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Old 03-05-2019, 08:08 PM   #21
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So the sum of all these posts is: depends on the exact design of the boat.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:43 PM   #22
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Mainship MKIII with both upper and lower helm. Hardly ever use the lower helm. As far as docking, with two, it's routine. with one person, if the wind is blowing me towards the dock, just pull in and scurry down to tie the lines, if the wind is blowing me away from the dock, got to give a call to the dock master. A side door would be nice, but there are none on the Mainship MK models.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:27 PM   #23
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It is simple for us, we don’t have a lower helm station. We deliberately bought a boat that does not have one as we wanted the room in the salon. We don’t have side doors either. We put a hardtop on the flybridge and I fabricated an enclosure for it so we are protected from the weather. We had a previous boat that had a lower helm and a side door on the starboard side and also a cockpit. Unfortunately our boat yard can’t haul anything bigger than our 41 so we couldn’t go any larger. So having the smaller boat we were unwilling to give up the interior room to a helm and side doors.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:38 AM   #24
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No matter what the eventuality comes to, regarding what/why/when you use the bridge for piloting or the salon for piloting:

I recommend both pilot stations to be available... with good access door at salon and good steps from bridge.

Than you can decide which station is better [i.e. well pleases your needs most] for whatever boat maneuvering reason/situation you may encounter.

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Old 03-06-2019, 05:17 AM   #25
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I had a MT 38 DC when I did the loop plus a side trip to the Bahamas in 2015 and 2016. I never used the lower helm, once nearly did on the Kentucky Lakes when it got very cold. If you were singled handed, I wasn't, the lower helm would be helpful on occasions. I was lucky, single screw but fore and aft thrusters, piece of cake. I can recommend the MT as a great Trawler if you are not in a hurry, averaged 7.3 knots @ 2.4 GPH with Cummins 210.
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:46 AM   #26
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Upper helm 99.99% of the time. Enclosed flybridge, all electronics are on the bridge. Cruising grounds are Long Island sound, Block Island, Long Island.
Lower station for maintenance chores or emergency.

Even when we cruised the Erie Canal and the Canadian canals, it was upper station.
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:14 AM   #27
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It depends on a lot of factors.

In our boat both helms are nearly equally equipped, so I'm not lacking the ability to do anything of significance from either station. So it becomes a matter of conditions. I absolutely despise having to deal with canvas panels, so the ones that fit into the flybridge bimini are nowhere to be found on-board. Thus when conditions dictate, we run from below. Otherwise if it's nice weather, the view from the flybridge gets preference.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:11 PM   #28
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I normally run from the flybridge, I do have an enclosure with opening panels. During rain or nasty weather I’ll run from the lower helm, I’ve been through locks several dozen times and do not feel the need for a side door. Even docking I can get into the cockpit quick enough to get a line on her and on to the dock. I have electronics at both helms, the only difference is 2 mfd on the bridge and a single at the lower that will overlay radar on the chart. I think a side door would be a plus but a person can learn to get along just fine without one.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:14 PM   #29
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Our Californian has FB and lower helm. Run from lower in unpleasant weather; FB in good. Soon as we get FB enclosure finished will probably spend more time up there. Both stations are set up the same electronically; just better visibility upstairs
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:49 PM   #30
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We have no enclosure on the FB and we’d probably run more from below in borderline weather if it was quieter. As it is, we’ve stayed on the FB in some uncomfortable conditions both because of the noise and not having an auto pilot below. However, I just installed a new AP28 head on the lower helm and will be exploring SoundDown to see if it makes a difference. Not that it’s unbearable below, just SO much more pleasant (most of the time) up top. Just the distant purr of the engines and an unobstructed view.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:15 PM   #31
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It`s quieter mechanically on the FB, and in a way that`s a negative, I like to hear what`s going on under the floor.
It might depend how hospitable the FB is to use, weather incl. I don`t mind not having one if there is a usable cockpit. Good boats without are few and far on the market here.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:44 PM   #32
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I have a raised pilothouse with very good visibility, so I usually operate from there. RPH is definitely very nice to have. The flybridge has a hard top, mostly for solar panels but also to keep the sun off. It is deliberately not enclosed. The downside of that is that even at 8kn the wind chill can mean it is preferable to go below.

But I would typically dock from the flybridge, except for the last adjustments which are from down below via the internal stairs, so quick and easy access. Port and starboard doors, and side doors from walk-around decks means that there is no preferred side for berths. I would normally be bow-in, as this provides some privacy in the cockpit.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I don't have a flybridge, but with regard to docking, my stern docking station is an absolute winner. The station is located on the starboard side, allows me a clear line of sight down the starboard side, and unsurpassed vision on the stern. I normally back in or side tie. The station allows me to deploy a spring line without leaving the station and has easy access to the dock through the transom door and off the swim platform.



Attachment 86111



The station consists of a single lever engine and transmission control, a jog lever which controls the rudder through the autopilot, and the bow thruster control. While not common on boats, it wouldn't be difficult to add to most as the only cables are for engine and transmission controls. The jog lever and bow thruster controls are each a multi conductor single wire.



Attachment 86112



Ted

That cockpit control is so damn cool. Was it originally on the boat or did you add it during the refit?
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:38 AM   #34
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When I had a GB 36 Classic, running solo I would mostly use the FB station (except in bad weather) but when docking or picking up a mooring bouy, I'd first stop the boat go on deck, set lines (and fenders if needed) and then proceed from the lower helm so I could quickly access the lines on deck. Seemed to work well. Note: to reassure wife ( and because it makes good sense) I always wore a PFD when at the upper helm and always put the boat in neutral when moving between upper and lower helms (including breaks to use the head) and always kept at least one hand on a rail when moving about. Visions of bobbing in the water while the boat continued on its merry way on autopilot convinced me that the minor inconvenience was well worth it.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:50 AM   #35
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My old boat, a 42 Californian, had upper and lower helm stations. I'd run from the upper helm station any time the weather was nice or I was in crowded waters, e.g. marinas, anchorages, and harbor entrances, or anytime there was something I really wanted to see well at a distance, or I was concerned about local hazards, e.g. crab traps or rocks or the surface of the water.

But, if the weather was bad, or it was at night and cold, as long as I was in open, uncrowded, and uncomplicated water, I had no concern about piloting the boat for hours from the lower helm. And, sometimes when the weather got nasty and I couldn't see well anyway (heavy fog or super heavy rain), I piloted from the lower helm, anyway. I just creeped along really slowly, set and really watched radar, AIS, and stayed prepared to react quickly if anyone moving faster than me appeared out of nowhere quickly.

The other thing I did from the lower helm sometimes was to use it to bump the transmissions to keep myself straight and from drifting too far forward or backward while tying up in the wind. It was a long slow way up to the flybridge from the ropes.

My big problem with the lower helm was just all of the reflection on the glass. I never managed to get it dark enough to see out as well as I could from the top. Up top, the strataglass was worse than the lower windshield for reflections and glare. But, I could see out the back and most of the two sides, and easily look around the front windshield or poke my head out of a zipper. At the lower helm, all I could really do was poke my head out the door, and that gave me less than half of what was around me.

In the boat I just bought, the lower helm has a wheel, but no engine or transmission controls. They were reportedly never hooked up, even when the boat is new. They are dual-engine/dual-function controls. From what I heard from a prior owner, the manufacturer had gotten sued over the calibration of the neutral/gear point after an accident involving a sister ship and left it to the dealer to install the cables and assume the liability -- and they left it to the owner.

I think I am owner #4 -- and the first to be hooking them up. That is, with luck, this weekend's project. If for nothing else, I really want it working in case I need it tying up.

And, I can imagine that if I ever need to catch a ball; by myself (which I have never done) -- I'll need that lower helm.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
We have no enclosure on the FB and we’d probably run more from below in borderline weather if it was quieter. As it is, we’ve stayed on the FB in some uncomfortable conditions both because of the noise and not having an auto pilot below. However, I just installed a new AP28 head on the lower helm and will be exploring SoundDown to see if it makes a difference. Not that it’s unbearable below, just SO much more pleasant (most of the time) up top. Just the distant purr of the engines and an unobstructed view.
Your loud noise could be due to running powerful engines moving the boat at substantial speed. Pity the galley crew and diners in the saloon who aren't on the remote, elevated flybridge while underway. We don't have that problem using a single 80-HP diesel engine, while occupying either the pilothouse, galley, or saloon.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Gordon GB View Post
When I had a GB 36 Classic, running solo I would mostly use the FB station (except in bad weather) but when docking or picking up a mooring bouy, I'd first stop the boat go on deck, set lines (and fenders if needed) and then proceed from the lower helm so I could quickly access the lines on deck. Seemed to work well. Note: to reassure wife ( and because it makes good sense) I always wore a PFD when at the upper helm and always put the boat in neutral when moving between upper and lower helms (including breaks to use the head) and always kept at least one hand on a rail when moving about. Visions of bobbing in the water while the boat continued on its merry way on autopilot convinced me that the minor inconvenience was well worth it.
Sound SOP! ... When possible, I use both hands on rails. ... Never like climbing/descending ladders or more than several vertical steps while underway. ... Even with high railings, I use a PFD while soloing. An unnoticed, errant/ignored wake could be enough to toss one of their boat.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:42 AM   #38
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That cockpit control is so damn cool. Was it originally on the boat or did you add it during the refit?
It was a manufacturer's option during the build. Pretty easy to replicate on an existing boat. With a twin engines boat, just having engine and transmission controls might be sufficient.

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Old 03-07-2019, 06:58 AM   #39
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When I was shopping for a boat for use in the PNW a flybridge was just about a "must have". After two years of cruising I am surprised and disappointed as to how little I used it.

Boat was a North Pacific 52 Pilot House--so the lower helm was easy to use, doors on both sides, quiet at normal 7 knot cruise. Just didn't often go up there to run the boat.
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:11 AM   #40
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Your loud noise could be due to running powerful engines moving the boat at substantial speed. Pity the galley crew and diners in the saloon who aren't on the remote, elevated flybridge while underway. We don't have that problem using a single 80-HP diesel engine, while occupying either the pilothouse, galley, or saloon.
Yes, those massive 135 Lehman’s are a real pain in the butt for our extensive galley crew and frequent dining companions while underway. Guess it’s time to sell this tub and get a boat with no known issues. Which would you suggest we buy, Mark?
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