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Old 01-07-2020, 06:27 AM   #21
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USCG Boat Capsizes in the Columbia

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Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
When we were heading to Seattle last summer there were 3 ships en route to Tacoma going 20kts. Created a huge huge wake. VTS called them and told them to slow down they were in a "No Wake" zone. Scared the crap outta us and dang near rolled several other boats.

We just experienced this ourselves a week ago while heading south between Marrowstone Island and Whidbey Island.

We got pinched between a fast moving freighter going 18 knots in the southbound traffic separation lane and the west side of Marrowstone Island.

Fortunately we had plenty of situational awareness (AIS, Radar, visual) so I could turn into her wake but the steepness and short period of that wake meant the second wave broke over our anchors (we have 9’ of freeboard on the bow)

It was a scary moment as stuff went flying (including my daughter who unbeknownst to us was hanging out in the forward cabin). No injuries and the only casualties were a broken HDMI cable from a monitor the fell over and a ceramic crab that fell off the wall (I hated that crab so it worked out). [emoji6]

I called it our “Deadliest Catch” scene given how far out of the water we got our bow on that first wave and how much water we moved plowing through the second.

I can’t imagine taking it on the beam. I’m sure it could’ve easily capsized a smaller, lighter, open boat.

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Old 01-07-2020, 06:43 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BDofMSP View Post
BTW, who claimed it was a rogue wave? I didn't see that in the story yet it keeps being mentioned.
The rogue wave stuff started with post #2 by GFC.

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Yeah, those damn rogue waves. From the looks of the waves in the photo it's only about a 1'-2' wind chop. Nothing extreme for a 26' boat unless the person at the helm was hot dogging it.
I don't think it was a serious claim of a rogue wave. Seems to me it was a tongue in cheek statement. You'd have to ask GFC to know or sure.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:08 AM   #23
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Greetings,
There is also no mention of what the crew were doing or how and with what the boat was loaded with at the time of the incident. Perhaps they had a load of chain on board or some such other heavy piece(s) of equipment and were near the maximum load carrying capacity.


I wouldn't be so quick to question the professionalism of the crew. These guys do this for a living and work in all kinds of weather and sea conditions trying to keep us all safe. No lives were lost so it's simply an "oopsie" IMO.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:25 AM   #24
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Greetings,
There is also no mention of what the crew were doing or how and with what the boat was loaded with at the time of the incident. Perhaps they had a load of chain on board or some such other heavy piece(s) of equipment and were near the maximum load carrying capacity.


I wouldn't be so quick to question the professionalism of the crew. These guys do this for a living and work in all kinds of weather and sea conditions trying to keep us all safe. No lives were lost so it's simply an "oopsie" IMO.

RTF...one article said they were enroute to home base and not far away.


They took the wakes that ether shifted cargo or put enough water aboard to produce an unrecoverable list (as reported)....or a combo of both (typical in small vessel operations).


We did see small wavelets in the photo...but not sure what yhey were at the time and place of the capsize.


We also don't know if the wakes by themselves may have been treacherous...we also do know it they were worsened by reflected wakes off a shoreline/seawall that can make them harder to predict by the average, even trained skipper.


I am pretty sure they will get grilled and properly investigated....however possible the "correction" will defy some outsiders opinion.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:16 AM   #25
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Ten-knot ships don't make wakes.
That ship is empty...when full it looks like it would be about 12 feet lower in the water which is a heck of a lot more water to displace and shrug aside.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:44 AM   #26
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Greetings,
Mr. MM. VERY astute of you to pick up on the loading or lack thereof and a very valid point regarding wake.





Poor angle but I suspect the wake from this vessel is a tad more than a ripple.
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:23 AM   #27
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The wakes in the Columbia channel are nothing like the ones you'd see out on the ocean. The fluid dynamics are very different. The channel is relatively narrow compared to the length of the freighters and dredged to only 43 feet up to Portland. Loaded cargo vessels draw up to 40+ feet. There is a lot of water displaced from the channel when one of the larger loaded freighters goes up the channel at speed.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
The rogue wave stuff started with post #2 by GFC.


I don't think it was a serious claim of a rogue wave. Seems to me it was a tongue in cheek statement. You'd have to ask GFC to know or sure.
Tongue was very firmly planted in my cheek.

Many years ago we chartered a 4588 Bayliner to cruise the San Juans. We ended up in Victoria for a couple of days and, as we were coming out of their long harbor we heard a Notice To Mariners about a large Navy ship steaming at full speed out of Bremerton and headed out the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

We thought it would be fun to watch so we just idled around waiting for the ship to pass. It did, and man was it ever moving. We were a couple of miles from it when it went by but could see the wake coming.

YIKES. The first wave we rode up and over with no problem. The second wave we rode up and up and up and when we reached the crest it looked like we were going to head into a canyon. The bow stuffed itself into the face of the third wave. Water came over the bow, up over the fly bridge and washed everything off the boat. Towels, magazines, books, everything that wasn't tied down went overboard.

I thought for a few seconds that the boat was going to not be able to recover but it did and bobbed up to the surface as the third wave went under us.

Scared the CRAP right out of us.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:16 PM   #29
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We just experienced this ourselves a week ago while heading south between Marrowstone Island and Whidbey Island.

We got pinched between a fast moving freighter going 18 knots in the southbound traffic separation lane and the west side of Marrowstone Island.
That was the Cosco Europe was flying down the sound kicking up a huge wake. He didn't slow down until he reached Shilshole. He was still going 15+ around West Point.

I darted in towards the eastern shore just to take a better angle and allow more energy to dissipate. Maybe he was way behind schedule!

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Old 01-07-2020, 02:47 PM   #30
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No excuse for that. The decision to violate local norms was made with the connivance of a Sound pilot who should be held accountable.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
When we were heading to Seattle last summer there were 3 ships en route to Tacoma going 20kts. Created a huge huge wake. VTS called them and told them to slow down they were in a "No Wake" zone. Scared the crap outta us and dang near rolled several other boats.
Seen it many times. The stated regulation describes the usual subjective 'norm', similar to other, no wake zone situations, as you stated in another post:

"Shipping - 46 USC Section 2302
(a) A person operating a vessel in a negligent manner or interfering with the safe operation of a vessel, so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of a person is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000 in the case of a recreational vessel, or $25,000 in the case of any other vessel.
(b) A person operating a vessel in a grossly negligent manner that endangers the life, limb, or property of a person commits a class "A" misdemeanor.
(c) An individual who is under the influence of alcohol, or a dangerous drug in violation of a law of the United States when operating a vessel, as determined under standards prescribed by the Secretary by regulation -
(1) is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,500
(2) Commits a class "A" misdemeanor.

Note: Each vessel operator is responsible for operating their vessel at a safe speed, especially in reduced visibility, and for the wake created by their vessel.

When a tide exceeds a stage of 11.0 feet at Seattle, there is an increased risk of vessel wakes endangering persons and/or property along the shoreline within the VTS Area. All vessels operating within the VTS Area should proceed at a speed that will minimize the risk of wake damage while maintaining the ability to maneuver safely."

https://www.pacificarea.uscg.mil/Por...UserManual.pdf
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tozz View Post
Seen it many times. The stated regulation describes the usual subjective 'norm', similar to other, no wake zone situations, as you stated in another post:

"Shipping - 46 USC Section 2302
(a) A person operating a vessel in a negligent manner or interfering with the safe operation of a vessel, so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of a person is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000 in the case of a recreational vessel, or $25,000 in the case of any other vessel.
(b) A person operating a vessel in a grossly negligent manner that endangers the life, limb, or property of a person commits a class "A" misdemeanor.
(c) An individual who is under the influence of alcohol, or a dangerous drug in violation of a law of the United States when operating a vessel, as determined under standards prescribed by the Secretary by regulation -
(1) is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,500
(2) Commits a class "A" misdemeanor.

Note: Each vessel operator is responsible for operating their vessel at a safe speed, especially in reduced visibility, and for the wake created by their vessel.

When a tide exceeds a stage of 11.0 feet at Seattle, there is an increased risk of vessel wakes endangering persons and/or property along the shoreline within the VTS Area. All vessels operating within the VTS Area should proceed at a speed that will minimize the risk of wake damage while maintaining the ability to maneuver safely."

https://www.pacificarea.uscg.mil/Por...UserManual.pdf
Well try to recover money for damage caused by a wake. The only poeple that win in this situation are lawyers only.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:52 PM   #33
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Well try to recover money for damage caused by a wake. The only poeple that win in this situation are lawyers only.


Luckily we have never incurred damage. I was cruising with airstream345 when he got tossed.
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