Tug conversion

[JWellington]

Again way off base. Lots of room in smaller vessels designed for living aboard...not a commercial tug layout that you want to modify.


You seem to follow a perception of your wishes much better than realities pointed out.

Realities so far: some here dont like tug boat conversions, or the basic looks of them, while some do. Nobody has pointed out any technical problems and some have admitted such conversions been done before. Some seem to like them, but just cant afford it. Some dont seem to think that I know bigger ones exist, both production and custom, or semi custom. Some dont seem interested in threads about interesting boats. And because of such realities, I think that in the future Ill just respond to the serious members here.

 

[JWellington]

JW, I went from a 46 to a 34 and a store room.
If one gets creative, one can find space and places not only for stuff but also places for custom cabinets. The only thing that really cannot be expanded is 'hanging closet'

Exactly, if one is creative , its posible to make adequate room on a 40' boat. I've seen lots of nice ones.

 

[JWellington]

Again, not very smart are you.
I didn't get the stats wrong, I never wrote them.
I quoted them from an article written by somone else.
A smart person would realise that.
.
Did you?
Did you really?

So if I go and look at the video I will see the same confusion there that you have?
You did say you

Oh, so you didn't quote him at all

Add: and yes, I have big fingers doing this on a small keyboard as well but don't seem to have an issue with the spelling.

Have a really great day............but insulting somebody else.

 

[psneeld]

Realities so far: some here dont like tug boat conversions, or the basic looks of them, while some do. Nobody has pointed out any technical problems and some have admitted such conversions been done before. Some seem to like them, but just cant afford it. Some dont seem to think that I know bigger ones exist, both production and custom, or semi custom. Some dont seem interested in threads about interesting boats. And because of such realities, I think that in the future Ill just respond to the serious members here.

Again and again....I have no problem with commercial vessel conversions.

I like workboat looks also.

I just have experience in what fits where and what is practical that I firmly believe you don't and will argue forever. I have pointed out that even with a pilothouse extension, living space for a liveaboard will be tight and other designs be better suited. Sounds like a reasonable technical issue to me.unless you enclose nearly all of the aft deck and that might become a stability issue.

I hope you buy one and try....let me see the pics when done.

Or will this be like the perfect fishing boat conversion as in one of your last threads?

 

[Simi 60]

Have a really great day............but insulting somebody else.

So you don't like it when somone does it to you eh?
Think on that next time before starting something

 

[JWellington]

Again and again....I have no problem with commercial vessel conversions.

I like workboat looks also.

I just have experience in what fits where and what is practical that I firmly believe you don't and will argue forever. I have pointed out that even with a pilothouse extension, living space for a liveaboard will be tight and other designs be better suited. Sounds like a reasonable technical issue to me.unless you enclose nearly all of the aft deck and that might become a stability issue.

I hope you buy one and try....let me see the pics when done.

Or will this be like the perfect fishing boat conversion as in one of your last threads? Some knowledgable guys have said that with all the machinery and massive battery bank down low, and perhaps some form of stabilizers, it shouldcbe fine. Of course anybody doing such conversions shoyld a proper naval archt. should sign off on it...plan it, etc.

Yes, stability is a valid issue/concern. To date Im convinced by others that it would be fine with this small tug boat, as with those fishing boats in other threads.
Re how tight it would be, Im one of those fine with 'capsule style cabins , instead of the massive one many peiple must have, with their walk around beds, so that its easier to sort out the friggin sheets.

 

[GoneDiving]

I'm in the process of doing a refit of an ex commercial prawn trawler. Its initial conversion was done ~25 years ago. Some lessons learnt:

In commercial vessels, noise vibration and harshness take a very distant second priority to creature comforts. Some can be insulated or improved but it will be very difficult or impossible to reach levels in a dedicated pleasure craft. This also includes things like head height, access paths etc.

Most mechanical equipment will be grossly over engineered for pleasure use. This is good for reliability but bad for repair and replacement costs, power etc requirements to operate, fuel usage, and sheer bulk to live around.

Don't underestimate the time effort and money required to remove the unwanted commercial equipment and make good the remaining areas.

Will removing tonnes of steel and stores affect stability?

Good luck

 

[JWellington]

I'm in the process of doing a refit of an ex commercial prawn trawler. Its initial conversion was done ~25 years ago. Some lessons learnt:

In commercial vessels, noise vibration and harshness take a very distant second priority to creature comforts. Some can be insulated or improved but it will be very difficult or impossible to reach levels in a dedicated pleasure craft. This also includes things like head height, access paths etc.

Most mechanical equipment will be grossly over engineered for pleasure use. This is good for reliability but bad for repair and replacement costs, power etc requirements to operate, fuel usage, and sheer bulk to live around.

Don't underestimate the time effort and money required to remove the unwanted commercial equipment and make good the remaining areas.

Will removing tonnes of steel and stores affect stability?

Good luck

Of course all of those are valid points that must be attended to. Many of them have been covered in this thread. But you must be another guy that likes commercial work boat styles. Me too. Indeed, when I look at some new work boats, especially ones made in Europe, they often seem too luxurious for me. For example, in another thread I sent in some living quarters areas pics, and the floors were of some form of wood/engineered wood. I though....why not just the bare aluminum deck plating? Even the galleys were quite fancy. Some advertise the decibel levels living areas reach , etc

 

[markpierce]

Would forward-leaning pilothouse windows be preferred over vertical or backward leaning?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Realities so far: some here dont like tug boat conversions, or the basic looks of them, while some do. Nobody has pointed out any technical problems and some have admitted such conversions been done before. Some seem to like them, but just cant afford it. Some dont seem to think that I know bigger ones exist, both production and custom, or semi custom. Some dont seem interested in threads about interesting boats. And because of such realities, I think that in the future Ill just respond to the serious members here.

And some of us like tugs but just think these are impractical for the reasons given...

 

[JWellington]

Would forward-leaning pilothouse windows be preferred over vertical or backward leaning?

I prefer forward because it illiminates a lot of the normal glare of backward.....less gteenhouse effect too.

 

[SteveK]

And some of us like tugs but just think these are impractical for the reasons given...

except Nordic and American, but I know what you mean, those tugs that these were designed from for pleasure use.

 

[GoneDiving]

But you must be another guy that likes commercial work boat styles. Me too.

Sort of. Practicalities were much higher in my list than appearances. My criteria were:

Hull and equipment reliability and serviceability in remote locations.

Range to avoid back water fuel depots in Asia.

Payload weight and volume for family and dive equipment

Preference for minimal number of continuous deck levels

Ready to motor, final cost.

Good luck with your project

 

[GoneDiving]

Of course all of those are valid points that must be attended to.

I forgot to add, can you insure a converted commercial vessel?? Here, it a strike against for the insurers.

 

[markpierce]

1.5 gph at six knots, making a white mustache:

 

[guy with a boat]

Looking forward to the upcoming thread: “Converting a Pump-Out Boat to a Live Aboard Cruiser”.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

1.5 gph at six knots, making a white mustache:

They call that "running with a bone in your teeth"..

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

except Nordic and American, but I know what you mean, those tugs that these were designed from for pleasure use.

I was only talking about the tugs that were formally in commercial service. He ought to buy a Nordic tug or American tug. That would make more sense

 

[SteveK]

I was only talking about the tugs that were formally in commercial service. He ought to buy a Nordic tug or American tug. That would make more sense

Agreed, I was among a fleet of them at a rendezvous, and if not for my love for the GB, that would be my next boat, one with a CB of course

 

[Snapdragon III]

I think you should definitely have one of these built. It sounds like it would be perfect for you.

 

[twistedtree]

To me the HDPE hull is the most interesting part of that boat, and something that seems to have escaped the discussion. That’s the same stuff my kayaks are made of, I think. I’ve never heard of a large boat made from it. Is it good, bad, or just different? My guess is that nobody knows because nobody has done it before. Or it has been such an utter failure that it was only done once - until now....

 

[Porgy]

I’m sure technology of HDPE has improved and a work boat would have different scantlings than a kayak. My experience with HDPE kayaks is they scratch easily, deeply and near permanently. Prone to oil canning. Subject to UV degradation. Useful life of 10-15 years. Difficult to repair (due to differences in melting and welding temps or something like that I’m told.) If pierced by a sharp object, say the corner of a shipping container they will tear apart like opening a bag of chips. But they are relatively cheap and easy to make, especially in mass market quantities and relatively rugged for banging around abuse. PE kayaks are rotomolded. It would be fun to see how they make a 40’ + tug.

But for a commercial application maybe it works. I went with a Kevlar kayak and never turned back. Eyeballing a carbon/Kevlar canoe now...

 

[JWellington]

I think you should definitely have one of these built. It sounds like it would be perfect for you.

Thanks, I often get people making such recommendations for me. But even I dont think that, nor have said it would be perfect, but rather, that it would be a good boat for many of those who like commercial styles. I dont consider any boat perfect, just some better than others. My facorites are: Arksen 65, Alva 60, Dashew 65, Cape Horn Trawlers, Moen Marin Nabcat 1500. None perfect. Sometimes I I like to present interesting boats here.

 

[JWellington]

To me the HDPE hull is the most interesting part of that boat, and something that seems to have escaped the discussion. That’s the same stuff my kayaks are made of, I think. I’ve never heard of a large boat made from it. Is it good, bad, or just different? My guess is that nobody knows because nobody has done it before. Or it has been such an utter failure that it was only done once - until now....

I mentioned some of its benefits, a few times. One guy said he has owned two already. A few of the Turkish builders specialize in them, various sorts, up to 17meters or so. Check out their sties, some of them list benefits. But you know how it is, many boaters are very conservative and cant accept changes. Look at how some dont een accept that there can be electric or hybrid boats, even though they already exist! Its amazing.

 

[JWellington]

I’m sure technology of HDPE has improved and a work boat would have different scantlings than a kayak. My experience with HDPE kayaks is they scratch easily, deeply and near permanently. Prone to oil canning. Subject to UV degradation. Useful life of 10-15 years. Difficult to repair (due to differences in melting and welding temps or something like that I’m told.) If pierced by a sharp object, say the corner of a shipping container they will tear apart like opening a bag of chips. But they are relatively cheap and easy to make, especially in mass market quantities and relatively rugged for banging around abuse. PE kayaks are rotomolded. It would be fun to see how they make a 40’ + tug.

But for a commercial application maybe it works. I went with a Kevlar kayak and never turned back. Eyeballing a carbon/Kevlar canoe now...

The big boats now made with HDPE are NOT the same as little kayaks. In like manner, tiny aluminum rowboats are not the same as aluminum trawlers/commercial fishing boats.

 

[JWellington]

Here is what a Dutch builder says about HDPE.

WHY
IS HDPE A GOOD MATERIAL FOR BOATS

SIX REASONS WHY HDPE BOATS ARE BEST
Based in the Netherlands, Tideman Boats are one of the leading HDPE workboat manufacturers in Europe. They specialize in producing only one model of boat which is made out of strong and durable HDPE plastic. The workboat is available in three different lengths, plus you can choose a propulsion package, as well as optional extras to customize the boat to your needs.

Tideman Boats are a popular choice for those working in sectors that require strong and rigid boats which are built to last. Tideman workboats are most commonly used in dredging, diving, offshore, military, surveying, security, marine, fish farm, rescue and the service sectors.

So why is HDPE a good material for boats? Read on to find out several of the main benefits of owning a Tideman HDPE workboat.

ZERO CORROSION
HDPE is not affected by salt, oxygen and water. This means that you do not have to rinse the boat after use, so less time needs to be spent on maintenance.

HIGH IMPACT RESISTANCE
Indestructible HPDE is resistance to bumps and scratches, which means it is both tough and flexible – plus it wont be punctured by rocks and other sharp objects.

LOW CARBON FOOTPRINT AND RECYCLABLE
HDPE has a carbon footprint that is five times lower than that of aluminum. HDPE can also be completely remelted and recycled into a new blend. By choosing Tideman HDPE work boats you will be doing your bit for the environment.

FLEXIBLE DESIGNS
Because of the HDPE structure, Tideman Boats can be easily customized to suit your specifications. Things like extra storage compartments or additional seating areas can all be easily welded into your custom boat. Use the special form on the website, or call one of our specialists to discuss your work boat needs.

MARINE GROWTH RESISTANT
Another perk is that the HDPE hull is smooth, and it is completely resistant to marine growth. Gone are the days when you have to scrub away for hours to remove that nasty green sludge, HDPE will stay clean and marine-free all year round.

UV RESISTANT
Tideman Boats are made from black HDPE which is mixed with carbon because so that it is resistant to UV light. While other boat hulls can fade and become brittle due to sun exposure, our boats will remain black and sturdy.

If you want more information on why is HDPE a good material for boats, then head to this section of the Tideman website. Does a Tideman boat sound perfect for your needs? Fill out our configurator, and we will get back to you with a quote.

You can also email us, or give us a call if you want to speak to one of our friendly team directly. From its long-shelf life to its eco-friendly design, a HDPE Tideman workboat is sure to impress.

BACK TO NEWS

Nieuwendammerkade 28C3
1022 AB Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Workshop/showroom:
Neutronweg 5F
1627 LG Hoorn
The Netherlands

TIDEMAN BOATS
+31 20 22 39 034
info@tidemanboats.com
VAT: NL 855523487B01

 

[JWellington]

More about HDPE from this other builder

https://www.nektonbot.com/hdpe

 

[Circumnavigator]

Tugs of all sizes make poor conversion candidates. Fundamentally this is because their engines are much larger than would be normal on a yacht of the same displacement.


This, in turn, means that much of the interior volume is taken up with engine. You can't simply remove the engine, because its considerable weight is needed for stability. IF you remove it and replace the weight differential with extra ballast, you will have to be very careful locating the ballast -- if you put it all down low, the easiest place to put it, then the boat will be far too stiff and will have a very sharp snap roll. Anyone who has been in a sailboat without her mast will know what I mean.


Jim

 

[Alaskaflyer]

I love the look of tugs and think that living and boating on one would be great fun until reality sits in. Different needs than the OP, but to add to Jim’s list above, there’s the large amount of otherwise-unused open deck space, low or no real bulwarks which typically have no safety railing either. Which makes sense for a working tug but not so much for a recreational boat esp with kids and pets on board.

Since I enjoy the eye candy appeal of liveaboard tugs I take a closer look at all I find on the internet. I’m struck by the number of larger ones sporting only one real stateroom, or maybe two for the reasons Jim mentioned. I’ve only seen one (leaving aside the million dollar ones floating around Europe) that I’d consider and that one has the original Washington Iron Works engine which basically requires dedicated engineering attendance while underway. Not exactly great for a cruising family and the insurance must be eye watering.

Yes I know this is all beyond what the OP asked about

 

[john-o]

This probably a bad comparison, but, when I was a kid my folks and I visited my grandfather who lived in Hoboken, N.J.
He had a very good friend who owned a commercial tug that serviced both sides of the Hudson. We visited his friend and he was gracious enough to take us out for a "push". What I found was, in the steer house, the engine noise was not a pleasant experience. The power necessary to push that monster through the waters and against some currents, was massive. All through the trip, it was a constant.... "WHAT..... i CAN'T HEAR YOU..... WHAT!"
Possibly on a smaller vessal it might not be as bad. But still. the power plant to slug it out against waves and currents, gotta give some to get some.