Title transfer question

paulga · 09-29-2023, 07:29 PM

The boat has stayed in Virgina for about a decade, I need to transfer title to New Jersey. The broker told me the boat is USCG documented and does not have a title. they are waiting for a "letter of deletion" in the mail from USCG, then mail it together with the bill of sale and a "USCG certificate of documentation" to me for title transfer.

can someone who has experience tell me what documents are sufficient for title transfer to NJ in a similar case?

below is what's specified by the website https://www.nj.gov/mvc/vehicles/boating.htm

Provide properly assigned Manufacturers Certificate of Ownership (MCO), title, or if coming from a state that does not title: proof of ownership from seller (their registration) along with a notarized bill of sale (Documented vessels see separate instructions below.)

psneeld · 09-29-2023, 07:44 PM

If USCG Documented, the vessel no longer has a title and you don't need one, just a current documentation signed over to you.

If not current, then the previous owner has to rescind the USCG Documentation with the USCG and then you need to contact NJ what papers they will need to get it titled.

I would guess what you had linked should be good enough....

Applicant must visit a motor vehicle agency with:

A completed Universal Title Application (Form OS/SS-UTA)**
Completed Boat Registration Application Form (BA-51)
Proper identification (NJ Driver’s License, Non-driver ID, Passport or Birth Certificate.)
Certificate of Documentation (if customer will be keeping vessel documented) or deletion papers (if new owner will not be documenting vessel) from the USCG.
Official Coast Guard Bill of Sale

Any further questions...go to the USCG NVDC website and/or call them.

Comodave · 09-29-2023, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulga

The boat has stayed in Virgina for about a decade, I need to transfer title to New Jersey. The broker told me the boat is USCG documented and does not have a title. they are waiting for a "letter of deletion" in the mail from USCG, then mail it together with the bill of sale and a "USCG certificate of documentation" to me for title transfer.

can someone who has experience tell me what documents are sufficient for title transfer to NJ in a similar case?

below is what's specified by the website https://www.nj.gov/mvc/vehicles/boating.htm

Provide properly assigned Manufacturers Certificate of Ownership (MCO), title, or if coming from a state that does not title: proof of ownership from seller (their registration) along with a notarized bill of sale (Documented vessels see separate instructions below.)

If the boat is currently documented then all you have to do is have the owner/broker fill out a CG Bill of Sale, a special form, sign the current COD, Certificate of Documentation, over to you. You then send those 2 forms to the CG. It does not need to be deleted. If you are going to undocument the boat and title it in the state then you need to follow the process on the website for undocumentation. Then go to the state for a title. However if the boat is currently documented then I would stay with documentation and just transfer the boat to you. Then you MAY have to register the boat with the state, not sure about the laws in NJ, but that is also easy.

I am not sure that the broker is actually familiar with the process because it is simple to transfer a documented boat from one owner to another. I have done several boat transfers for our local marina since they are not sure how to do it.

You can Google National Vessel Documentation Center and the website has all the forms and instructions.

paulga · 09-29-2023, 08:37 PM

i'm not going to keep USCG documentation, so the broker has filed the deletion request.

for transfer of title, not sure if the title office would need the offcial letter of deletion, or just the bill of sale and the previous owner's certificate of doc is sufficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comodave

If the boat is currently documented then all you have to do is have the owner/broker fill out a CG Bill of Sale, a special form, sign the current COD, Certificate of Documentation, over to you. You then send those 2 forms to the CG. It does not need to be deleted. If you are going to undocument the boat and title it in the state then you need to follow the process on the website for undocumentation. Then go to the state for a title. However if the boat is currently documented then I would stay with documentation and just transfer the boat to you. Then you MAY have to register the boat with the state, not sure about the laws in NJ, but that is also easy.

I am not sure that the broker is actually familiar with the process because it is simple to transfer a documented boat from one owner to another. I have done several boat transfers for our local marina since they are not sure how to do it.

You can Google National Vessel Documentation Center and the website has all the forms and instructions.

psneeld · 09-29-2023, 08:40 PM

Refer back to post #2.

I think the only hang up is if there was a lapse in current documentation. If there is a lapse, the boat was in limbo for those years and they have to be accounted for.

I haven't run into that before but either or both NJ and the USCG may require some sort of confirmation the previous owner was in fact the owner during those years.

mvweebles · 09-29-2023, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulga

i'm not going to keep USCG documentation, so the broker has filed the deletion request.

Just curious, why not continue the USCG documentation?

Peter

paulga · 09-29-2023, 10:04 PM

I don't have plans to do international trips in the near future. keeping the doc has no marginal benefit.

Comodave · 09-29-2023, 10:20 PM

Personally I prefer having the boat documented since I don’t have to have the state registration numbers on the hull.

paulga · 09-29-2023, 10:40 PM

knowing it's the law, just curious would there be fines or adverse impact if the registration numbers are not painted on the bow below the rubrail?

Comodave · 09-29-2023, 10:48 PM

Don’t know NJ law so I don’t know.

psneeld · 09-30-2023, 05:39 AM

Have no idea what the fines could be, but it may be the inconvenience of the mess that you may regret. That said, you may never get stopped for no numbers as depending on the boat the Marine Police may just assume you are documented if not wearing numbers.

You still have to put the registration sticker on someplace....
\near the numbers.

Numbers can be done to look nice.

I just ordered a panel for my skiff (same 3" size for any boat), 2 sets with a 3rd spare and shipped to me $20 from BoatUS lettering.

Action · 10-03-2023, 05:00 PM

CG documentation is about having a well documented ownership trail.
Not about only about international travel.
When selling the boat, if the buyer is from out of state, transfer of ownership may be an issue if that buyer does not know the state law.

New Jersey may require some form of registration and a fee in addition to the CG documentation. (Washingtion State did back in the 80s) However the record of ownership of a vessel and if the vessel has a loan, (lien) is more clear if it is documented with the CG.

**Bacchus** · 10-03-2023, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulga

knowing it's the law, just curious would there be fines or adverse impact if the registration numbers are not painted on the bow below the rubrail?

I will caution that not having state registration #s properly displayed will be a potential flag for LEO to check whether the boat is in fact properly registered.

The inconvenience of being forced off the water until proper registration is complete may be larger than a $$ fine.

Portage_Bay · 10-03-2023, 09:52 PM

Washington state does require state registration of documented boats. Fees and excise tax are collected annually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Action

CG documentation is about having a well documented ownership trail.
Not about only about international travel.
When selling the boat, if the buyer is from out of state, transfer of ownership may be an issue if that buyer does not know the state law.

New Jersey may require some form of registration and a fee in addition to the CG documentation. (Washingtion State did back in the 80s) However the record of ownership of a vessel and if the vessel has a loan, (lien) is more clear if it is documented with the CG.

gatesharris · 10-06-2023, 03:55 PM

Just spent 6 months trying to title a USCG documented vessel in NC.

If it had stayed documented, would have taken one document.

The state title registration laws can be very cumbersome.

Had endless emails and expenses and rejected documents from the state.

No reason that I can see to not document it and many reasons to leave it documented.

The best reason is that if it is documented, you know the title is clear and you know that there are no liens.

Action · 10-06-2023, 04:08 PM

^^^ +1

Comodave · 10-06-2023, 04:45 PM

+2. I absolutely would leave it documented.

SeaLion · 10-06-2023, 04:50 PM

+3 for all the previously mentioned reasons.

Circumnavigator · 10-06-2023, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulga

i'm not going to keep USCG documentation, so the broker has filed the deletion request.

That's not smart. Even if you never go international, the person who buys from you may want to. I would hesitate to buy a boat over about 30' that wasn't documented. Not having a document will reduce your buyer pool.

Also, it's cool to not have numbers on the bow.

Jim

Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022 18,000 miles including trans-Atlantic The Fleet Tender Fintry
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- 23
?? Going back to sailing after Morning Light is sold.

psneeld · 10-06-2023, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatesharris

Just spent 6 months trying to title a USCG documented vessel in NC.

If it had stayed documented, would have taken one document.

The state title registration laws can be very cumbersome.

Had endless emails and expenses and rejected documents from the state.

No reason that I can see to not document it and many reasons to leave it documented.

The best reason is that if it is documented, you know the title is clear and you know that there are no liens.

Not exactly true about "no liens", there can be local ones not filed in Federal court or with the USCG that are still valid..... from what I have learned through the years.

https://www.marinetitle.com/vessel-d...%20digressions.

"Recordings on the state level and perhaps even foreign registries may also affect the vessel's ownership and lien standings. The Coast Guard makes it very clear that vessel documentation is not conclusive evidence of ownership with respect to any hidden claims or filing digressions."