Upgrading/changing to electronic controls

[tensim]

Pretty sure you can control your engines from below (from the boxes) in the event of electrical failure, not ideal I fully know (it wouldn't be fun in the engine room even with rear muffs etc) but could be done. Our engine room is pretty big at least, room to move around.

Any thoughts on GD vs Flexball controls from anyone?

 

[rslifkin]

Pretty sure you can control your engines corn below (from the boxes) in the event of electrical failure, not ideal I fully know (it wouldn't be fun in the engine room even with rear muffs etc) but could be done. Our engine room is pretty big at least, room to move around.

Any thoughts on GD vs Flexball controls from anyone?

Depends on the engines. Modern stuff often has no physical throttle lever to move, so no electronic control means no control at all beyond manually shifting the trans (if there's a lever for it).

 

[tensim]

We're changing from morse controls to electronic. Our engines and gearboxes are all mechanical, so we'll have two actuator boxes in the engine room. Might look into the idea of having a backup mechanical station somewhere (I saw someone mention "quick connect" morse adaptors, wonder what they are?)

 

[tensim]

Speaking with the Glendinning rep, their controls now have dual power input (so you could have power from two different battery banks) to reduce/alleviate issues with low voltage. They're also now fully waterproof (as in they'll work submerged underwater) and rated IP68

 

[DW1979OA]

Tensim. Check out “throttle ball joints”. These go on the cable ends at the transmission and throttle. Just slide the outside part back and it pops off of the ball joint. Makes for a quick change over if ever needed.
I didn’t look just now , but I believe that GD had an actuator unit that you can control manually if needed. It cost a lot more and so I opted to go with the standard unit.
The concern with low voltage was addressed with having 2 different battery sources. The one thing I had not considered before is what happens if the power to both sources is reduced. Will the units throttle down and go to neutral. I’m not at the boat today but will try ti investigate tomorrow. Good to know information

 

[tensim]

I noticed the Flexball control units are multi-voltage (9-32V), though the actuator solenoids are either 12V or 24V so I guess that would still be the limiting factor

 

[zigzag930]

Four stations on our Hatteras LRC with Micro commanders. No issues whatsoever. I love the fly-by-wire controls and the ability to take control from any station with the press of a button. If failure occurs I can operate the engines manually from the engine room, which is very easy access and full stand up headroom.

The Micro Commanders also provide engine synchronization which is a nice feature.

I've had mechanical (cable) systems fail on previous boats. Nothing is failure free.

 

[bowball]

Speaking with the Glendinning rep, their controls now have dual power input (so you could have power from two different battery banks) to reduce/alleviate issues with low voltage. They're also now fully waterproof (as in they'll work submerged underwater) and rated IP68

These changes seem like they would solve all the older reliability stories mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[Raffy]

Just the Facts

As someone who has installed both mechanical, pneumatic and electronic controls on everything from a 20ft to a 300ft ship over the last 40 years, I can tell you there is no perfect system. With that being said I have had electronic controls on my vessels for the last 30 years and have never had a major issue. I install these controls with an automatic power sensor that always provides power from two separate battery banks to keep the controls always active.

The advantage of the electronic controls is you get auto synchronization and protection to keep from damaging your transmission from an accidental shift while at a high throttle position. Also you can have multiple stations and they all feel the same.

Most issues I see described in this chat were probably the result of poor installation, or failure to maintain the system. Remember we are operating our boats in one of the most extreme enviorment's and it takes a tool on everything. I tell customers that compare it to driving you car in the ocean and tell me what works a week later.

There are no more mechanical diesel engines being built only electronic, so electronic controls are here to stay.

 

[Simi 60]

There are no more mechanical diesel engines being built only electronic, .

I don't think that is true.

 

[TowLou]

I don't think that is true.

I have yet to see a newer mechanical diesel in my field for 20 plus years now. Id love a new mechanical diesel. Currently I see from 2mw diesel down to 10kw generators. Even new trailer gensets requre to have a def system. Its all for the emissions. Not saying they are not out there and I am talking about a American market.

 

[rslifkin]

There are still mechanical diesels with the new emissions standards, but only in small sizes. Everything in the 100+ hp range is electronic as far as I know.

 

[diver dave]

Its surprising that simple diesels cant be bought.
2stroke outboards still do a booming business in non US markets.

 

[vertigopilot]

I am not well versed in these controls; the first thing I would consider is how many single points of failure there are. A default mode to move to idle/neutral is better than “stuck in gear”, but not good enough.
I saw a system in for test at an EMC lab once, thats promising, but just how many solder joints, mechanical linear actuators and IC’s are in the critical path for success here?
One could ask the same questions for electronic engine controls as well. Yep, they are important, but i know those are extensively tested. As an example, I worked on a factory test system that tested 100% of production Fxxx engine controllers at 100 deg C.

All of the electronic propulsion controls that I've worked on (my small company is focused on electronic propulsion control upgrades and wireless remote control systems on the US West Coast) have default modes that will return gear to neutral and throttle to idle before reaching critical low voltage. Some of them also have options for backup mechanical control.

 

[garbler]

Electronics are the future I guess but let me add a few real life scenarios. One was a big electrical storm that hit Marblehead harbor some years ago. I had seven claims as a result of this storm the damage included everything from incinerated antennae, electronic nav gear with blown power supplies, autopilots with same, electronic throttle & clutch controls and newer electronic black box outboards.

Electronic nav gear was the same old problem, no parts or desire by most manufacturers to fix them as they are not set up for bench repairs generally. The turn over on new electronic nav gear is about three to five years so these guys don’t regularly want to repair or have the parts. Autopilots can be fixed and same with engine controls but electrical surge incidents do blow things up. Outboard motors and newer engine is just a new black box controller. Never saw a Morse cable unit damaged.

Rick

 

[vertigopilot]

Electronics are the future I guess but let me add a few real life scenarios. One was a big electrical storm that hit Marblehead harbor some years ago. I had seven claims as a result of this storm the damage included everything from incinerated antennae, electronic nav gear with blown power supplies, autopilots with same, electronic throttle & clutch controls and newer electronic black box outboards.

Electronic nav gear was the same old problem, no parts or desire by most manufacturers to fix them as they are not set up for bench repairs generally. The turn over on new electronic nav gear is about three to five years so these guys don’t regularly want to repair or have the parts. Autopilots can be fixed and same with engine controls but electrical surge incidents do blow things up. Outboard motors and newer engine is just a new black box controller. Never saw a Morse cable unit damaged.

Rick

There's no doubt that EMP events (like lightning strikes) pose risks to the durability of electronic equipment, but the requency of such a events is fortunately very extremely low for the vast majority of boaters, and for me at least the idea of being without modern electronics (engine management, navionics, rerfigeration, etc.) on a long-range trawler in order to reduce that challenge doesn't make sense. I also like having the redundancy of backup mechanical control, but that usefulness is somewhat limited by the prevalence of computer-controlled engines and all the other gear onboard.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Hmmm, not for me, not for my boat.

If I was forced into it I would be certain there was a manual over ride or shut off.

pete

 

[vertigopilot]

I have to admit that I sometimes daydream about a simple canal boat with an old Lister diesel. Then I wake up and remember how much I rely on electronic charts to keep me off the rocks in Pacific Northwest waters.