Tipping etiquette...

[rwidman]

No one has to assign compensation value to persons or positions, because a capitalistic economy does it for you. Cops and soldiers are tremendously valuable, but offer soldier or cop jobs at $100K salary per year and you will have more qualified candidates than you can handle. Advertise job openings for a neurosurgeon paying the same $100K and will have a tougher time filling the position. That's why the cop makes less and the surgeon makes more.

I can't repipe my own house, but I'm not paying someone $450/hr to do it when I can get many good plumbers for a fraction of that amount. When my business needs legal advice or services, I've paid that $450/hr found it to be very cost-effective. That doesn't mean the lawyer is a better person than the plumber, it just means he completed the education and experience that qualifies him to do that specific work more effectively than others.

Back to the tipping question, life would be simpler if people were paid a fair wage and tipping wasn't necessary. I would rather you tell me my hotel room costs $200 per night and let me pay it, rather than say its $160/night plus I have to give cash to every hotel worker I encounter, for a total of $195.

Tipping can show appreciation, but it also becomes a form of bribery for special treatment. Pay extra and you are treated well, pay the listed price or fee and you are treated less well because someone else tipped more.

I tip because society expects it in the country where I live. That doesn't make it logical or even correct.

Well said!

 

[rwidman]

..................... It's common that restaurants show the amounts of possible tips based on 15, 18, and 20 percent of the bill, which includes up to nearly 10-percent sales tax.

And they usually calculate the suggested tip on the total bill including the tax.

And why is the tip based on the cost of the meal? It's just as much work to bring a burger as it is to bring a steak.

 

[BandB]

And why is the tip based on the cost of the meal? It's just as much work to bring a burger as it is to bring a steak.

Basing it on price of meal was simply a matter of a convenient calculation and it's reasonable most of the time.

Typically the level of service required at a burger place isn't the same as a steakhouse. However, I do often tip extra when it's an inexpensive meal. We also tip more in a fine restaurant when we have a large group and no alcohol purchases since our table then has a lower bill than the one adjacent on their 5th bottle of $100/bottle wine.

As an aside, have you seen some of the athlete's and entertainer's club bills when they get $50k in drinks and then tip $20k. Leonardo DiCaprio once spent $3 million on a bar bill for his birthday. 18 cases of champagne, some up to $250k per bottle. The article never said what he tipped though.

Forgetting the bar tabs, I have had incredible service in very inexpensive restaurants many times and I did try to reward the waitresses as I would have in a high priced fine dining restaurant based on them going far beyond normal expectations. I think often the level of service breakfast requires is more than the amount of the bill reflects.

I have minimum amounts I will tip and then everything beyond that is just what I feel is merited. Also any discounts or coupons considered. We ate one night at Chili's, total bill around $20. The service was great. The meal with no coupon would have been between $25 and $30, so I tipped $6.

 

[gaston]

So now I understand it tipping is just a feel good thing like giving beggars a few bucks and making sure everyone around you see's what your doing otherwise there's no reason to ?

Or is it just one of those feel good things that in fact dose nothing but maker the giver feel superior .

Thank god we don't have it

 

[cool beans]

I don't tip and have no plans to start outside of tipping waitstaff...or I guess any job that only paid in tips, like mates on a sport fishing charter.

You're hired to help dock my boat or pump out my tank or supervise taking on fuel and you get paid via my slips fees and taxes. Why should anyone get a tip for doing their job, that doesn't involve getting paid in tips?

Do you tape $5 to the top of your garbage can every week when the garbage man comes by? Or throw $20 at the installer whom you will end up paying $15000 to for a new central air unit in your house?

 

[hjorgan]

I tip well, as in the past my livelihood depended on tips received. Oh the college daze!

And I am known at the fuel dock, the dock hands know my name and say "Hey". They tell me what and where people are catching fish. Will let me linger at the fuel dock if it's not busy, to get a cocktail or something from the grill to go.

It's worth it in the long run to show appreciation for good service.

 

[smitty477]

Australia...

https://www.tripsavvy.com/is-tipping-mandatory-in-australia-1464392

 

[BandB]

So now I understand it tipping is just a feel good thing like giving beggars a few bucks and making sure everyone around you see's what your doing otherwise there's no reason to ?

Or is it just one of those feel good things that in fact dose nothing but maker the giver feel superior .

Thank god we don't have it

That is such total BS. We do it because we feel it is merited. No one around us ever knows what we do in a restaurant as it's just on the credit card receipt. We are seen at marinas but we do it discreetly there. Just because you don't do it, is no reason to insult those of us who do, and who do so gladly. It's not like giving to beggars either as it's given to people working to serve us and earning it.

 

[smitty477]

I tip well, as in the past my livelihood depended on tips received. Oh the college daze!

And I am known at the fuel dock, the dock hands know my name and say "Hey". They tell me what and where people are catching fish. Will let me linger at the fuel dock if it's not busy, to get a cocktail or something from the grill to go.

It's worth it in the long run to show appreciation for good service.

I tip as well for all reasonably good service at the docks.... and I am sure that your tips and happy demeanor are well appreciated by the folks working around you which is naturally responded to by them wanting to make sure you are treated as best as possible and your trips go well.
What is equally true is when the a boater with a foul attitude comes by and also never tips and has 'that' personality. What folks around our area do not realize is that their boat "Daddy's Dream" becomes well known as do the owners - and they also get special treatment.

 

[BandB]

What is equally true is when the a boater with a foul attitude comes by and also never tips and has 'that' personality.

Reputations are earned. One of the funniest ones I know is very well known at Miami Beach. The owner is in his 60's and does not believe in tipping. His wife, in her 30's, however does. She tips everyone very generously and also has the crew do so if she's not there at the time. At this point with him, it's nothing but stubbornness as he clearly knows that indirectly he's tipping all the time. He's otherwise a very likable man. They chartered one time for two weeks when their boat was in the yard, a bill over $250,000. The normal tip is 5-15%. 8 person crew and he tipped $4000. She tipped separately for $36000. Laughed and said he had problems with where the decimal went. We have a friend who is a friend of the wife and the wife says now it's just a fun game he likes to play. Charter crews do occasionally get stiffed. The tipping practice for them is worldwide, not just a US thing. When they get stiffed, those guests have a very difficult time chartering again and never through that broker or agency.

 

[smitty477]

Reputations are earned. One of the funniest ones I know is very well known at Miami Beach. The owner is in his 60's and does not believe in tipping. His wife, in her 30's, however does. She tips everyone very generously and also has the crew do so if she's not there at the time. At this point with him, it's nothing but stubbornness as he clearly knows that indirectly he's tipping all the time. He's otherwise a very likable man. They chartered one time for two weeks when their boat was in the yard, a bill over $250,000. The normal tip is 5-15%. 8 person crew and he tipped $4000. She tipped separately for $36000. Laughed and said he had problems with where the decimal went. We have a friend who is a friend of the wife and the wife says now it's just a fun game he likes to play. Charter crews do occasionally get stiffed. The tipping practice for them is worldwide, not just a US thing. When they get stiffed, those guests have a very difficult time chartering again and never through that broker or agency.

Not only a good story but very telling as well.
Around here most folks do not notice that most of the dock folks are pretty young and rely on tips over a short season.
Like I mentioned reasonable and nice boaters who do not tip get treated well and boaters that are reasonable and do tip get treated real well.
Then there are 'those' few other boaters that fall outside of that category.
Many of these young dock hand over the entire LI sound know each other over the years - and the text regularly. So when a boater is exceptionally nice they forward that along - as well as when they are exceptionally not nice and cheap.
Often they have the option of tying someone up in a variety of spots and offering specific electric , water access, egress points and things like that.
Behavior at one stop most definitely follows them along their trip - they may chalk it up to luck (bad luck) but their rep follows them along.

 

[BandB]

Around here most folks do not notice that most of the dock folks are pretty young and rely on tips over a short season..

Dock workers around here work hard. Most are young. Many trying to pay for school. Others with a spouse and young child. We give attention to the young people not trying so it makes me feel very good to be able to help one deserving just a little bit. My wife and the girls often with us, find out life stories of everyone. It's really nice to get to know them a little.

Over half our employees are 25 and under, just like many dock hands. I hear people talk about lazy, bad workers, no good. Each generation talks about the next much like the previous talked about them. Well, I think there are so many incredible young people. They're not the generation that's created a mess and they will make things better. They're the ones who give me hope and that includes the dock hand at the marina. We know one who is about to get his degree after 7 years of part time college and full time dock hand. We have many employees working on their education. Notice the good young people. It will make you feel a lot better about the world, about life in general.

 

[ranger58sb]

So now I understand it tipping is just a feel good thing like giving beggars a few bucks and making sure everyone around you see's what your doing otherwise there's no reason to ?

Or is it just one of those feel good things that in fact dose nothing but maker the giver feel superior .

Neither, in our case.

When restaurant wait staff (for instance) are only paid $2.30/hour (or whatever it is) they're not really being well-compensated by management for the amount of work they do. I can't change local practices, but I can try to help wait staff get by.

The situation is also much more complicated than simple wages. There's a whole cost/benefit/profitability tail associated with changing restaurant wage structure... and many small businesses wouldn't survive without a major paradigm shift.

Dock hands similar; even at minimum wage, not easy to actually live on that.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't tip and have no plans to start outside of tipping waitstaff...or I guess any job that only paid in tips, like mates on a sport fishing charter.

You're hired to help dock my boat or pump out my tank or supervise taking on fuel and you get paid via my slips fees and taxes. Why should anyone get a tip for doing their job, that doesn't involve getting paid in tips?

Do you tape $5 to the top of your garbage can every week when the garbage man comes by? Or throw $20 at the installer whom you will end up paying $15000 to for a new central air unit in your house?

No funding stream from taxes to dock hands, at least around here.

And yes, we do sorta-kinda tip the garbage/recycle guys (Christmas gift certs for food)... and the post lady (ditto)... and the installers and other tradesman (usually some cash for "lunch on us"). We don't usually tip for doing their job; we tip for doing their job well, usually over and above, often with a smile...

-Chris

 

[Robin]

I like the European idea of Servis Compris, service included, pricing. I will then tip for anything over and above what is a normal service. Earn it not expect it! signs as seen sometimes in the USA like 'minimum tip $$$' will not work with me, I am thick skinned. We tipped our poop pump boat guy annually at Christmas with his prior agreement, not every time. He came weekly, often when we were not present and sometimes when the tank was empty anyway.

 

[dhays]

So now I understand it tipping is just a feel good thing like giving beggars a few bucks and making sure everyone around you see's what your doing otherwise there's no reason to ?

Or is it just one of those feel good things that in fact dose nothing but maker the giver feel superior

Yeah, you don't have a clue.

I imagine that the North American style of tipping would seem very odd and hard to understand for those outside of NA. It frankly is a bit odd and not necessarily internally consistent. That may explain why you have such a hard time grasping it. Even those of us in NA can be confused by it as is evident in this discussion.

 

[rwidman]

I don't tip and have no plans to start outside of tipping waitstaff...or I guess any job that only paid in tips, like mates on a sport fishing charter..............

You may have your own justifications for not tipping and they may make sense you you but to the people expecting a tip, you are just a cheap bastard.

As I stated above, I think employers should be paying employees for what their skills are worth but the tipping thing is the custom in this country and your refusal to tip is not going to change this.

That makes you a "cheap bastard", not a crusader.

 

[cool beans]

You may have your own justifications for not tipping and they may make sense you you but to the people expecting a tip, you are just a cheap bastard.

As I stated above, I think employers should be paying employees for what their skills are worth but the tipping thing is the custom in this country and your refusal to tip is not going to change this.

That makes you a "cheap bastard", not a crusader.

Oh, well thank you, I guess? I'm not sure where the Crusader label came from...not trying to change anything, prove anything, change anyone's mind, shuffle up the system, move mountains, etc...just answering the OP's post.

It might have been missed in my post, but I do tip waitstaff and deck hands since that is basically their pay and how that system works. And I have tipped people who have done an exceptionally well job at something, but it's never a general part of every transaction (which it sounds like people here tip "in general").

To me, my issue in part, is that people now EXPECT tips...for pretty much everything. To me a tip was a reward for exceptional effort. I'm expecting the tip jar to show up in the checkout line at Walmart for ringing me up and bagging my stuff

No funding stream from taxes to dock hands, at least around here.

I think this thread evolved to include city services, hence the taxes comment.

And yes, we do sorta-kinda tip the garbage/recycle guys (Christmas gift certs for food)... and the post lady (ditto)

I did that to, when I lived in a house. But I don't think that is the type of tipping being discussed in this thread. To me that was just a nice gesture for the holidays.

... and the installers and other tradesman (usually some cash for "lunch on us"). We don't usually tip for doing their job; we tip for doing their job well, usually over and above, often with a smile...

I hope I'm not old enough to get away with saying "back in my day"

But, back in my day, that was just what was expected from my employer...doing my job well, with a good attitude, better then our competitor WAS my job. That's what I got paid for! Showing up on time, during business hours, for warranty work (or something else) that you've already paid for is just part of the job. Why a tip would be expected (given or received) just doesn't compute.

On the other hand, if it was a weekend emergency and I was begged by my boss to go to a house to fix an oven timer, then if a tip was involved, it was a nice bonus. And I've given tips for similar situations as well. But those were rare occasions, and exceptional work and circumstances are rare

 

[rclarke246]

"T.I.P. To Insure Promptness"; The Origin of Words & Phrases by Wm & Mary Morris

I like to think I'm a generous tipper and here are my reasons, in order:

1) I respect "working" people, especially these days. There are far too many "entitlements" providing incentives for the able-bodied to sit on their duffs, so I like the people on the "front-lines", the essence of our economy.

2) I tend to over-tip to help account for the cheap-skates that don't.

3) The extra cash probably matters more to the service person than it does to me.

4) I believe that I may get better service or consideration under certain circumstances but do NOT demand nor expect it.

 

[Simi 60]

I hope I'm not old enough to get away with saying "back in my day"

But, back in my day, that was just what was expected from my employer...doing my job well, with a good attitude, better then our competitor WAS my job. That's what I got paid for! Showing up on time, during business hours, for warranty work (or something else) that you've already paid for is just part of the job. Why a tip would be expected (given or received) just doesn't compute.

This^^^

The reward was you had a job tomorrow.

Do crap work, don't be prompt or have a crap attitude and you are looking for a new job.

 

[smitty477]

This^^^

The reward was you had a job tomorrow.

Do crap work, don't be prompt or have a crap attitude and you are looking for a new job.

Yup - that is the way I have always worked these 35+ years and still do.
But I never saw that as having anything to do with tipping or not tipping.
Still don't.

 

[Edelweiss]

I've always thought it was up to each person to determine whether you tip, how much and when.

But what galls me:

(1) Is when I'm with people who are demanding and/or rude to waiters/service people, unduly impatient when the establishment is obviously very busy, routinely sends their food back for little or no reason and never say "thank you" to the staff. If you don't think the food is good, don't dress down to the waitperson, complain to the owner or company. If the food and service are exceptional, tell and thank the waiter and write a note to the owner.

(2) When I hear that the owner/manager keeps the tips, demands a share of the tips or keeps the credit card tips. If I find that to be true, I never go back to that establishment and tell my friends. (I'm careful with this one, because pooling tips between all the help is sometimes not popular among waitstaff, but if that's the work agreement, so be it.)

Now that I got that off my back I feel so much better

Time for a beer

 

[BruceK]

Australia...

https://www.tripsavvy.com/is-tipping-mandatory-in-australia-1464392

Reasonably accurate.
Restaurant prices in Australia are higher than US/CAN. But,the staff are properly paid out of the higher revenue, they won`t starve if you don`t tip.
So,US/CAN tip staff at a higher level, we pay more to dine, our restaurants pay staff properly, with tips US/CAN staff probably get about the same result. I`m guessing it pretty much balances out, but maybe US/CAN staff are encouraged to try a little harder.

 

[markpierce]

There is little "dock service" here except for fellow boaters occasionally offering a helping hand to dock (which I usually decline). Almost all marina employees are government employees (who are there to collect the fuel or docking bill) or it's self-service. Seen no need to tip dockside here.

 

[Drake]

So now I understand it tipping is just a feel good thing like giving beggars a few bucks and making sure everyone around you see's what your doing otherwise there's no reason to ?

Or is it just one of those feel good things that in fact dose nothing but maker the giver feel superior .

Thank god we don't have it

No offense, but I think that's a terrible attitude. I tip because I am fortunate enough to be able to, and I appreciate someone's help in making my admittedly indulgent lifestyle a little easier on me. I sure don't feel superior, but blessed. And if it's possible to do it without anyone else noticing, that's what I do.

If you don't feel inclined to tip, by all means don't. But please don't presume to impugn my motives if I do.

 

[Tom.B]

To me, my issue in part, is that people now EXPECT tips...for pretty much everything. To me a tip was a reward for exceptional effort. I'm expecting the tip jar to show up in the checkout line at Walmart for ringing me up and bagging my stuff

I would love to know how you came to this outrageous conclusion since I and pretty sure you don't work for tips. Who is asking you, or demanding from you, tips for average jobs? Most of the people we are talking about tipping are people that may not expect it. The fact that you only tip people you are "supposed to", doesn't help your case.

 

[BandB]

There is little "dock service" here except for fellow boaters occasionally offering a helping hand to dock (which I usually decline). Almost all marina employees are government employees (who are there to collect the fuel or docking bill) or it's self-service. Seen no need to tip dockside here.

Maybe if you started tipping you'd get some service? lol (clearly meant as joke)

Seriously, it's a factor of locale. Many of us boat where the dockhands provide great service and are willing to go the extra mile if you need it.

 

[cool beans]

I would love to know how you came to this outrageous conclusion since I and pretty sure you don't work for tips. Who is asking you, or demanding from you, tips for average jobs? Most of the people we are talking about tipping are people that may not expect it. The fact that you only tip people you are "supposed to", doesn't help your case.

What exactly is outrageous? As for jumping to conclusions, you are spot on sir! I have never worked in an industry that pays tips as part of a wage. I did however work for 2.5 years as an appliance technician in the early/mid 2000's that would occasionally have tips sent my way. Most were refused, some were insulting. Fun fact, the 3 guys I would occasionally help with deliveries didn't give 2 turds about any tips they received. Yes, they would grin ear to ear and layer on the platitudes as cash was coming their way...but one guy would even complain about those "cheap, rich white people"

Just my experience. No one is demanding or asking for anything. But, at the end of some transactions I've witness the same body language I saw my delivery buddies use to coerce a little extra out of the owner. I probably should have worded my "expecting tips" phrase better, it was a little over the top. Expecting to tip creating an expectation to receive tips. If I recall correctly, the original posters question was about an expectation to tip vs being the only that wasn't...

I'm not sure how or why you came up with the idea I'm trying to build a case for anything...what that case might be? And how was I building for or against it? All I was doing was answering the OP question and now trying to keep any quoted responses in the context of that original post

 

[Robin]

When I (Brit)was working in New York many years ago and had my (American) wife travelling with me, we were residents at a Manhattan hotel for 10 days. Meals in the restaurant were not included and had to be paid for separately, fair enough. We only used the restaurant for breakfasts. One day we were served cracked cups of luke warm stewed bitter coffee by a grumpy waiter who took dirty look exception to being asked to replace the cracked cups and to make fresh coffee. I had to go fetch a refill myself as he pointedly ignored us. Uncharacteristically I did not add a tip to the bill when I signed it to be charged to our room. MY american wife was incensed but I stuck to my guns, Why was that crap service worthy of a tip? Imagine my annoyance later in the day, having left her at the hotel whilst I went to a business meeting, to discover that as soon as I left she had handed the waiter a $10 cash tip.

 

[dhays]

Robin, I have been known to not tip when the service has been poor. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Now, my wife too has a more difficult withholding a tip.

Btw,this has rarely happened. Partly because I don't hold a server responsible for thing which they can't control.