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Old 01-04-2019, 10:38 AM   #21
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Cool docking simulator...

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Originally Posted by kartracer View Post
Maybe I need docking lessons rather than bigger rudders
Thanks all for the money saving tips !!!!!!!

Found this simulator...seems pretty realistic.


http://theboatdocker.com/
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:22 AM   #22
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Yes, but only in fwd gear.
Right!

The biggest obstacle to controlling a boat in reverse is thinking that the rudder will help. Once you overcome that thought and realize that, especially with small rudders, they don't help you to steer in reverse, in fact they may help more by being left turned what you might think is the wrong way, your control in reverse will improve.
For example:
If I am backing down a long channel, I usually can determine which side the boat will naturally want to swing towards. So I put the rudder over to allow a burst of fwd gear from the engine farthest from that side to push the stern out. Then I will have prop walk from the engine closest to the near side that, all by itself, is often all I need for that control, but I also can give a burst of fwd on the other side to help out. While controlling in this fashion, smallish rudders pointing to the near side, but without any wash against them, continue to do nothing at all, thus being a benefit.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #23
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One thing for sure...

Every twin boat model may seem compatible in handling, but not really and some may be at the opposite end of handling performance.

Handling barges and barge trains witn boats designed to do it, from my limited experience is nothing at all like small pleasure boat handling....hull design and horsepower ratios, plus props and rudders on towboats rarely look like pleaxure boats.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:19 PM   #24
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we had a 38 Lindell that we had the rudder area just about doubled. I didn't notice any change in docking or performance but did help when trolling for salmon. The rudders were stainless and the builder had the larger rudders in stock it was a common mod for the owners that fished the boat.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:07 PM   #25
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Yes, but only in fwd gear.
So what? The objective is to move the butt of the boat laterally. And the emphasis is on the word "burst" which on a big boat yields minimal forward movement.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #26
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Youn should be able to do everything you need to do without touching the rudders or the throttles. Once that skill is down pat adding some rudder action can make things even easier.

Get away from the dock in calm conditions and practice spinning the boat with shifters only; notice how the boat moves with various combinations of shifting. Then back in a straight line again without rudders. If the boat turns a bit shift one side in and out of gear to straighten things out.

New boaters often stop the boat when docking instead of shifting one side to adjust direction or position. A stopped boat is not as easy to maneuver as a moving one.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:59 PM   #27
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One of the first things I teach is how to stop your boat and hold position in wind and current.

It is invaluable, especially in tight marinas where someone pulls out in front of you and you don't want to impale yourself on someones anchor.

I find it calming for a panicky boater who is struggling with docking, at least if they can stop and hold position, they feel in some control and can relax enough to try again.

I believe this is especially important with twins.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:18 PM   #28
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It seems to have been overlooked that the OP's boat is a lightly built, shallow draft vessel with extremely high windage and no keel. Sometimes you can't get there from here.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:39 PM   #29
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It seems to have been overlooked that the OP's boat is a lightly built, shallow draft vessel with extremyly high windage. Sometimes you can't get there from here.

I just had a look at some pics of "Bluewater" boats. You're not wrong BP. They may need more than twins to be nimble when docking even if they had larger rudders. Maybe a good candidate for a big set of thrusters.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:11 PM   #30
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Bluewaters are houseboats and if they are like the one we had on Lake Powell they are squirrelly wind blown pigs at the dock! Thank God there was no tide or current on the lake: the wind was enough trouble.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:16 PM   #31
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I just had a look at some pics of "Bluewater" boats. You're not wrong BP. They may need more than twins to be nimble when docking even if they had larger rudders. Maybe a good candidate for a big set of thrusters.
Any thruster, bow or stern would have to be of the "appendage" type. There is not enough hull to put in a tube.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:42 PM   #32
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Rudder does have effect turning a twin engine boat. Test it by rotating the boat with one engine fwd and the other in reverse. Repeat with rudders fully turned in the direction of the turn. On my boat at least, it makes for a noticeably quicker much tighter turn.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:10 AM   #33
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Since Mr. Firefly seems to be MIA I wall comment that my lady thinks I need a bigger rudder. Apparently, smaller high speed rudders are not adequate for longer slower cruises.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:33 AM   #34
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Good one! Hilarious!
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:55 AM   #35
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Hi,

Ruder makes bigger and more efficient can also be the risk of boat losing stability in some situations big surfing. Here the pilot vessel went this way and people died, too effective for the ruder and at the same time wave beats and rotates the excess ruder turned the boat up to the bottom ...

Learn from this, make more moderate moves ruder if crosses a big sharp wave.
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:23 AM   #36
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Then of course pulling in bow first does solve a bunch of problems in tight slips.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:21 AM   #37
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[quote=boatpoker;728459]it seems to have been overlooked that the op's boat is a lightly built, shallow draft vessel with extremely high windage and no keel. Sometimes you can't get there from here.[/qu!!!!!!

THANKS !!!!
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:21 PM   #38
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Considering the configuration of your boat with shallow draft and a lot of windage I'd consider a bow thruster. Bigger rudders would help some and flanking rudders would help more but they might cost as much or more than a thruster. There's also stern thrusters that kick up out of the way when not needed.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Considering the configuration of your boat with shallow draft and a lot of windage I'd consider a bow thruster. Bigger rudders would help some and flanking rudders would help more but they might cost as much or more than a thruster. There's also stern thrusters that kick up out of the way when not needed.
These boats are very lightly built, their hulls and structure are simply not strong enough for bigger or flanking rudders. The cost to make them so would be extreme. When lifting in a travel lift one can see the hull distort significantly unless spreaders are used. As one previous poster put it, think wide, flat, shallow houseboat hull.
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:02 PM   #40
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It would appear that some boat handling practice might be in order then?
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