Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2019, 09:00 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: Rancho Bernardo
Vessel Name: Pearl Grace
Vessel Model: Marine Trader/Sun Deck 44
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 160
Transmission Service Prop alignment

I have the Borg Warner 72c's and was getting ready to do an oil change. Reading through the Borg Warner Velvet drive Owners Manual it mentions a propeller shaft coupling shaft alignment and recommends it be done after a haul out.

It seems fairly straight forward with a feeler gauge, is it something you guys here do routinely after a haul out?
Derik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 09:09 AM   #2
Guru
 
City: Anacortes
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,189
You will find more knowledge about dripless shaft seals and dripless packing than shaft alignment.

It’s not rocket science, but it can be tedious. Good alignment makes for leak free packing glands too. Well worth doing a time or two. Then you can pay someone like I do.
ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 09:16 AM   #3
Guru
 
Cigatoo's Avatar
 
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic #715
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
The boat can flex when hauled out so that the shaft alignment is thrown off. Probably worth measuring the gap once the boat is back in the water and has sat for a while. If you are not hauling the boat just loosen the shaft coupling, rotate, and measure the gap at 4 points around the coupling.
Cigatoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 09:50 AM   #4
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
This is from the BW manual
Attached Thumbnails
Capture 2.jpg  
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 11:18 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,611
It doesn't hurt to check alignment visually or with feeler gauge and shaft run out with a dial indicator. Any problems should be apparent. As previously mentioned, should be done with boat in the water.

I don't check mine on a routine basis. Marina hauls many boats each year including mine. Haven't heard of any problems. If I detect any unusual vibrations then alignment is on the checklist.
SoWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 11:27 AM   #6
Guru
 
kapnd's Avatar
 
City: hawaii
Vessel Name: #31
Vessel Model: ex-Navy MUB 50 fish/cruise
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 873
Propulsion motors that ride on soft mounts are actually impossible to align correctly, nonetheless, I always try to do the best possible job.
Alignment is necessarily done with the motor switched off, and no load on the propeller, however the moment it is put in gear, and torque loads are applied, everything changes.
Many boats run successfully for many years with very poor alignment, so maybe high precision alignment is just overrated!
My current ride has hard mounts, no rubber, and I feel confident that the alignment is spot on, even when high torque is applied.
The downside to hard mounts is irritating vibration at idle, so if I’m idling for any period of time, I’ll bump it up to 800, where it smooths out nicely.
__________________
You can lead a horse to water,
But you can't make him ski...
kapnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 12:32 PM   #7
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat View Post
...I don't check mine on a routine basis. Marina hauls many boats each year including mine. Haven't heard of any problems. If I detect any unusual vibrations then alignment is on the checklist.
Same here so unless I see or feel a problem I don’t touch it. Hobo’s full displacement so the rpms are kept down.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 12:24 AM   #8
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
.......................

It seems fairly straight forward with a feeler gauge, is it something you guys here do routinely after a haul out?
what are you planning to do with the feeler gauge, serious question? you are doing an oil change, you have no need to separate the shaft from the trans.
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 12:58 AM   #9
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,023
Wood boats are more likely to need an alignment check than fiberglass or metal. The smaller the boat, the more rigid the hull. I have found that an owner with the knowledge does a better alignment than the typical marina mechanic.

I check mine once a year, usually in the spring or anytime I hear an unusual noise or vibration. But I have a wood boat.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 01:57 AM   #10
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Wood boats are more likely to need an alignment check than fiberglass or metal. The smaller the boat, the more rigid the hull. I have found that an owner with the knowledge does a better alignment than the typical marina mechanic.

I check mine once a year, usually in the spring or anytime I hear an unusual noise or vibration. But I have a wood boat.
Bolded, why is that? This, not sure I understand.
And what would you do if yours is out of alignment. This, have you found it out of alignment.
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 08:49 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
City: Rancho Bernardo
Vessel Name: Pearl Grace
Vessel Model: Marine Trader/Sun Deck 44
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 160
http://www.tadiesels.com/assets/docs...anual_0001.pdf

This link describes the alignment with a feeler gauge.

I changed the oil but didn't remove the cooler hose due to the fact the boats sat for a week and all the oil should have drained to the sump.
Derik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #12
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
Bolded, why is that? This, not sure I understand.
And what would you do if yours is out of alignment. This, have you found it out of alignment.

I'd expect than when a wood boat flexes on haulout, etc. it's more likely to un-flex back to a slightly different position. While fiberglass is more likely to un-flex back to right where it started.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 10:25 AM   #13
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
When your boat gets hauled, make sure they block it correctly. One haul out the guys just put one block way forward and one way aft, had to align it in that condition because of some shaft work and it was way off once back in the water. I think ABYC says something like a minimum of 4 blocks and a maximum fo 6' between them. Also they should be putting wedges in tight as they let it down, not just to the nearest 2x6.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 10:29 AM   #14
Guru
 
ben2go's Avatar
 
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
I have the Borg Warner 72c's and was getting ready to do an oil change. Reading through the Borg Warner Velvet drive Owners Manual it mentions a propeller shaft coupling shaft alignment and recommends it be done after a haul out.

It seems fairly straight forward with a feeler gauge, is it something you guys here do routinely after a haul out?

Two part series on shaft alignment. It may be a smaller boat but the procedure is the same or very similar. It's not difficult but very tedious the first time or two it seems.






__________________
This is my signature line. There are many like it but this one is mine.

What a pain in the transom.

ben2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 12:55 PM   #15
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Wood boats are more likely to need an alignment check than fiberglass or metal. ...............
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I'd expect than when a wood boat flexes on haulout, etc. it's more likely to un-flex back to a slightly different position. While fiberglass is more likely to un-flex back to right where it started.
Googled this and cannot find any support to make general comments. If you have a reason to make such a statement based on some fact I truly would like to know.
I also could not find that any hull type flexes more or less than the other as a general rule. There are wood, metal and glass hulls made rigid or that flex due to poor design and cost cutting. These are usually copy cat boats of a popular style. In fact I was surprised to read an article on KK and Hatteras cored hulls needing to be re-cored due to poor layup, again not a generality.
I also read where some glass hulls flex noticeably on haul out, as in you can see the flex. I also read that a well designed and built boat of any material will ensure a rigid hull at least along the drivetrain to have no flex.

I also found it interesting that the owner manual had instruction for alignment but the service manual did not not. The original install manual has the same alignment instruction as owner manual, initial and once per year checks. I have flexible shaft couplings.
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 10:27 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
City: Rancho Bernardo
Vessel Name: Pearl Grace
Vessel Model: Marine Trader/Sun Deck 44
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 160
With further observation it appears I have the dreaded CR2 transmission not the 72c. They have 1650 and 1560 hours. they both operate fine but fluid on the port side was very dirty.
Derik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 10:59 AM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,151
On that U tube shaft alignment...on bigger boats it should really be done in the water and probably should have 2 hose clamps on the packing hose if there is room and on a decent gland there will be.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 11:32 AM   #18
Guru
 
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
With further observation it appears I have the dreaded CR2 transmission not the 72c. They have 1650 and 1560 hours. they both operate fine but fluid on the port side was very dirty.
Nothing to dread about. CR2's are solid as a rock. Wouldn't run them in reverse all day at full throttle but otherwise they are simply overdesigned 71C's with a special reduction gear.

Keep the ATF changed, they will last forever. Dirty fluid probably indicates worn clutch plates but nothing to be concerned about.
SoWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 02:03 PM   #19
Veteran Member
 
cdsailor's Avatar
 
City: St. Joseph
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post
With further observation it appears I have the dreaded CR2 transmission not the 72c. They have 1650 and 1560 hours. they both operate fine but fluid on the port side was very dirty.
The issue with the CR2's is that some specific - and critical - parts are increasingly hard to find, which means that rebuilds may be anywhere from $1300 to several thousand depending upon what's wrong. So, with that in mind, they ought to be treated well and maintained carefully. Ensure clean fluid at the proper level (factor cooler capacity into that level). Change fluid regularly. Shift in and out of gear at idle speed only. Maintain proper shaft alignment. Investigate any odd noises or behavior promptly.

One of your gears will rotate opposite the engine, indicated by an "O" designation on the model/serial plate. Those gears have a reversing gear that is held in place with an interference fit. Forty years of motoring at a 10-14 degree down angle can coax those gears loose. When that happens, they walk into the large ring gear in the reduction housing and start chewing up the teeth. You don't want that to happen.

Anyway, more than you asked about, but it's good to know what you have and how best to keep it going for many more hours. Given the low hours on your gears, I suspect you have at least a couple thousand worry-free hours ahead of you.

David

PS - And if you've never checked your alignment, it might be a good idea.
cdsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 10:19 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: Rancho Bernardo
Vessel Name: Pearl Grace
Vessel Model: Marine Trader/Sun Deck 44
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 160
CR2 Transmissions

I hope mine work for another 1500-2000 hours. I talked to American diesel today and he didn't seem to be a big fan and didn't think a rebuild when needed would be money well spent. The alternative seems much more expensive and if a rebuild means 4000 plus hours then I'll probably go that route. Hopefully I have plenty of time to ponder.
Derik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012