Understanding Engine HP??? Caterpillar vs Ford Lehman?

[Irish Rambler]

Tugalert and any other Ford Lehman engine users. Don't despair.
The Ford engines are still being built in Turkey and brand new engines can still be bought. If you get in touch with Mike Bellamy at data@lancingmarine.com or www.lancingmarine.com you'll find all types of marinizing services and parts for not only Ford but also for many other engines. Mercedes, Caterpillar, Perkins, Peugeot, Vetus etc.
OK its in the UK but shipping worldwide is no problem so if you need parts and help he's your man. Service is quick, competitive and he won't shaft you on shipping.
Mikes business is 'hands on' and he has more knowledge of Ford marine diesels than any other man I know.
Support family businesses and give him a wee turn.

 

[Wxx3]

The Ford Lehman was a very good engine. The Super Lehman 135 is the same as a Lehman. 120 and the Super Lehman 90 is the same a Lehman 80. The only problem with those Lehmans is getting parts as they went out of business many years ago. I had a Crosby tug with a 80 that needed work. I re powered it with a 90. Most of the time I ran it at 1750 RPM s. Also had a Lehman 120 with a Warner 73 and 3-1 reduction. If you don't run them at. 2600 but rather 1750 those will last for a very long time. Also had the 120 rebuilt where it ran like new. The red work boat was re powered with a JD.

I'm not sure what's correct in your post?

The Ford Lehman SP135 is a 6 cylinder engine. The SP 120 is 4 cylinder, amoung other things. But who's counting.

American Diesel has all the Lehman parts you could want, at more reasonable prices than the newer competition.

http://americandieselcorp.com

 

[Tugalert]

No, the Ford Lehman 135 6 cly is a up dated Ford Lehman 120 6 cyl engine. Both have the same CID. The Ford Lehman 90 4 cyl is the same as the Ford Lehman 80 4 cyl. I owned the 80,90, and the 120 hp ford Lehmans. Ford Lehman also had a Ford Lehman 150 hp turbo but then again the 150 turbo is the basic Ford Lehman 120 natural. My friend Walter worked at Ford Lehman as well as a Sea Scout leader. The scout boat had the Ford Lehman 150 turbo. Like any marine engine if you add turbo, after blower, etc you can up must engines HP but I'm most applications have a shorter life. When ever I buy a engine I always go for the lowest HP for the engine block CID. Volvo had a 200 hp engine that had the same CID as a 80 hp ford Lehman. Of course the Volvo engine runs as 3800/4000 RPM s. Etc..Etc....Etc.

 

[Art]

I didn't read every post on this thread.... but, enough to get the gist of discussion.

So... figured I'd post what our very comfortable, self equipped, twin screw [510 total hp.], gasoline powered, 34', planing hull, tri cabin Tollycraft does.

A. 4.5 to 5 knots on one engine = nearly 3 nmpg

B. 6.5 to 7 knots [just under hull speed of 7.58 knots] on twins = 2 +/- nmpg

C. 16 to 17 knots on full plane = 1 nmpg

D. 22 + knots on WOT = OMG plus or minus nmpg!

"A" Slow speed is fine in close quarters where 5 mph is required by law.

"B" Is fun gentle cruise speed if not in a rush.

"C" Cruising gets ya there!

"D" Is great to have but seldom utilize - when needed, for short periods.

Happy Boat/Cruising Daze! - Art

 

[Nomad Willy]

Why is this a Ford Lehman thread now?
It started out as a question about why FD boats need so little power (or have so liittle power) compared to SD. Good question or questions.

And usually when people rant and rave that something is so .... it usually isn’t. Or they wouldn’t need to keep claiming.

Art,
I’m glad you sorta changed the subject but you’re not addressing the OP’s question in any way either.

 

[Art]

Why is this a Ford Lehman thread now?
It started out as a question about why FD boats need so little power (or have so liittle power) compared to SD. Good question or questions.

And usually when people rant and rave that something is so .... it usually isn’t. Or they wouldn’t need to keep claiming.

Art,
I’m glad you sorta changed the subject but you’re not addressing the OP’s question in any way either.

Eric - Thanks, I'm glad you're glad!!

Just want to show fairly affordable fun and generally seaworthy alternative to D and/or SD hulls with or without large or small diesel or gasoline engines.

 

[BandB]

Just be brutally honest with yourself regarding what is important to you and how you will use the boat and buy the boat that best fits that profile. Good luck!

Wifey B: Brutally honest and do what is necessary to know, whether chartering or friends or whatever.

We're all different. We once chartered a beautiful older Burger, Top Times. Built in 2003, refitted in 2007. 113'. Beautiful inside and out, no finer workmanship on any boat we've been on. Beautiful review of her here: https://www.yachtforums.com/review/burgers-top-times.1583/

Cruising speed 12 knots. I kept wanting to mash an accelerator to the floor and go faster. Loved the boat but not the speed. Neither hubby nor I could deal with it. Now we chartered for a few days an AB Yacht in Spain that was 116' and cruised in the upper 30's. Liked it. A lot.

The point is it can be an incredible boat but is it right for you. Our lake boat ran over 50 knots. We cruised at 35 and 40. A boat that cruises at 20 knots is still slow to us, but couldn't deal at 12. We love and admire the boats many of you have including those that move at 6-8 knots. Just not for us. You must do what it takes for you to make an informed decision for yourself.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Wify and BandB,
You’re always defending your lust for speed. No need. More people accepr you than me I’m sure. Even if it’s anaddiction that’s fine.

But you do talk about trawler stuff like going slow and watching your fuel burn. You’ve been a pillar of this forum for a long time .. CHEERS

Yes Art you’ve got a big warm heart ... we all know it.

 

[sunchaser]

Wifey
At about $1200 per hour for Euro fuel at 30 knots and $90,000+ per week for charter I'd guess you enjoyed yourself.

 

[Art]

Wify and BandB,
You’re always defending your lust for speed. No need. More people accepr you than me I’m sure. Even if it’s anaddiction that’s fine.

But you do talk about trawler stuff like going slow and watching your fuel burn. You’ve been a pillar of this forum for a long time .. CHEERS

Yes Art you’ve got a big warm heart ... we all know it.

Blush! - And, a not so big wallet!

 

[BandB]

Wify and BandB,
You’re always defending your lust for speed. No need. More people accepr you than me I’m sure. Even if it’s anaddiction that’s fine.

But you do talk about trawler stuff like going slow and watching your fuel burn. You’ve been a pillar of this forum for a long time .. CHEERS

Yes Art you’ve got a big warm heart ... we all know it.

Wifey B: The majority of trawler owners fine our desire for speed crazy, but that's fine. We're not here because we all like the same speed. We're here because we all like the water and cruising and boating of many types. I can find forums where people go faster like us but they don't go anywhere. Forums where people have bigger boats but they never talk about boating.

Before we went to the PNW and then to Alaska, we could read here of others who boated in those areas. If someone wants to know about an area we've been then we can share. It's like the Great Loop. We're outliers, cruised at 26-28 knots a lot. Big deal. We're still just loopers or loopy perhaps. We do want to do even the Trent Severn and West Erie and Dirty, I mean Dismal Swamp. We drove to the Trent Severn and had a look and we drove to the West Erie to see the museum. The list of places we want to go only gets longer.

Where I can't help anyone is questions about replacing the doohicky attached to the thingamabob on the thing that goes zoom.

 

[markpierce]

Burning less than 2 gallons per hour. What? Me worry?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Mark,
I wonder if anyone remembers Mad Magazine.

 

[Tugalert]

Alfred E Newman for President on the Mad@ Liberal party? Oh course for we can still remember those days.

 

[Tugalert]

I can remember when in the mid 60 s the sea scout unit I belong to was paying seven cents per gallon for diesel. We picked it in New York Harbor where the tugs got fuel. The scout vessel was a 65 foot Army T Boat.

 

[Wxx3]

No, the Ford Lehman 135 6 cly is a up dated Ford Lehman 120 6 cyl engine. Both have the same CID. The Ford Lehman 90 4 cyl is the same as the Ford Lehman 80 4 cyl. I owned the 80,90, and the 120 hp ford Lehmans. Ford Lehman also had a Ford Lehman 150 hp turbo but then again the 150 turbo is the basic Ford Lehman 120 natural. My friend Walter worked at Ford Lehman as well as a Sea Scout leader. The scout boat had the Ford Lehman 150 turbo. Like any marine engine if you add turbo, after blower, etc you can up must engines HP but I'm most applications have a shorter life. When ever I buy a engine I always go for the lowest HP for the engine block CID. Volvo had a 200 hp engine that had the same CID as a 80 hp ford Lehman. Of course the Volvo engine runs as 3800/4000 RPM s. Etc..Etc....Etc.

I stand corrected.
That will teach me to get snarky

With your correction, I realize I did confuse the 120 and the 80.

Thanks

 

[Andiamo2018]

Mainship - 'lightly built'

Back to the Mainship question. I know at least some of them are all foam core, even the stringers. On our Kha Shing you can put a lag bolt into the stringers to install a cleat say for a generator battery box shelf. On the Mainship you have to glass in that cleat or thru bolt it because the core is just foam.

I know most folks on TF call any boat under 50k a 'project' boat. I haven't worked on huge numbers of trawlers or even looked at huge numbers of them. But what seemed pretty clear from the beginning is that some boats have lots of stress cracks when they are older vs some that just seem faded.

Mainships seem like the ones that have lots of stress cracks and I know for sure that at least some of them are so thin you have to think twice about just making a shelf for a group 27 battery.

It makes sense to look at lots of boats and find the features you think you will appreciate the most.

We are expecting to eventually sell our boat for at least what it cost us. It has already lost all the value it is going to lose due to age so unless an engine seizes up or we crash into something it isn't depreciating much any more. I'm doing lots of upgrades as projects come up and I do all the work myself which makes a huge difference in cost.

I know plenty of folks who buy boats and pretty much expect them to be almost disposable. Selling for substantially less then it cost to buy isn't unusual at all. If you can afford that then just buy what looks nice at the time. But if you are cheap or just not rich then narrow down the search to builders that are known to be the most solid.

 

[ranger58sb]

Back to the Mainship question. I know at least some of them are all foam core, even the stringers. On our Kha Shing you can put a lag bolt into the stringers to install a cleat say for a generator battery box shelf. On the Mainship you have to glass in that cleat or thru bolt it because the core is just foam.

I dunno... I think the one we had was a solid glass hull, both below and above the waterline...

It's been a long time, though...

-Chris

 

[Andiamo2018]

Hm. I wonder if a solid FB boat would have foam cored stringers. Drilling the hole was the surprise. Slow for 1/4 inch then 3 inches in a half a second

 

[Art]

Hm. I wonder if a solid FB boat would have foam cored stringers. Drilling the hole was the surprise. Slow for 1/4 inch then 3 inches in a half a second

Many Tollycraft [ours included] have thick, woven fabric, solid FG bottom and hull with thick, rugged closed cell foam cored stringers having FG fabric woven into bottom fabric.

 

[BandB]

Hm. I wonder if a solid FB boat would have foam cored stringers. Drilling the hole was the surprise. Slow for 1/4 inch then 3 inches in a half a second

Yes, many over the years have done that. Serves the purpose without adding extra weight.

 

[FF]

"Hm. I wonder if a solid FB boat would have foam cored stringers."

Stringers depend on their shape and the flange contact with the hull.

Cardboard tubes cut in half give the required shape with almost no cost.

They can be used to hide smaller wires too.

 

[Dougcole]

Sorry if my post seemed insulting to your boat, it was not intended that way. I like the Mainships and almost bought one. I did generalize somewhat regarding MPG but have read many Mainship tests and while they're often reported to get about 1 to 1.x mpg at approximately hull speeds, I believe the fuel usage at higher speeds would be cost prohibitive for some folks. My whole point was that while a higher hp engine and higher top speed sounds good, in reality the fuel required for the higher speeds will turn some people off.



Ken

Hey Ken,


Sorry that it took me a while to respond, I have been away from the forum for a while. In no way was I insulted by your post, and I knew you didn't intend it that way. But your response is very gracious and appreciated. Thank you.


You are 100% correct about fuel costs, one man's cheap is another man's catastrophic and if anything, many of the users on this forum tend to place a very high value on the lowest fuel burn possible. With the way we use our boat at this stage in our lives I'm not real hung up on how much fuel I use. Shoot, I wish I was burning more because that would mean I'm using the boat more. Kids, work, a home, stuff gets in the way. But I sometimes forget that other people see it differently and it has a different impact on their lives.



I'm pretty realistic about Mainships overall. I think they are a very good value, and their build quality improved as the years went by. That said our 400 has plenty of things I wish they had done differently, most notably wiring, which is a bit of a mess and I wish they had never decided to anodize the window and door frames.

 

[Dougcole]

Back to the Mainship question. I know at least some of them are all foam core, even the stringers. On our Kha Shing you can put a lag bolt into the stringers to install a cleat say for a generator battery box shelf. On the Mainship you have to glass in that cleat or thru bolt it because the core is just foam.

I know most folks on TF call any boat under 50k a 'project' boat. I haven't worked on huge numbers of trawlers or even looked at huge numbers of them. But what seemed pretty clear from the beginning is that some boats have lots of stress cracks when they are older vs some that just seem faded.

Mainships seem like the ones that have lots of stress cracks and I know for sure that at least some of them are so thin you have to think twice about just making a shelf for a group 27 battery.

I know for a fact that, unfortunately, my boat has a solid glass hull below the waterline and balsa, or some other wood, core in the hull sides. I know this because I drilled a 1" hole through it a couple of weeks ago for a through hull for the new holding tank vent. The glass layup was every bit as thick as my old boat, a 1973 Gulfstar that was considered "heavily built." The stringers are also wood cored. The decks are wood cored as well, or at least the FB deck is, I haven't checked the others. The swim platform als has a wood core.



I just put in a new battery box on my boat for my house bank, which is 4 6V golf cart LA batteries, not a group 27. The battery shelves are glass (both sides and the edges) over 3/4" plywood.


My boat is a 2005, so maybe the older ones were "lightly built," I can't speak to that, but I think you've got some wrong ideas about Mainships in general. That said, they have plenty of issues. Poor wiring practices, some shoddy joinery, poor genset access and other things. They are not a perfect boat or even among the very best built. But they aren't disposable either.



I actually wish that my boat did not have wood cores. IMO, foam coring is a far superior way to build a boat, it doesn't sacrifice strength, is lighter, and has fewer rot problems. No wood construction is a good thing, not a bad one.