I did find would tend to support what you've said regarding PA holding CDL holders to a higher standard even when operating a private car. I applaud them.
Back to discussing a Captains License. One thing sometimes overlooked is being subject to random drug tests. Of course, the drug most often caught would be the one legal now in many states but not by Federal law. Meanwhile alcohol isn't monitored and the likelihood of testing positive for stronger drugs is slim for the occasional user. But as a licensed Captain any positive test for drugs will cause your license to be suspended.
As to alcohol testing, we hold all employees in all jobs to the .02% threshold, anytime on the job, anytime driving a company vehicle. Simply no drinking at all on the job and if you partied late into the morning, then call in and don't come to work.
As to alcohol testing, we hold all employees in all jobs to the .02% threshold, anytime on the job, anytime driving a company vehicle. Simply no drinking at all on the job and if you partied late into the morning, then call in and don't come to work.
