Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-15-2021, 04:09 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Long Island, NY
Vessel Name: Boatless
Vessel Model: In Search of a 40'er!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 44
Trawler VS Express (Space vs Speed)?

I'm sure this has been discussed a million times on here, but lets make it one million and one, to help me solve the pickle I'm in!


Sold my 30 Rampage (a sport-fish). Wife an I were doing more and more cruising and I was doing less and less fishing. So we decided to move into a 40ish cruiser with a bit more comfort and space, and do some long range cruising (2 months to 6 months...). Where? New England area, up Hudson to Canada (1000 islands...), maybe the northern mini-loop, down east coast to Bahama's, maybe BVI's.... Who knows, maybe just stay local around Long Island...


So I've been looking at and searching for a 40' Downeast style boat for many years, 38' and 42' Sabre, 40 and 42' Legacy Yachts, Backcove, GB, East Bay.... these are all twins, 20 to 25 knot cruise boats. But they always seem to be missing something for us. Can't seem to find the perfect layout for us. So I started expanding to other styles, trawlers in particular. I absolutely LOVE the idea of a trawler, relaxed slow navigation, take your time..... but my wife doesn't quite like the idea of taking 9 hours to get to a place that used to take us 2 or 3 hours tops. She is also a Nervous Nelly and likes to have the ability to avoid weather, get to a Dr... in a hurry. But, she is starting to come around when looking at all the space and options available in similar sized 40' trawlers. 2 Staterooms, 2 heads, huge spacious engine rooms, storage space, water makers...


So the question to you guys is, how hard is it to go from 25 knot cruise to a 6 or 8 knot cruise? Did it kill you?? Was it an easy transition? A nightmare? Good and bad?



I know there are some "Fast Trawlers" out there that are kind of in between the 8 and 25 knot range, but most of the trawlers I'm drawn to seem to be the slower ones. Krogen, Nordhavn, Great Harbour...


HELP! I need a boat! First time I'm boatless in 40 years!
__________________
Advertisement

Birdman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 04:14 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,939
How much you care about the speed will really depend on your personality and cruising style.

If you prefer the faster cruising speed, there are plenty of motoryacht types out there that will give 95% of the space and comfort of a trawler, be 90% as good at going slow, 90% as efficient at low speed, but can cruise in the high teens all day if you want to pay the fuel bill. They'll still be slower than a lot of express cruiser types, but many will have hull designs that ride better and are a lot more usable at low speed compared to an express cruiser that's only meant to drop off plane for no wake zones, then right back to light speed.

My own boat cruises quite comfortably in the 6.5 - 7 kt range, or on plane at 16 - 18 kts. Being on plane is nearly 2.5 times the fuel burn per mile compared to going slow. Space wise, I'd say it's got just as much usable space and interior comfort as most similarly sized trawlers.
__________________

rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 04:15 PM   #3
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,150
It's not that hard if you are in the right frame of mind for it.

If you are in a hurry, flying or driving is always an option. If not, relax and enjoy the trip.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 04:26 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
City: Long Island, NY
Vessel Name: Boatless
Vessel Model: In Search of a 40'er!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
How much you care about the speed will really depend on your personality and cruising style.

If you prefer the faster cruising speed, there are plenty of motoryacht types out there that will give 95% of the space and comfort of a trawler, be 90% as good at going slow, 90% as efficient at low speed, but can cruise in the high teens all day if you want to pay the fuel bill. They'll still be slower than a lot of express cruiser types, but many will have hull designs that ride better and are a lot more usable at low speed compared to an express cruiser that's only meant to drop off plane for no wake zones, then right back to light speed.

My own boat cruises quite comfortably in the 6.5 - 7 kt range, or on plane at 16 - 18 kts. Being on plane is nearly 2.5 times the fuel burn per mile compared to going slow. Space wise, I'd say it's got just as much usable space and interior comfort as most similarly sized trawlers.

Thanks! As for the "motor yachts", most of the ones I see have a raised back/aft cabin. That will not work for me. I have to at least have a cockpit at the stern, so it can be fished from time to time, or just lounging in/on....



Anyone have any models of "motor yachts" with a decent sized cockpit on stern, island bed in master, dry head (separate shower), twin diesels, small 2nd stateroom/office desk, can run efficient at 8 knots, or blast 15 or 20 knots... feel free to post em up!! HELP!! NEED BOAT!~!!!
Birdman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 04:32 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
Anyone have any models of "motor yachts" with a decent sized cockpit on stern, island bed in master, dry head (separate shower), twin diesels, small 2nd stateroom/office desk, can run efficient at 8 knots, or blast 15 or 20 knots... feel free to post em up!! HELP!! NEED BOAT!~!!!

You'll generally want a CPMY (cockpit motoryacht) type for that requirement. Size of the cockpit varies, but there are plenty of CPMY designs out there.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 05:22 PM   #6
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,329
Speed: depends on what your goals are. If highly destination focused, than 18+ kts is the right answer. My wife and I genuinely enjoy "life at jogging speed." For us, it's a mindset. It's a tortoise vs hare thing I suppose.

You may want to consider Sedan style layouts. They are open to the cockpit and pretty roomy. Downside is the two staterooms are right next to each other.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...uropa-3732688/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...ne-40-3617588/

I too like the Sabre style express cruisers. Makes me want a navy blue blazer and a new set of topsiders.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 05:27 PM   #7
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Speed: depends on what your goals are. If highly destination focused, than 18+ kts is the right answer. My wife and I genuinely enjoy "life at jogging speed." For us, it's a mindset. It's a tortoise vs hare thing I suppose.

To me, having the choice, it all depends on where we're going. If there's good scenery, calm water, etc. then going slow can be wonderful and relaxing. But running down Lake Ontario a few miles offshore, there's not exactly much interesting scenery. Every once in a while it's nice to go slow, but the rest of the time, it's nice to knock out a run like that quickly and get to somewhere worth slowing down for.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 05:36 PM   #8
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,329
Yea, I know all the arguments for being able to go fast. Nothing says you have to throttle-up. It's just not how we roll. And I really like a modest sized single diesel with some room to work.

Notice there isn't a word about economy or efficiency. I'm not saying it makes no difference, we just like life at jogging speed. It just feels more natural and connected to the environment to us. I can't really explain it well, and no disrespect to those who want to go faster. Jogging speed works for us.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 05:49 PM   #9
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,719
Personally, I did not miss the 25 to 30 mph speed my Chris Craft was able to obtain. (Older 32 foot Connie with a pair of 327 gassers) My sweet spot was around 20 mph and I generally ran there. Here is what I did not like: A) the gas dock was ALWAYS my first stop when arriving at a new port, B) Although it was conceivable, and generally on my mind, I never ran out of gas. Although I came close a couple times, C) NOISY!!, D) Vibration, E) I was always obsessed with what could go wrong with most of my machinery operating at its peak. Engines, Alternators, fuel pumps, Water pumps, etc, F) The "lookout" for debris, logs, etc. was sometimes a challenge requiring more than one person, G) Auto pilot was not a great idea at higher speeds, H) Walking around, climbing stairs, cooking a meal or even preparing a snack became a big chore and very difficult, I) Tuneups.

The advantages are usually the corollaries to these items but there are more. Like extra room, arriving at a new port relaxed, refreshed, or maybe even freshly up from a nap.

Really the only advantages that come to my mind about higher speed travel is the ability to outrun a storm or bad weather. Generally though, I just don't go out in bad weather. It is true that I have sat for a day, or a couple days in a place I didn't plan on spending a couple days in, but they were ALWAYS good days!

pete
Pete Meisinger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 05:56 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: Long Island, NY
Vessel Name: Boatless
Vessel Model: In Search of a 40'er!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
To me, having the choice, it all depends on where we're going. If there's good scenery, calm water, etc. then going slow can be wonderful and relaxing. But running down Lake Ontario a few miles offshore, there's not exactly much interesting scenery. Every once in a while it's nice to go slow, but the rest of the time, it's nice to knock out a run like that quickly and get to somewhere worth slowing down for.

The "choice" definitely entices me!! I just don't see many models with the choice that I like/or that have what I'm looking for. The hope is, to get some more ideas (makes/models) here, as for the most part I only know the "mainstream" makes... To add, I generally LOVE the one of a kind or different type stuff, I'm not a fan of the get what everyone else has... As far as I'm concerned, the Searay principles should be in JAIL!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Yea, I know all the arguments for being able to go fast. Nothing says you have to throttle-up. It's just not how we roll. And I really like a modest sized single diesel with some room to work.

Notice there isn't a word about economy or efficiency. I'm not saying it makes no difference, we just like life at jogging speed. It just feels more natural and connected to the environment to us. I can't really explain it well, and no disrespect to those who want to go faster. Jogging speed works for us.

Peter

I can totally understand that point of view. There have been many times I wish my old boat went slow! Sometimes running 24 knots can be a bit of a white knuckle situation where I boat. VERY shallow water, tight channels... And when your not in a hurry, enjoying the view/ride can be the best part of a cruise often!
Birdman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 06:11 PM   #11
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,329
Protected running gear is a very hand feature. We used to cruise the Delta out of San Francisco. We took a side channel of about 12 miles and when it re-entered the river, it was stilted-in a bit. So we're 50 feet from the river and faced with either plowing a trough or retreating 12 miles. It was a rising tide, so we went for it. No way I'd do that without a well protected prop.

Not exactly a normal occurrence but does demonstrate that we draw a little over 4 feet, about the same as a buddy with a power cat. He won't go close to 6 foot water depth. I stop when I touch.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 07:45 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Flatswing's Avatar
 
City: Windmill Harbour, Hilton Head Island, SC
Vessel Name: River Girl
Vessel Model: 2004 DeFever 49 RPH
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 249
“but my wife doesn't quite like the idea of taking 9 hours to get to a place that used to take us 2 or 3 hours tops. She is also a Nervous Nelly and likes to have the ability to avoid weather, get to a Dr... in a hurry. “
Listen to yourself! Unless you are retired &/or willing to wait days/weeks for good weather windows, you already know the answer. 😉
Flatswing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 08:17 PM   #13
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 710
Hi Bird,

Do you really want to go more than 40-60nm in a typical cruising day? We switched 18 years ago from 16-18 knots during our first 12 years to a much more relaxed 6.5 knots, and now 7-8. Got us where we wanted to go (primarily on the Inside Passsage), and we liked it much better for all the reasons cited by Pete M.

In our Nordic Tug we usually do 30-60nm. We can do 100nm or more in a day if necessary, but rarely wish to. Slower is so much more pleasant. And we have to bother with a fuel dock only after 600-800nm.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065) Poulsbo WA
Previously: New Moon (Bounty 257), C-Dory 22 Cruiser
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 08:47 PM   #14
Guru
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: 50` US Navy Utility trawler conversion
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 961
I think the 2-6 month cruise doesn't favor speed as much as local cruising. If that's what you're optimizing for I'd suggest that speed shouldn't be a priority.

A lot of urgency disappears on a trip up the Hudson. Or it should anyway. Go slow, fill up your fuel tanks before crossing the Canadian border. Plan on 50 mile days and allow yourself time to stop and explore at whim. There is no requirement and very few advantages for speed.

From a practical point of view, dropping the speed constraint opens up a big group of boats.
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 08:59 PM   #15
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,329
I like running long distances. Just appeals to me. Going slow is often the fastest way to reach a destination due to increased range. I have several examples that over the course of 700 nms, doing 8-9 knots nonstop is a helluva lot faster than doing 18 kts and stopping for fuel each day.

Just depends on how you use the boat and your cruising grounds. If you still work and have limited vacation time, a faster boat makes a lot of sense.

A frequent TF contributor recently sold an Ocean Alexander 42 (I think) sedan/convertible. Nice boat and layout. A civilized version of a sport fish.

Here's a sistership.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...sedan-3749945/

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 09:16 PM   #16
Guru
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: 50` US Navy Utility trawler conversion
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Protected running gear is a very hand feature. We used to cruise the Delta out of San Francisco. We took a side channel of about 12 miles and when it re-entered the river, it was stilted-in a bit. So we're 50 feet from the river and faced with either plowing a trough or retreating 12 miles. It was a rising tide, so we went for it. No way I'd do that without a well protected prop.

Not exactly a normal occurrence but does demonstrate that we draw a little over 4 feet, about the same as a buddy with a power cat. He won't go close to 6 foot water depth. I stop when I touch.

Peter
Heh. I pumped a lot of mud through the cooling system on my Mainship 34.

The protection doesn't apply only to grounding but also to debris. I've gone through/over a lot of debris on the waterways without issue. In a MY I would have been far more cautious, and probably less fortunate in escaping serious damage.

Lobster pots too, now that I think of it... have we talked you into a single yet?
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 09:23 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
AZ2Loop's Avatar
 
City: Carefree, AZ and Ft. Myers Beach, FL
Vessel Name: Sea-N-Stars
Vessel Model: 1990 49' Albin
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
Anyone have any models of "motor yachts" with a decent sized cockpit on stern (check), island bed in master (check), dry head (separate shower) (check and check), twin diesels (check -- twin Cummins), small 2nd stateroom/office desk (check), can run efficient at 8 knots (check), or blast 15 or 20 knots (check)... feel free to post em up!! HELP!! NEED BOAT!~!!!
Birdman, not that you would want our boat (you are likely considering newer and nicer boats than ours), but you just described our boat. It checks every box mentioned in your paragraph above.
My point is not that our boat is for you. In fact it is not even on the market. My point is that what you are looking for is not hard to find. The style you are describing in your criteria (as rslifkin said above) is a "Cockpit Trawler" or "Cockpit Motoryacht". Ours was called a 49' Cockpit Trawler by Albin back in the day. Camargue also made a cockpit style trawler and there are a couple of those owners on here as well. There are several others. The cockpit is the key distinction.

The style is not as common as other trawlers, but it is out there and you can find them.
AZ2Loop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 10:19 PM   #18
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,158
Hurry, hurry, hurry, I want to get to the destination in a hurry!! ... That's what automobiles and airplanes are for.

That's not my practice when choosing by boat.
Attached Thumbnails
San Joaquin River.jpg  
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 10:56 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,652
You are coming to a trawler forum and asking about speed, the majority answer will be no surprise. Go to a sailing forum and ask about power versus sail, you can guess the answer.

Above some one said that speed is well suited for local waters and I agree with that more because of the cost of fuel. When some one asks me what kind of boat my response is, what kind of cruising are you going to be doing 95 % of the time. Mostly long distances - trawler or sail. More local waters, you just want to be there and have more fun when you get there, then something faster.

Here in Vancouver, and I suspect in Washington coastal waters and other coastal areas, sailboaters have in mind that really big trip with their sailboat. About 95 % of them never make that trip, its almost all local waters, no surprise here really. I was talking to a woman who spent some of her youth on her fathers sailboat. She said his really big trip was from Vancouver to Victoria and back, the one and only big trip. The rest of his cruising was to the Gulf Islands and a few times up to Desolation.

That same trip in a Back Cove or Cutwater from Vancouver to Victoria probably could be done in 5 hours rather than the two days it probably took sailing. I am writing an article for a local mag about express cruisers. I have modified an old saying to this - "if you get on a power boat, you are going somewhere. If you get on a sailboat, you are already there. If you get on an express cruiser, you were there yesterday." So what are your priorities, try to think of what you will be doing the most with the boat you have and is it well suited for that task.
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2021, 06:39 AM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,068
Here is the absolute definitive answer:

Rent a trawler for a week and go cruising. At the end of the week you should have your answer. And yes, there are places that rent trawlers. There's one here in SW FL.

Ted
__________________

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×