Update on Russian Trawler#2

[TheAtomicDog]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this. It looks really interesting. Unfortunately it seems it's only available in North America.

I am looking into whether similar products are available here.

Thanks!

 

[dannc]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this. It looks really interesting. Unfortunately it seems it's only available in North America.

I am looking into whether similar products are available here.

Thanks!

Check out this link, https://mobius.world/mbius-arch-turkish-map-fold-style/, which has quite a bit of information on EPDM insulation. Especially, read the comments. He is building a boat in Turkey, so I would think if he can get the insulation, you can get the insulation.

This might help your search.

Two of the largest brands for EPDM foam are AeroFlex and ArmaCell so a search on those terms and their sites will provide you with good information on their tech specs and properties.

You could also try to contact the guy building Mobius if the search does not work.

This is the link to a blog of a guy, who built his own steel trawler designed by George Buehler, Building Koloa (Kama Hele). He used this type of insulation along with batt insulation.

Both of these blogs have some very useful information.

Later,
Dan

 

[TheAtomicDog]

Hi Dan,

These are both fantastic resources. I really appreciate you letting me know about them. Inspirational projects!

Thanks!

This confirms my thoughts about going a different direction than foam.

I have a solution in mind (2, actually. I will have a different approach for the engine room) that I will discuss when we get to that point.

It is definitely a compromise due to budget considerations, but there is only so much lipstick I am willing to put on a pig

(I love this boat, but it is a 40yo Soviet fishing vessel that spent 3 years on the bottom of the Neva. I have to remind myself that time from time )

 

[dannc]

Not as helpful, but this week I was looking a some photos of an aluminum boat build in the Netherlands. It is hard to tell from the photos, and there is no discussion on the website, but they might have been putting on a layer of EDPM type insulation followed by a foam batt insulation. The photo shows the frames and longitudinals that are black with white between the structural elements. Almost looks like the structure is painted black and white.

From other photos, it looks like they are using a white foam cut to fit between the frames and longitudinals. Never seen a white foam used before. I have no idea what type of foam they are using.

Later,
Dan

 

[FF]

"I am planning the interior now and apart from maintenance access"

Paints are better now but it was common to make the entire interior removable , so the hull could be sand blasted to water white and repainted.

I assume you have one but a needle gun for small rust removing , is very handy.


Here is a cheap one, there are much better.


tps://www.eastwood.com/rockwood-pistol-grip-needle-scaler.html?SRCCODE=PLA00020&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuMiuhZW87wIVhbKGCh1crQELEAQYAyABEgJHr_D_BwE

 

[dannc]

Not sure why I am running into metal boat insulation discussions all of the sudden, but I am.

Just read this from Wayne, who is building the AL Mobius in Turkey. https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-build-24m-aluminum-passagemaker-38080-3.html

Wayne said,

We share your concern about the potential for trapping water between the hull and the insulation and as with any coating the key is in the prep and application so our approach will be to pay very close attention to the installation of the self adhesive EBDM insulation. No different than paint or foam or any other coating applied directly to AL or steel the key is to have really clean surfaces and no voids. Based on the experiences of others using EPDM for insulation on AL boats, and the manufacturers recommendations, the sequencing is to first apply the EPDM to all the ribs, stringers and other AL components which support the AL surfaces and then to butt the EPDM for the larger surfaces up against this, cutting them slightly oversize so they exert a bit of pressure against the EPDM they are butting up against. All seams are sealed with either a sealant, special tape or a sealing strip applied over the seams. Done properly and carefully this seems to prevent any moisture from being able to get between the AL and the EPDM.

It is also important to not have any fasteners or other things which can act as thermal transfers from the exterior to interior so in places where we will need a way to fasten interior panels we will glue small rectangular plastic blocks directly to the AL plate and the EPDM insulation will be cut around these.

Hope this makes sense and provides some answer to your very astute question. If you do some searches on "EPDM boat insulation" or similar you will find lots of examples and explanations of this in much more detail and with lots of pictures and video. ArmaFlex, ArmaCell and AeroFoam are some of the larger manufacturers of EPDM insulation so you can check on their sites for installation guidelines and examples as well.

I can't remember if I read it in this discussion or another, but having water trapped between the insulation and the hull, especially a steel hull, is not a good thing.

Later,
Dan

 

[dannc]

Forgot to add, if EPDM is hard to get, or cost to much money, consider cork clue to the hull after prepping and painting the interior hull.

Later,
Dan

 

[OldDan1943]

Forgot to add, if EPDM is hard to get, or cost to much money, consider cork clue to the hull after prepping and painting the interior hull.

Later,
Dan[/

With the difference between the interior temp and the water temperature you may always experience condensation on the interior hull. The cork, being organic, may deteriorate rapidly. Consider some sort of non-organic material.

 

[OldDan1943]

You are welcome.
That is why we are here.

 

[twistedtree]

Keep in mind that with a steel hull, whatever insulation is in place will have to be removable before any welding repairs. I know a guy who was madly welding everything in sight on a work barge's pontoons prior to filling them with foam. It seemed to me that he was walking himself into a corner with no way out.