US Comes Home Flying Jolly Roger

[psneeld]

Being in the military and in Washington, DC for a couple years...I am not sure I need to cue into anything.


You are quoting men from a half century ago....maybe you haven't changed, but we have.... and I will agree sometimes not for the better but you still aren't the final word ...now where even close unless you are Australia's minister of Defense, especially quoting 50 year old politics.


War has changed along with the world since WWII.


So discussing it with that start is a no go for me....especially since Australia has been in step right along with us for so long...just not capable of force projection like us. Plus....a student of history knows the cold war started during WWII...

[Benthic2]

Simi...but why is the American Military so evil when Australia's Military has been right beside the US in most of the actions since WWII ? Perhaps your ire should be directed at militaries in general, and not just the U. S. ??

[danderer]

Originally Posted by Benthic2

Perhaps your ire should be directed at militaries in general, and not just the U. S. ??

..and in some other forum.

[kthoennes]

All I know is that I'm basking in a deep sense of satisfaction that I replaced all my salon lights with LED's, soft white, nice and cool and not hotter than the core of a nuclear reactor like the halogen G4's, and I've cut the amp load by 90%. And if I replace the oil pressure sending unit on the starboard engine this weekend and that finally solves my erratic oil pressure gauge, life will be even better.

[Benthic2]

Originally Posted by danderer

..and in some other forum.

Good point....but, I bet the US Navy has better anchors than the Australian Navy!!

[kthoennes]

Originally Posted by Benthic2

Good point....but, I bet the US Navy has better anchors than the Australian Navy!!

Swivel or no swivel?

[Wxx3]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

The people perhaps but not the ones who profit.
Their motives are purely monetary driven.

[/URL]

1. I don't get my facts from Utube or Wikipedia.

2. It shows that this is a ridiculous conversation when your argument revolves about the USA making money on all our endeavors around the world.

Have a good life.

[menzies]

You guys stop derailing my thread or I will have you up before the CO.

[psneeld]

Just remember before you go there, do you own a sub or a target?

[dannc]

I find it interesting when people bring up Eisenhower's Farewell Speech and label it as the Military Industrial Complex speech. It is instructive because of the title change to Military Industrial Complex from Farewell Speech. I would be willing to bet that most people who have mentioned Ike's "Military Industrial Complex" speech have actually read or listened to the speech. For those who have actually heard of the speech, I would think the number who have read or heard the speech has to be close to zero.

The speech has two main topics, one of which IS about the Military Industrial Complex but what is the other topic? It is the Research Industrial Complex. Kinda interesting that one topic of the speech is labeled and mentioned over and over and over but the other topic is ignored. Why?

Here is the text of the speech released to the press.

https://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/...ss_Release.pdf

Section IV at the end of page two is the core of the speech. The previous paragraph(s) are important, and VERY relevant today, but lets just look at paragraph before Section IV:

The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.

The first part of Section IV is all about the Military Industrial Complex but then Ike gets to the second threat, which to be fair and consistent, should be called the Research Industrial Complex.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

Interesting that this section is never mentioned...

Then there is Section V which is very simple and to the point.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we-you and I, and our government-must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow

Well, we sure have done what Ike warned against. It has been done on the Federal, state and local level and it has been done not because of the Military Industrial Complex.

People really should read what Ike had to say in his Farewell Speech which was FAR more than just a warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

Tis interesting to me how Ike's speech is renamed and spun to only mention less than half of what he said. It is also instructive to see how far this renaming and spinning has woven its way into the media and peoples consciousness.

Later,
Dan