Trans-Atlantic in a semi-disp hull?? Yes

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Slow Lane
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2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Is this Elling E6 hull unique or have other builders in the past built a SD hull before that is capable of crossing oceans?

Interesting design. I can't imagine crossing the Atlantic in a semi-displacement rig....Even if it is 65' by 18' and fully stabilized, I think I'd be more trusting in an N43 that is 20 feet smaller. The Elling is BEAUTIFUL though.


Elling E6 Yacht Specification | Elling Yachts
 
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I'd trust it.

This is a very different beast that the typical top heavy SD trawler. Self righting, I believe.

Having been in fairly big seas in a fully loaded expedition sea kayak with most of the weight near or below the waterline, I can see this boat behaving in much the same way (those who have done it will know how stable a fully loaded wide beam sea kayak really is) especially if it had a gyro.
 
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I think "transatlantic capability" is kind of a meaningless term. It would be more helpful to say "this boat can handle 20 foot seas, and 50 kt winds" or something like that, but even that isn't all that specific. Consider the two boats pictured below; the small boat crossed the Atlantic, and the Cruise ship sank while it was anchored.
 

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If it can carry enough fuel, most any hull shape could go the distance.

The hassle is a storm with waves breaking on deck or against the on deck structures.

The chance of a storm wave tossing the boat from crest into a trough is why ocean scantlings differ from along shore
construction.

The reason offshore boats cost so much more.
 
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Hull type by itself is no real measure of seaworthiness.
 
The E4 is on my short list, FD SD, no measure of seaworthiness, most rescue/ pilot boats are SD...A couple of E 4 ‘s crossed into Russia years ago with bladders on deck...Elling is a very safe seaworthy vessel..
 
For an indication of SD seaworthiness, look no further than the CG training videos for the Columbia Bar.
 
Impressive build quality

I took a good look at one two years ago. Definitely different from any US or asian boat I have been on in terms of layout and style but I didn't find anything remotely bad in terms of build quality. I think it may have been a E3 and the happy owners were moving up to bigger one.
 
There are many semi-displacement hulls more than capable of handling very rough seas. The limitation many face is range, but just look at yachts like Westport and Hatteras and Heesen. Our Riva could cross but only has range of 200-250 nm.

Elling has good sea worthiness but not significantly more than some other boats in it's range, just more promoted. Sort of like Nordhavn, with sea worthiness, but no more capable of ocean crossing than several other brands in it's size range.

The self righting is half impressive and half a gimmick. Ideal controlled conditions. Doesn't mean if you flip in the middle of the ocean, you're going to self right and just continue on your merry way but does mean the boat has excellent stability and ability to handle waves.

Many semi-displacement boats handle rough seas as well or better than comparable full displacement. A couple of days ago when the Miami show let out, all the Viking and Hatteras boats were moving north. They were all running offshore in 6' of seas at 25-30 knots sort of in a SF caravan. There was a total group of about 8 or 9 boats ranging from the 45' Hatteras to the 90'. Oh, must add too that the 45' Hatteras and the 41' Cabo both handle rough seas incredibly well from all the reports I get.

We intend to one day cross the Atlantic and the Pacific and it will be in a much larger semi-displacement or better called a semi-planing boat capable of 25 knots, cruises at 20 knots, but the crossing will have to be at 10-15 knots due to range.

Most of the "trawler" owners I see on the East Coast do the majority of their cruising in the ICW. Many consider 3' or 4' waves to be bad. That has far more to do with their tolerance for rough seas than it does with the capabilities of the boats. Staying inside also is based on their lack of speed making outside runs more time consuming rather than less. Then as to comfort, they're unable to adjust speed to achieve more comfortable matches to the wave heights and periods. They may struggle with aft or stern waves while a semi-displacement would just speed up slightly to eliminate the issue.

All these labels of displacement and semi-displacement and trawler and fast trawler and planing and semi-planing really say nothing about sea worthiness.
 
CE Certifications

Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.

Category B – Offshore: includes boats operating offshore with winds to 40 knots and significant seas to 13 feet.

Category C – Inshore: is for boats operating in coastal waters and large bays and lakes with winds to Force 6, up to 27 knots, and significant seas 7 feet high.

Category D – Inland or sheltered coastal waters: is for boats in small lakes and rivers with winds to Force 4 and significant wave heights to 18 inches.
 
Rated CE Ocean Category A, by those who are working with a tad more information than we are: Elling E6 Yacht Specification | Elling Yachts

Murray
Nice vessels in many respects. Some years ago we seriously looked at one. On the minus side was cramped machinery space, designed like a sailboat motor arrangement as I recall.

I don't totally agree with BB though on the roll over being primarily a marketing ploy. Yes it was done under controlled conditions. But more importantly doors, hatches, Windows, vents and through hulls got a good water integrity test.
 
I don't totally agree with BB though on the roll over being primarily a marketing ploy. Yes it was done under controlled conditions. But more importantly doors, hatches, Windows, vents and through hulls got a good water integrity test.

Well, you don't agree with something I never said. I didn't say it was primarily a marketing ploy. I said it was half impressive, half gimmick. I'd put it in the same framework as the unsinkable Boston Whaler. It wasn't the first or only unsinkable boat, but the first to sell tons of boats by marketing it.

The Elling boats are impressive, but the rollover test doesn't means they are substantially safer at sea than many other boats of similar designs. I'll stick to my "half impressive, half a gimmick" but I did not say "primarily a marketing ploy." I would say a very good marketing demonstration based on a unique ability to perform in a certain test which indicated an ability to right itself in certain conditions.

If you want to argue with anything I actually say, feel free to do so, but please don't attribute statements to me that I just didn't make.
 
I would have thought that ‘gimmick’ and ‘marketing ploy’ were synonymous. But maybe my English ain’t so good.
 
Trans- Atlantic non-displacement hull:
 

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The self righting is half impressive and half a gimmick.
You are correct. You did not say it was a marketing ploy, you said it was a gimmick. But seeing as how you're playing semantics please note I did not use quotation marks.
 
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I can't imagine crossing the Atlantic in a semi-displacement rig....Even if it is 65' by 18' and fully stabilized,

You have pretty described Tony's Fleming 65 "Venture" which has crossed many oceans.
 
I know of at least one guy who took a Fleming 55 across, there use to be a somewhat humorous article by him on the Fleming website.
 
I would have thought that ‘gimmick’ and ‘marketing ploy’ were synonymous. But maybe my English ain’t so good.

But I didn't say that it was primarily a gimmick. I said half impressive, half gimmick. That is not saying it is primarily a gimmick or primarily a marketing ploy. That's not semantics. It's the difference between what was said and how it was interpreted.

Whether quotation marks were used or not, it was attributed to me.

I will reiterate, I am not saying, have never said, it was primarily a marketing ploy or primarily a gimmick. I've said it had some impressiveness to it, some legitimacy as a feature and it had some gimmickry to it or marketing strategy.

I've also said Elling builds fine boats for rough seas and conditions, but they're not the only semi-displacement boat that can handle such conditions.

I'm far more impressed by those who have been on them in rough seas and commented as to how well they performed than I am by the self righting exhibition. I've heard nothing but good things about them and to me those are far more indicative of ability to cross oceans than is the righting test.
 
No part of self righting is a gimmick, ..speak with any naval architect, it’s not very easy or very common to design a boat with self righting abilities....They are few and far between...Also “going on your merry way “ wasn’t the claim, surviving a rouge wave and remaining safe inside ( maybe a bit banged up) while waiting for rescue is preferred to floating around while your boat sinks ...
 
No part of self righting is a gimmick, ..speak with any naval architect, it’s not very easy or very common to design a boat with self righting abilities....They are few and far between...Also “going on your merry way “ wasn’t the claim, surviving a rouge wave and remaining safe inside ( maybe a bit banged up) while waiting for rescue is preferred to floating around while your boat sinks ...

I've had my coursework on the topic as well, but far from an expert. Interestingly enough the engineers and a naval architects I spoke to were mixed in their opinions. The majority were impressed with the righting. A couple were impressed with other aspects more then the righting. Two felt the test didn't truly show what would happen in bad conditions, one of those two actually there witnessing the demonstration. However, one who actually saw the drawings and detail felt the boat's ability to stay upright and to protect equipment and persons aboard was the best they'd seen on a boat that size.

Almost all though felt like with the design and construction of the boat, it being flipped was extremely unlikely so the righting ability not likely to ever really happen in real life. That was not intended by them to be a slight against the boat but praise for the overall construction and the center of gravity and the balance the boat had.

I'm hoping we never find out how it works in a real situation. To my knowledge, no owners have so far experienced anything requiring it to right itself. However, they have consistently praised the boat. If I was a potential buyer of a boat like Elling, I'd strongly consider buying Elling but it would be for many reasons other than it's righting ability.

There are a lot of reasons to consider the boat and sometimes the righting demonstration leads one away from all those other reasons. This thread was about seaworthiness and it's seaworthiness is impressive and that's without talking about a rogue wave flipping it, but it's addressing how it performs in very rough seas.

However, the righting demonstration got the boat a lot of attention and probably led many to then look at it and find out all it's other attributes, those far more likely to benefit them in actual use. I'm personally more interested in it's ability to handle rough seas without capsizing and it excels there.
 
You have pretty described Tony's Fleming 65 "Venture" which has crossed many oceans.



But have they? I’m not so sure. There are two boats, Venture 1 and Venture 2. I think one is US based and the other EU based. I actually don’t think they have the range. Maybe they could do the atlantic island hop. Newfoundland to Greenland, Greenland to Iceland, iceland to the Faros. I know they went the other way as far as Iceland, but that’s not that far. I think a Pacific crossing would be out.
 
But have they? I’m not so sure. There are two boats, Venture 1 and Venture 2. I think one is US based and the other EU based. I actually don’t think they have the range. Maybe they could do the atlantic island hop. Newfoundland to Greenland, Greenland to Iceland, iceland to the Faros. I know they went the other way as far as Iceland, but that’s not that far. I think a Pacific crossing would be out.

The 65' has 2000 nm range conservatively at 8 knots and can slow down and increase that. The 100% calculated range at 8 knots is just over 2500 nm. 7.5 knots at 5 gph.
 
About 3 years ago I spent some time on an E4 at the dock, but have never been out in the ocean on one. They are definitely nice, well built boats, With a well thought out interior. IMO for the price point there were better options out there. I also remember the engine room space being tight, which didn’t make a lot of sense for a long range cruiser. And, it had a Volvo.
 
About 3 years ago I spent some time on an E4 at the dock, but have never been out in the ocean on one. They are definitely nice, well built boats, With a well thought out interior. IMO for the price point there were better options out there. I also remember the engine room space being tight, which didn’t make a lot of sense for a long range cruiser. And, it had a Volvo.

When you're cramming 3 staterooms and a salon into a 49' boat with 14' beam but much narrower at most of it's length, doesn't leave you much room for engines.
 
The 65' has 2000 nm range conservatively at 8 knots and can slow down and increase that. The 100% calculated range at 8 knots is just over 2500 nm. 7.5 knots at 5 gph.

I'd cross in this boat if I wasn't paying the bills.
I've looked at those boats in Europe a number of times. They are great coastal cruisers.
But that are also different lifestyle boats than most of us on TF.

The owners of these boats don't work on them and wouldn't "waste" two weeks crossing an ocean.
 
This add points our that boats of 40 ft or so have been making crossings for many decades/

The first captain crossing the Atlantic Ocean under power

Arielle was built by Chantiers Navals Jouet & Cie. in France, from designs by Marin Marie. The hull was round bottom. Length overall 40 feet, beam 10 feet and tonnage 13. She had a two-ton keel. The sheer was continuous but forward, the nearly plumb stem gained an extra-foot of freeboard by a bulwark. Aft, the deck was sunk about 18 inches to form a small cockpit with big scuppers. In the cockpit there was a hatch for access to the stowage compartment below and the steering quadrant. In our days we would call this space a lazarette. A V-shaped raked coaming was set on deck forward to break any solid water that may find its way over the bow. Amidships there was an enclosed deckhouse, our modern pilot house. Further aft, there was a trunk cabin with the living quarters, very close to the layout of our pretty Selene Archer!
On a single engine for 22 days

Arielle was brought over from France aboard the liner Champlain several weeks before her departure from New York. Using an ingenious electric autopilot combined with a wind-vane system designed by himself and French engineer Casel, Marin Marie had sailed his yacht back from New York to Le Havre practically without touching the helm! The engine of Arielle was a bullet-proof French-made 4-cylinder Baudoin which worked day and night during twenty days. The Arielle, could bunker 5 tons of fuel and used only two third of it during the passage across the Atlantic Ocean via Nova Scotia. The Arielle cruise speed was 10 knots.
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Marin-Marie came from a family interested in things nautical. He also obtained a doctorate in law, and took classes at the École des Beaux-Arts in Paris. He did his share of voyaging while making a career as a renown painter and serving as an advisor for what was known as the French Line. A consultant for the Saint Nazaire Shipyard, he designed the stacks of the famous Normandie liner, adding a third one for aesthetic reasons only, which was eventually used as a kennel for the passenger’s dogs. In 1934, Marin Marie was appointed Peintre Official de la Marine, a rare distinction created in 1830.
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In 1946, one decade later, after the French captain’s accomplishment, Robert Beebe wrote in Rudder, a leading boating magazine of the time, about the concept of passagemaking under power. It was then that, following Marin Marie’s foot steps, he coined the word “passagemaker” as the term for ocean-crossing vessels. Beebe’s Passagemaker was built in Singapore and launched in 1963.
A few years ago only, M.Y. Furthur, a Selene 47 skippered by Cap. Brian Calvert was the first Selene yacht which has crossed the Pacific Ocean!
Marin Marie, Robert Beebe, both of them still inspire us at Selene Yachts, and they inspire our clients a
 
The owners of these boats don't work on them and wouldn't "waste" two weeks crossing an ocean.



I agree! I had a conversation with Tony Fleming a few years back at a boat show, and while I was talking the benefits of a Nordhavn single engine making a crossing, he stated he ships his boat to the cruising locations he films. Makes sense for someone with his resources. He constructs a fine cruiser.
 
I agree! I had a conversation with Tony Fleming a few years back at a boat show, and while I was talking the benefits of a Nordhavn single engine making a crossing, he stated he ships his boat to the cruising locations he films. Makes sense for someone with his resources. He constructs a fine cruiser.

Many larger boat owners and also send their boats across with just their crew and then fly across themselves. Now, we don't consider the two weeks a waste and fully intend to do it in a few years.
 

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